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Boring Boring Lambert.

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This from Villa Talk Forum.

Football is an entertainment industry. This rubbish at the moment is not entertaining. Villa Park is going to empty at this rate. 

 

I''m willing to accept that we may have a transitional period here and that the football will follow. But if we stick with this style of football for longer than necessary, I''m not interested.

 

I was really looking forward to this season and have been to five matches. We''re dishing up long-ball crap and I think we have ridden our luck so far too! It isn''t what I expected at all.

 

I thought we''d kick on from the end of last season but no end of freak results (Man City) can mask the agricultural approach we''re taking.

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lol you should check the thread I did the other day "we are not unique2 brings up the same points.

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[quote user="Nexus_Canary"]You reckon they will do us a swap ?

[/quote]You still don''t get it do you? Lambert had taken us as far as he could and he knew it. He wont be coming back not this year not ever it''s time to let go.

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Lambert hasn''t won 2 consecutive home games since he was there, Hughton is already on it

Statistics, who''d have (believed/pay attention to) them?

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It is quite interesting how the fortunes of the two clubs (us and Villa) seem quite close. Both clubs have had a big change in an attempt to kick on to a new phase but both are struggling to do much more than tread water. Despite the polar opposite approaches and attitudes of the managment teams. I have to say i expected Villa to be doing better than they are this season. But Benteke seems to be having the all too familiar second season syndrome. Bursts on to the scene, then goes flat. Not unlike Michu, Sessegnon. While the Lambert philosophy still doesn''t seem to be sitting easily with the rest of the team. You could say the same about the Hughton philosophy here. How long with they give Lambert i wonder and who long will they except bottom half finishes at Villa Park? Same question here too. Despite the respective ''size'' of our clubs, i don''t expect McNally to put up with bottom half finishes any longer than Lerner. Who will be sacked first!?

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What is this fascination over managers being sacked? Both Lambert and Hughton are doing pretty good jobs. They''re probably both more likely to achieve a top half finish than be sacked! Last season Hughton was just 2 points or 1 place away from top half. Right now he''s 4 places and 3 points away from top half. Last season Lambert was just 5 places and 5 points away from top half and this season he''s currently 1 point and 1 place away.

 

Hughton and Lambert are neck and neck with their records since they took over their clubs. Hughton sneaked in front at the weekend. His record at Norwich is 58 points from 51 games while Lambert''s at Villa is 57 points from 51 games. I think they''re both doing a good job.

 

 

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Lambert was/is a God to me, but that era is sadly over now, we must move on to a new one..........he has!

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I like what you said their Nutty however one of the two managers completely out thinks\ is more tactically aware than the other........at least when they play each other. if the slate was wiped clean and we''d never had either manager and was offered one or the other. I know exactly which one I''d pick....... the one that beats the other consistently when they play each other.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

What is this fascination over managers being sacked? Both Lambert and Hughton are doing pretty good jobs. They''re probably both more likely to achieve a top half finish than be sacked! Last season Hughton was just 2 points or 1 place away from top half. Right now he''s 4 places and 3 points away from top half. Last season Lambert was just 5 places and 5 points away from top half and this season he''s currently 1 point and 1 place away.

Hughton and Lambert are neck and neck with their records since they took over their clubs. Hughton sneaked in front at the weekend. His record at Norwich is 58 points from 51 games while Lambert''s at Villa is 57 points from 51 games. I think they''re both doing a good job.

[/quote]

I''ve posed a number of questions in my post nutty and you''ve only picked up on the one at the end. I''m saying there are interesting parallels as i think are you and your stats back up how close they are. The interest for me is in the very different approaches and very similar outcomes.

Having said that, your stats also point out that both their returns have hardly been stellar, with neither doing much better than a point a game. So your assertion that they are both more likely to get top half finishes than be sacked is one that could be argued. Managerial sackings are a fact of life in the PL as we know and this is the other intersting aspect of this in that expectations at Norwich and Villa have gone in opposite directions in the last 5 years, to the point where, with both teams under-performing, it''s not immediately obvious which would be moved to a change first if both Hughton and Lambert continued with their current records.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

 

Hughton and Lambert are neck and neck with their records since they took over their clubs. Hughton sneaked in front at the weekend. His record at Norwich is 58 points from 51 games while Lambert''s at Villa is 57 points from 51 games. I think they''re both doing a good job.

 

 

[/quote]

 

Best stat I''ve seen in weeks.

 

I wonder if Lambert had stayed and only had 58 points from his past 51 games would there would be a Lambert Out brigade?

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[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

What is this fascination over managers being sacked? Both Lambert and Hughton are doing pretty good jobs. They''re probably both more likely to achieve a top half finish than be sacked! Last season Hughton was just 2 points or 1 place away from top half. Right now he''s 4 places and 3 points away from top half. Last season Lambert was just 5 places and 5 points away from top half and this season he''s currently 1 point and 1 place away.

Hughton and Lambert are neck and neck with their records since they took over their clubs. Hughton sneaked in front at the weekend. His record at Norwich is 58 points from 51 games while Lambert''s at Villa is 57 points from 51 games. I think they''re both doing a good job.

[/quote]

I''ve posed a number of questions in my post nutty and you''ve only picked up on the one at the end. I''m saying there are interesting parallels as i think are you and your stats back up how close they are. The interest for me is in the very different approaches and very similar outcomes.

Having said that, your stats also point out that both their returns have hardly been stellar, with neither doing much better than a point a game. So your assertion that they are both more likely to get top half finishes than be sacked is one that could be argued. Managerial sackings are a fact of life in the PL as we know and this is the other intersting aspect of this in that expectations at Norwich and Villa have gone in opposite directions in the last 5 years, to the point where, with both teams under-performing, it''s not immediately obvious which would be moved to a change first if both Hughton and Lambert continued with their current records.

[/quote]

 

I really struggle with some of the expectations shown on here. Top half is probably 1.2 points per game. WBA were less than 1.3 points per game last season. You need to be at least a Liverpool or Everton to do any better. What expectations do you hold a1?

 

 

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I had a glance at Villa talk and it looks pretty much the same argument and counter-argument as this board. Seems like all football supporters expect more than on average, can be achieved.

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The question I find myself asking, is how come Lambert, known for his exciting and swashbuckling style has changed his approach with Villa? Is this a sign he feels the time has come for maturer, more long-term tactics, an adjustment to the personnel he has (though surely its ''his'' -sorry His- team now?), an adjustment to the type of job he feels he needs to do, or was this style simply a product of his Norwich era? Does anyone know enough about his time at Colchester and Wycombe (and Livingston if you want) to comment on whether his style with us was typical or not? Has he simply returned to default at Villa? Is he still looking for young and hungry?

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]The question I find myself asking, is how come Lambert, known for his exciting and swashbuckling style has changed his approach with Villa? Is this a sign he feels the time has come for maturer, more long-term tactics, an adjustment to the personnel he has (though surely its ''his'' -sorry His- team now?), an adjustment to the type of job he feels he needs to do, or was this style simply a product of his Norwich era? Does anyone know enough about his time at Colchester and Wycombe (and Livingston if you want) to comment on whether his style with us was typical or not? Has he simply returned to default at Villa? Is he still looking for young and hungry?[/quote]

Lambert conducted a first class exercise in guerilla warfare to keep us up 2011/2012. Changing tactics and personnel all the time gave the opposition little chance to get a handle on what our players were doing.

That effect was starting to fade towards the end of the season because other teams were sussing us out.

Hughton took on the role at a time when we were a known quantity when Lambert had obviously made the judgement that we couldn''t survive long term. He got us 11th when everyone outside the club was predicting ''2nd season syndrome''.

Third season, we''re roughly where we were last season. The difference is I think we haven''t hit our peak by a long-shot this season.

She''ll be roight.

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]The question I find myself asking, is how come Lambert, known for his exciting and swashbuckling style has changed his approach with Villa? Is this a sign he feels the time has come for maturer, more long-term tactics, an adjustment to the personnel he has (though surely its ''his'' -sorry His- team now?), an adjustment to the type of job he feels he needs to do, or was this style simply a product of his Norwich era? Does anyone know enough about his time at Colchester and Wycombe (and Livingston if you want) to comment on whether his style with us was typical or not? Has he simply returned to default at Villa? Is he still looking for young and hungry?[/quote]

Lambert is facing the same problems at Villa as is happening here.   An approach needed to develop the club into more than just an up and at ''em, give it a go style - better players, capable of better football and a more grown up attitude to the realities of life in a division so divided because of the wealth factor.  So Hughton and Lambert are trying to achieve the same thing.  Both struggling a bit to get things working well every week.    Villa, who incidentally have only scored four goals in two months, are in exactly the same boat as us and similar to West Ham and most other mid to lower table clubs.   The so called swashbuckling style was  not evident in every match at Norwich, there were quite a few no shows and poor team selection and tactics when he was here.   So too you could say Hughton''s time here has been littered with some terrific performances.    Football is a mixed bag and you have to take the rough with the smooth.  Lambert''s style at Norwich was to do with timing.  Ambitious, a great club itching to do well and Grant Holt ready and waiting at the peak of his career (thanks to Gunn).   A perfect storm.   He is now up against it at a so called "bigger" club and the pressure on him is increased.  I''m sure he will adapt - and is doing - much as Hughton is doing.  Both clubs trying to find the right formula that will give them consistency in a division where every team is dangerous, from top to bottom. 

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The Premier League has become boring. We are bored, the villa fans are bored and the spurs fans are bored, and if look look at other teams forums it would be fair to say that a lot of them are bored. Conclusion? We see far to much football with it being shoved down our throats season after season and mid table mediocrity as put by Mcnally is plain boring.

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Lambert is was and always will be the Messiah. Never had I has so much confidence going into a game as when he was in charge. I would have him back in a shot. Anyone who disagrees is a binner.

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What could make the game more interesting would to be have fireworks go off at the side of the pitch every time somebody kicks a ball, as well as nude cheerleader in yellow and green body paint and maybe a human cannonball to be launched across the pitch every time a goal is scored. This would allow the game to continue to be played in whatever fashion the managers feel to get the best outcome for them while satiating anyone there with a limited attention span.

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[quote user="Canary from waveney valley"]Lambert is was and always will be the Messiah. Never had I has so much confidence going into a game as when he was in charge. I would have him back in a shot. Anyone who disagrees is a binner.[/quote]

Oh the irony

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In many ways you are almost all right in part. Lambert was a wonderful manager and his Glasgow gambler''s approach was thrilling and historically unusual. His messianic up-and-at-em approach made believers of average players and sleepy fans. Going all out to win was bold, belligerent and beautiful.

It was however, LDC''s perfect storm of lower leagues, lower standards, starting as a rare big fish in a small 3rd division pond. Holt and Hoolahan at that level. The first year in the prem was a no-lose continuation of the policy and was as good a strategy as any for that particular year. Expectations were zero and we were all high on the excitement of it all.

He left because he was not only a Glasgow gambler, but also someone well able to calculate the best odds for his own career.

To judge Chris Hughtom against any of that is grossly unfair. He has been faced with a fundamentally different challenge, one that Lambert felt was beyond the club (and as a corollary, the players and himself). Second season survival - however achieved - was a club-changing success that few inside football and outside Norfolk expected. Hughton did brilliantly and made us £100m. Ironically I decry the cult of manager as lightning rod for success and failure, but, just as Lam err was one of the few with the chutzpah to keep us up season one, just Hufhton was perhaps one of the few who could have remodelled a ramshackle defence into a unit capable of many, many clean sheets and a notable survival.

The irony now is that it is not norwich''s football that is boring, it is the essentially passive nature of the games due to the financial and playing resource disparities between member clubs. Staying boringly in the premier league for a few seasons would have been utopia just a very short time ago - it was certainly McNally''s dream for the club. This is not little old Norwich or costa del Norwich, it is the realpolitik of the structure we find ourselves in.

From a technical and tactical point of view our football now is vastly more sophisticated now than it has ever been, with far better players than we gave ever had. It is not end-to-end exciting, gambling football that we played through the leagues, but such football has not existed in Italy - or most other developed nations. The painful truth is that it does not exist elsewhere because it is unintelligent, low percentage football that cedes possession too easily. England have long got excited by territory, balls in the box, fast, direct football and the constant desire to try and score a goal. This simply doesn''t work often enough and is a poor percentage option. The irony is that Lambert was a gambler who could afford to attack given the circumstances and level he found himself at. Any intelligent gambler plays the odds now and does not attack, rather they retain possession, shape and look for small margins in their favour to win games.

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We had better possession and pass completion figures during Lambert''s season than we did during Hughton''s, but don''t let facts get in the way of you making up your own little reality as per usual.

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I miss the thrilling excitement of the Lambert era, but our (and his) circumstances have changed.

Much of the dissatisfaction understandably laments a period in our history that will not be repeated. Our reward is a period of managed stability in one of the top leagues in the world, with riches beyond all others. The OP makes the entirely valid point that Lambert is now criticised for being boring, something some find impossible to comprehend. It was the alchemy of time and place for all.

The truth is that the manager has a relatively small impact, in academic studies it has been predicted at about 15%, for the finest exponents. Rather than the timing if substitutions, The manager who spends finances well is considered a great asset and this is the area where the manager has real impact over the business.

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