Canary Poirot 1 Posted December 5, 2013 A lot of fans who continue to support the continued managing of Norwich by Chris Hughton often point out that Hoots guided us to 11th last season, a commendable performance. While that outcome is true, it does disguise the fact that we engaged in a dire relegation battle with 2 games of the season to go until Wigan failed to get the points, and we went on to win our final two games and fly up the table to 11th. Contrast that with Fulham. They were sitting safe with 6 games of the season to go in midtable and conspired to lose 5 of their final 6 games and ended up finishing 12th, 1 point behind us. So overall, you could argue Jol performed almost as well as Hughton in the Premiership last season. Both teams bombed out of the FA Cup in the 4th round, us disgracefully at home to Luton (of non-league fame) and Fulham more respectively, albeit in a hammering, away at Man Utd. We did much better than Fulham in the League Cup, making it all the way to the quarter finals before being hammered at home by Paul Lambert''s Villa. Fulham went out in the second round at Sheffield Wednesday. So overall, a very slight better performance by Hughton compared to Jol, but not by much. Roll on this season. At the time of his sacking, Jol managed to accumulate 10 points for Fulham, 4 less than Hughton. Again, a very slight underperformance compared to Hughton. Yet Jol has now been sacked, and Hughton continues to hang on. The question therefore must be raised, as Hughton''s performance is only marginally better, surely in the next couple of weeks he too will be shown the door? It seems inevitable - after all, just look at these recent away results, all defeats, leading to a shipping of 22 goals in 5 matches for 3 goals scored. Not great for a manager supposedly strong on defensive set up. 4th December: Liverpool 5 - 1 Norwich 23rd November: Newcastle 2 - 1 Norwich2nd November: Man City 7 - 0 Norwich29th October: Man Utd 4 - 0 Norwich (League Cup)19th October: Arsenal 4 - 1 Norwich Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zak Van Burger 0 Posted December 5, 2013 You say "Almost as good as" and I say "worse."Now what were you saying about Jols record being worse than Hughtons?[:D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Canary Poirot 1 Posted December 5, 2013 Jol has been marginally worse than Hughton over the past 15 months. He accumulated 5 less points than Hughton has over that period. He''s been sacked. Hughton hasn''t. That''s a very marginal difference in performance but very substantial different outcomes for the managers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,160 Posted December 5, 2013 Also Jol had a much bigger budget than Hughton with a squad assembled over a much longer period in the Prem. but despite this he had conspired to have Fulham solidly in the drop zone for some time now.That''s why he had been sacked and Hughton hasn''t. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zak Van Burger 0 Posted December 5, 2013 [quote user="Canary Poirot"] He accumulated 5 less points than Hughton has over that period. He''s been sacked. Hughton hasn''t.[/quote]Do you reckon Paul Lambert the Aston Villa manager needs to watch his back then because he''s only two points off Chris Hughton over this period despite having spent the better part of £80m per year on wages alone and having two £20m strikers to call upon? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CambridgeCanary 0 Posted December 5, 2013 What exactly is your point Poirot? Jol was sacked and so Hughton should be too? Or Jol was unlucky and Hughton would even more so?Since we are not Fulham, how does any comparison help? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted December 5, 2013 From the clubs around us last season : - Pardew 51 games 64 ptsAllardyce 51 games 59 pointsHughton 51 games 58 pointsLambert 51 games 57 pointsJol 51 games 53 points I think the rest changed their managers during that period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warren Hill 0 Posted December 5, 2013 Well that''s clear.Get Pardew in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,718 Posted December 5, 2013 Surely Jol was sacked because Fulham are one of the Premierships big boys ? Well they did thrash us scoring five goals in the process. I do note however that the Apologists have us down to get points off them this season but what the reasoning is for that goodness knows. [:|] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warren Hill 0 Posted December 5, 2013 Might as well not bother turning up then, eh Til? Who are these apologists that have us down to get points off them?I don''t think we have a divine right to get points from anyone. Certainly not a team with the kind of talent that Fulham can field. Parker, Ruiz, Berbatov etc Players like that would literally WALK into our first 11. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,718 Posted December 5, 2013 [quote user="Warren Hill"]Might as well not bother turning up then, eh Til? Who are these apologists that have us down to get points off them? I don''t think we have a divine right to get points from anyone. Certainly not a team with the kind of talent that Fulham can field. Parker, Ruiz, Berbatov etc Players like that would literally WALK into our first 11.[/quote]You are Chris Hughton and I claim my £5. Blimey bigging up a team of old pensioners like that sounds similar to a CH pre match press conference. [:D] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Warren Hill 0 Posted December 5, 2013 No, you''re right. Bradley Johnson is better than Scott Parker. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted December 5, 2013 [quote user="TIL 1010"]Surely Jol was sacked because Fulham are one of the Premierships big boys ? Well they did thrash us scoring five goals in the process. I do note however that the Apologists have us down to get points off them this season but what the reasoning is for that goodness knows. [:|][/quote] Who are these apologists and when did they have us down to get points against Fulham? What I do remember is all the people saying we wouldn''t beat Palace because we never do. Which of course wasn''t true. However to find our last win against Fulham you''d have to go back to 1986. Which is even further than West Ham last month when we beat them for the first time since 1994. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Posted December 5, 2013 Seems to me you love a straw man TIL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,718 Posted December 5, 2013 [quote user="nutty nigel"][quote user="TIL 1010"]Surely Jol was sacked because Fulham are one of the Premierships big boys ? Well they did thrash us scoring five goals in the process. I do note however that the Apologists have us down to get points off them this season but what the reasoning is for that goodness knows. [:|][/quote] Who are these apologists and when did they have us down to get points against Fulham? What I do remember is all the people saying we wouldn''t beat Palace because we never do. Which of course wasn''t true. However to find our last win against Fulham you''d have to go back to 1986. Which is even further than West Ham last month when we beat them for the first time since 1994.[/quote]Why bring West Ham into a thread about Jol and Fulham ? I am guessing but I would think we have only spent about 4 or 5 seasons in the same division as Fulham in those 27 years you mention. Many Hughton apologists on here and by the way they are those who hanker after the prophet known as LDC have stated that we cannot expect to compete with the big boys but should concentrate on gaining points from those Clubs around us which obviously include Fulham. Having 5 or even 7 scored against us by the big boys seems acceptable to some in the big scheme of things so I thought it was reasonable to point out that Fulham scoring 5 against us is the norm in recent times and based on that to get points this season even against a side up against it may not be easy to come by. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted December 6, 2013 Because it''s relevant. We had gone 7 games without beating West Ham and that went back to 1994. We had gone just 5 games since we beat Crystal Palace who apparently we never beat. But we have gone 14 games since we beat Fulham which is the longest run without a win of all our PL opponents. Liverpool and Chelsea are both 9 without a win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,718 Posted December 6, 2013 [quote user="nutty nigel"]Because it''s relevant. We had gone 7 games without beating West Ham and that went back to 1994. We had gone just 5 games since we beat Crystal Palace who apparently we never beat. But we have gone 14 games since we beat Fulham which is the longest run without a win of all our PL opponents. Liverpool and Chelsea are both 9 without a win.[/quote]This thread is about Jol and Fulham with a comparison to Hughton so if you want to bring West Ham onto the radar it is only relevant if you publish Fulhams record against them also.You consider what you posted relevant well I do not. It''s called opinion which is something I believe you champion on here and as this thread has run for two pages and seems to have run it''s course as far as other posters are concerned I will leave it at that as I note you now wish to extend the scope by bringing Liverpool and Chelsea on board. What they have to do with Martin Jol goodness knows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted December 6, 2013 Just to point out that we''d played Fulham plenty of times since we last beat them. I guess it became irrelevant when you were wrong... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
It's Character Forming 1,160 Posted December 6, 2013 [quote user="The Sensational Zak Cartman"][quote user="Canary Poirot"] He accumulated 5 less points than Hughton has over that period. He''s been sacked. Hughton hasn''t.[/quote]Do you reckon Paul Lambert the Aston Villa manager needs to watch his back then because he''s only two points off Chris Hughton over this period despite having spent the better part of £80m per year on wages alone and having two £20m strikers to call upon? [/quote]Since Martin O''Neill left Villa in 2010 they appointed Houllier who only lasted until 2011 and then McLeish was sacked in 2012. With Lambert the owners have clearly decided to give him longer to try to turn things around, despite being close to relegation last season. I''ve no idea what will be acceptable to their owners, you''d have thought he needs to improve on the current level by next season or his job would be under threat. We hear from people who look on their forums that the fans are pretty unhappy with him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TIL 1010 4,718 Posted December 6, 2013 [quote user="nutty nigel"]Just to point out that we''d played Fulham plenty of times since we last beat them. I guess it became irrelevant when you were wrong...[/quote]I am surprised you know what wrong is as it is something you never are on here if you distort the thread enough to twist it round to your perspective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Big Bad Wolf 0 Posted December 6, 2013 I think you will find that Nutty is one of those apologists that you are referring to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Surfer 1,547 Posted December 6, 2013 Back to Martin Jol. IMO most managers get sacked because of a run of defeats ….so you can certainly argue that we have lost momentum, and CH should go, but what is undeniable is Fulham lost SIX games in a row… and seven in a row now since they changed manager. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zak Van Burger 0 Posted December 6, 2013 I''d say we''re picking up momentum what with the current home form, anything from the Baggies tomorrow and we''ll not be a million miles off a team in form if you take the standard 6 game countback. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stewfil 10 Posted December 7, 2013 Villa was mentioned on this thread before West Ham - but not by Nutty. You didn''t seem to notice that and if you did, you didn''t attack the poster. Seems like a falling out of "old" friends?` Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted December 7, 2013 No falling out Stewfil. We just see things differently and react to things differently. I spend half my life at loggerheads with the old boy..... [;)] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yobocop 1,095 Posted December 7, 2013 Martin Jol''s last 5 game record before getting the sack: L L L L L (0 points) Chris Hughtons record during this time: D L W L W (7 points) Yeah ''almost'' as good..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nutty nigel 7,509 Posted December 7, 2013 [quote user="refjezdavies"]Martin Jol''s last 5 game record before getting the sack: L L L L L (0 points) Chris Hughtons record during this time: D L W L W (7 points) Yeah ''almost'' as good.....[/quote] That''s the reality of it Jez. I''ve never known Norwich sack a manager after a run of results like that. I''m pretty certain that if our record had been LLLLL Hughton would be gone too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites