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It was said this morning on the radio that when Ferguson left Manure, his speech to the fans said something along the lines that the new manager would need time and that there would be tough times ahead while her gets established, and that fans should give him the time he needs to get his methods and ways of working to show on the pitch.

If Lambert had left as a hero and made an impassioned speech, he might have said something similar at Norwich - to give the man time.  

It was also said that as Moyes walked off the pitch yesterday that it was noticeable that the Manure fans were applauding him off and showing their support and that it was a minority of fans that were  booing, showing discontent.

The majority of fans showing respect to a manager trying to follow in the footsteps of the most successful manager in their clubs history.   Now I know for a fact that our fans are fantastic and that most of us have had our concerns over the new manager, but I am also pretty sure that most of us are able to see that the manager has a lot more knowledge and ability than some of the more vitriolic posters on here.

So given the support shown to Moyes and given the good results we have had recently, surely its time to cut our manager a bit of slack and lay off the mud slinging at him?   After all aren''t we as big a club (or bigger) than ManUtd, if not in size but in spirit??  

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Moyes has only been there for a small amount of time so most sensible Manure will give him as long as he needs to bed in.

Hughton has been here for nearly a season and a half. The intelligent majority of supporters gave him the first season to bed in, and although some of it was awful, he was given a bit of leeway as he achieved what was asked.

This season there have been genuine concerns, for me after Spurs, mixed in with crazy over reaction. He needs to show consistency, an ability to learn from his mistakes and make the fans feel a bit more optimistic about games, especially against the big teams. A lot to ask of a manager but that''s what he gets paid for.

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Absolutely no comparison whatsoever, Lakey. Moyes has been there a matter of weeks and, by their standards, little money to spend. By contrast, CH is now half way into his second season and has had recordd funds at his disposal.

The NCFC fans have shown a hell of a lot of patience with Hughton, and it beggars belief that you don''t accept that as fact.

I''m hoping that yesterday''s result is the sign of a change of attitude by him, and some of the players, in fairness. But it''ll take more than a solitary away win for me to put myself fair and square behind the current régime. The period between now and Xmas will answer a lot of questions as to whether the Hawthorns represented a line in the sand or was a mere blip. Time will tell.

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Apparently those fans that did boo him all got on the coach back to Norfolk after the match.

As for CH having "record funds at his disposal", I always find that type of statement abou funds, whilst true, is a bit misleading. Why? well because you have to compare the funds available to other club''s Managers and also take a look at some hostoric squad spending when looking at squad size and success achieved vs how much has been spent...............and on that basis our club is doing very well and still on a relatively small budget compared to the majority of the teams we will play this season. 

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I think I had in mind the fact that it took Ferguson two or three years to start to get the best out of his tenure at the club and that he was passing this on to the MU fans.   Give the man as much time as he needs.   If he is the right man for the job long term, he will need that, because that is what he (Ferguson) had needed. 

Now I know some people don''t think Hughton is right for long term,  but its one of those carrot and stick problems.   He is trusted by McNally and co so that is good enough for me.   His playing, coaching and  managing record - and his stature in the game is pretty much universally admired.

No surprise though that it would take well in to the second season, maybe even the third before we see the best of his tenure.  It just seems though as if  some Norwich fans are just too impatient.  

Reggy - what on earth do you think would make the manager change his attitude?   He knows what he is doing and knows what he wants.  He simply needs to be allowed to get on with the job developing the team  without people who think they know him  tryingor wanting  to "change" him.  

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Are you having a pop at our fans here LDC, the majority have stuck with the manager through thick and thin home and away,over a damn side longer period than Moyes has been at MU, dispite having concerns, what on earth is the point you are making?

Comparing our support to the tourists is insulting!

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I probably personally take getting absolutely battered pretty poorly and angrily, I don''t like seeing the club humiliated. I''ve supported CH right up until recently but the 3 very heavy defeats we''d taken recently swayed me into the out camp. Now that I''ve had time to reflect and thinking about 3 absolutely vital and excellent wins we''ve collected recently I''ve changed my mind again. Long term it will always be better for us to keep CH and if he keeps us up this year I don''t think we''ll ever get relegated under him. He won''t face any seasons tougher than this and the previous one. He does make some truly baffling and poor decisions at times but I think barring a freak set of results I''ll blindly support him now because as poor as it can get some times I think we''re in safe hands with him.

Because I never have enough money to go to many games the thought of Championship football again without regular streams and media coverage is scary to me :P I''ve been spoiled rotten I just can''t go back to the radio!

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[quote user="Canarygirl"]Are you having a pop at our fans here LDC, the majority have stuck with the manager through thick and thin home and away,over a damn side longer period than Moyes has been at MU, dispite having concerns, what on earth is the point you are making?

Comparing our support to the tourists is insulting![/quote]

I''m having a pop at those who made up their minds about Hughton practically from the start of last season,  stuck their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge anything good that happens may just be down to him.    If you are not one of those people you won''t be offended by my post, if you are offended and take it personally, then maybe you are one of those people. 

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[quote user="lake district canary"]I think I had in mind the fact that it took Ferguson two or three years to start to get the best out of his tenure at the club and that he was passing this on to the MU fans.   Give the man as much time as he needs.   If he is the right man for the job long term, he will need that, because that is what he (Ferguson) had needed. 

Now I know some people don''t think Hughton is right for long term,  but its one of those carrot and stick problems.   He is trusted by McNally and co so that is good enough for me.   His playing, coaching and  managing record - and his stature in the game is pretty much universally admired.

No surprise though that it would take well in to the second season, maybe even the third before we see the best of his tenure.  It just seems though as if  some Norwich fans are just too impatient.  

Reggy - what on earth do you think would make the manager change his attitude?   He knows what he is doing and knows what he wants.  He simply needs to be allowed to get on with the job developing the team  without people who think they know him  tryingor wanting  to "change" him.  

[/quote]

Well, whatever, Lakey, something clearly did make CH change his attitude (or perhaps more accurately), policy, as his tactics yesterday were far more attack minded than in any away game this season , including Stoke.

I''m not for one minute saying that I or any one individual can "change" him, but, I''m merely hoping that he can learn from the many past mistakes, and things will improve. This squad is perfectly capable, if set up right, of garnering quite a reasonable haul of away points. I do not think impatience comes into it at all. There are a number of fixtures this season, where a draw was quite feasible, but by dozy tactical ineptitude, we were on the wrong end of a result.

As I said earlier...... Time will tell.

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I''m having a pop at those who made up their minds about Hughton practically from the start of last season, stuck their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge anything good that happens may just be down to him. If you are not one of those people you won''t be offended by my post, if you are offended and take it personally, then maybe you are one of those people.

How many "practically made their mind up from the start of last season"? Thats nonsence. What you appear to be doing is taking a broader swipe at our fans, the question I ask is who the hell do you think you are?

And for the record I have stuck with the manager like many others but did not find the need to constantly spout of patronising twoddle like you have been doing.

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I''m with Canarygirl on this . For anyone to have pop at the vast majority of fans , who were more than prepared to give CH a chance is arrogant and patronising in the extreme, Lakey. OK there were no doubt a very small number who were biased against him for diverse, nonsensical reasons like the colour of his skin, politics, the fact that he''d played for Spurs or Ireland, but the overwhelming majority stuck with him even in the atrocious months of Jan, Feb, Mar and Apr last season. Where we started to lose faith was when despite all the warning signs and money spent, there was no discernable difference at the start of this.

And I''m not too sure what point Mark is making re money. However you dress it up he''s had far more money to spend than any previous NCFC manager. To that end, what others have spent is irrelevant, but there were plenty of clubs whose net outlay was far less than Hughton''s last close season.

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[quote user="Canarygirl"]I''m having a pop at those who made up their minds about Hughton practically from the start of last season, stuck their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge anything good that happens may just be down to him. If you are not one of those people you won''t be offended by my post, if you are offended and take it personally, then maybe you are one of those people.

How many "practically made their mind up from the start of last season"?

Thats nonsence. What you appear to be doing is taking a broader swipe at our fans, the question I ask is who the hell do you think you are?

And for the record I have stuck with the manager like many others but did not find the need to constantly spout of patronising twoddle like you have been doing.[/quote]

Patronising twoddle it may be, but I found myself on here defending Hughton during the pre-season last season.   There were some who took an instant dislike to him.  The 5-0 at Fulham then set the tone for the season and despite our great run of matches, he was given little credit from some quarters, even after finishing comfortably mid-table with some great results along the way.   Not without problems of course and there have been more problems this season.    But broader swipe at our fans?  No, only the closed minded ones.

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[quote user="Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd"]Canary girl and Reg .. have your number LDC..as do I .

Key board warrior ...you are Hughton ! I claim my £10[/quote]

Damn, I knew someone would find me out............

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I really do think the amount spent should not be the stick used to beat him with. Comparatively speaking what we spent is not that much. We might not be used to it but that is mostly down to the tv money which all of the other teams recieved.

Its the reason Arsenal felt that Ozil at £40mil was less of a gamble. Why Spurs could lash out over £100mil and why Swansea and Southampton spent £12mil on single strikers.

We simply had to spend to stay in this league.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Canarygirl"]I''m having a pop at those who made up their minds about Hughton practically from the start of last season, stuck their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge anything good that happens may just be down to him. If you are not one of those people you won''t be offended by my post, if you are offended and take it personally, then maybe you are one of those people.

How many "practically made their mind up from the start of last season"?

Thats nonsence. What you appear to be doing is taking a broader swipe at our fans, the question I ask is who the hell do you think you are?

And for the record I have stuck with the manager like many others but did not find the need to constantly spout of patronising twoddle like you have been doing.[/quote]

Patronising twoddle it may be, but I found myself on here defending Hughton during the pre-season last season.   There were some who took an instant dislike to him.  The 5-0 at Fulham then set the tone for the season and despite our great run of matches, he was given little credit from some quarters, even after finishing comfortably mid-table with some great results along the way.   Not without problems of course and there have been more problems this season.    But broader swipe at our fans?  No, only the closed minded ones.

[/quote]

 

Of course, the reality is Lakey has been taking broad swipes at fans ever since he arrived on this forum. Long before Hughton joined us so I''m afraid you can''t claim your 10 pounds Barclay Seats. Lakey''s denial of taking broad swipes is laughable simply by looking at his very own reaction here to canarygirl, where he appears not to know whether she is someone that he is criticizing or not but leaves it to her to make the judgment. If that''s the case then surely that same situation applies to other posters as well because Lakey does not have the courage or character to identify specifically who he is addressing. Even behind a pseudonym and on a message board. Rather sad really, because he does it with every new thread that he initiates.

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Totally agree that impatience is the bane of modern football. There is a comparison to be made between the situations, particularly given that quite a few were vehemently anti-Hughton quite early last season, let alone this one.

One erroneous point on here. Last season Hughton didn''t deliver what was asked of him, he exceeded it significantly. He was asked to deliver survival and finished up delivering a position up the ladder from his predecessor. We were still the cheapest team in the league last year.

One thing that people are missing is that last transfer window represented a major shift in personnel. Grant Holt gone, many other legacy players gone and eight new players in. That''s a lot of players that don''t know each other well and need to get to really understand each others strengths to get the best out of each other. In spite of that, numerous injuries and a tough run of fixtures when you''d have hoped that we''d have hoped they''d have started getting confidence together, we find ourselves with 17 points in 15 games and gaining momentum with three wins out of the last five games. Aside from a couple of nasty thumpings, this has been a pretty sound start to the season considering the upheaval on the pitch. Not bad for a team that, even with the summer spending spree, is still the fourth cheapest team in the Premier League.

To be honest, I''m not going to worry myself about the ''Hughton outers'' any longer. Thankfully, we appear to have a board capable of taking a longer term strategic view than a small but vocal selection of its fans.

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]Of course, the reality is Lakey has been taking broad swipes at fans ever since he arrived on this forum. Long before Hughton joined us so I''m afraid you can''t claim your 10 pounds Barclay Seats. Lakey''s denial of taking broad swipes is laughable simply by looking at his very own reaction here to canarygirl, where he appears not to know whether she is someone that he is criticizing or not but leaves it to her to make the judgment. If that''s the case then surely that same situation applies to other posters as well because Lakey does not have the courage or character to identify specifically who he is addressing. Even behind a pseudonym and on a message board. Rather sad really, because he does it with every new thread that he initiates. [/quote]

LMAO.  I would happily name names if I could be bothered trawl through threads identifying individuals.  But this isn''t an English essay or University project.  This is somewhere to come to read about what people think about our club.  The overiding impression this board gives is that there are too many that come on here who are impatient, spoilt and downright disrespectful to people.  The spelling of the manager''s name wrong is just one thing that is rife on here.  Some might find it funny or humourous that it irritates some people, just as they find it funny to wind up people with anything.  But I''m not here to single out people - unless they target me for "special attention" - like Yankee Canary - who rather than answer the points on the thread like a normal poster sees fit to try to character assassinate.   Very big of you YC.  

Go on then, YC, what is your opinion on the football matter of this thread - that a large proportion of fans  will be supporting of the manager and team and that a small minority have not had the patience to stick with things and rather turn against the manager right from near the start of his tenure?  Sorry if that''s too general for your mightiness to consider, but the point about Fergy remains.  He was in his job nearly three years before things really picked up.  His message when he left was stick with the new manager as there will be  tough times ahead.  If he meant three years, as he was given, then that is the message I have been preaching since all this Hughton out stuff started, way back at the beginning of last season.  Answer the point of the thread, or go and find something more useful to do with your time than trying to discredit someone who is trying to talk about football matters.

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Hang on a bit, Lakey. As you are being pedantic here, let''s all be strictly accurate, shall we ?

The point of your initial post , and thus the title, was not about the time SAF had to bed in at Man U, but the way he allegedly implored the fans to give Moyes time to stamp HIS mark on the team.

And I maintain that those two things are in no way comparable. Hughton has had a full season more than Moyes to make good.

With respect, if you are going to use Moyes as a yardstick, frankly I think your case would be better made by referring to the time he had at Everton to get things going !!

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So you are taking a broad swipe at our fans and critisising them, you say you want to talk about football matters and you do so by taking a high and mighty approach as if you were superior to the rest of us, the fans that go to games week in and week out and support the club. It looks more like you are trying to inflate your own ego to me!

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Hang on a bit, Lakey. As you are being pedantic here, let''s all be strictly accurate, shall we ?

The point of your initial post , and thus the title, was not about the time SAF had to bed in at Man U, but the way he allegedly implored the fans to give Moyes time to stamp HIS mark on the team.

And I maintain that those two things are in no way comparable. Hughton has had a full season more than Moyes to make good.

With respect, if you are going to use Moyes as a yardstick, frankly I think your case would be better made by referring to the time he had at Everton to get things going !![/quote]I thought I had explained it well enough.   Ferguson had three years leeway when he took charge.  He was inferring that maybe it would take Moyes a significant length of time to turn things his way, maybe even three years like he, Ferguson had been given.   Hughton has only had a season and a third.  He may need two to three years to get his project to fruition.   So the point is clear.

The point about the fans was to say that Moyes clearly still has the support of the large majority of MU fans as he was applauded off the pitch the other day.  I hope that our fans still largely support Hughton and give him the time he needs - maybe two or three years - and that the noisy minority on here who are intent on seeing him out, regardless of results and performances, stfu.   That is only a few, most of us are just concerned and criticise without jumping on any "Hughton-out" bandwagon. [quote user="Canarygirl"]So you are taking a broad swipe at our fans and

critisising them, [/quote]  It is not a broad swipe. You can twist or misunderstand the meaning of my words how you want, but it is not a broad swipe.

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Well your point cannot have been that "clear" Lakey, as it''s not just me who misunderstood it !!!

One thing is certainly true though; whether it''s a "broad swip " or not you do consistently fail to differentiate between the sceptics who have grown to be unhappy with Hughton''s performance and those who''ve had it in for him for whatever reason from the start. By that I mean that the latter group are relatively small, and operate often through malice toward the individual. The former group, by contrast were happy to give him a fair crack of the whip, but have become increasingly disillusioned with the perceived lack of progress.

Finally, you mention the 3 years that SAF had at OT to make his mark. I''d actually dispute that time length, but, even saying it were true, again the comparison with Norwich is spurious. In the case of Man U, whilst, fair enough, they were not winning titles at the beginning of SAF''s tenure thare was no realistic prospect of their losing top-flight status. In Norwich''s case, if we were to continue iin the current vein for 3 years, there is little doubt that at some stage we''d come unstuck and get relegated.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Well your point cannot have been that "clear" Lakey, as it''s not just me who misunderstood it !!!

One thing is certainly true though; whether it''s a "broad swip " or not you do consistently fail to differentiate between the sceptics who have grown to be unhappy with Hughton''s performance and those who''ve had it in for him for whatever reason from the start. By that I mean that the latter group are relatively small, and operate often through malice toward the individual. The former group, by contrast were happy to give him a fair crack of the whip, but have become increasingly disillusioned with the perceived lack of progress.

Finally, you mention the 3 years that SAF had at OT to make his mark. I''d actually dispute that time length, but, even saying it were true, again the comparison with Norwich is spurious. In the case of Man U, whilst, fair enough, they were not winning titles at the beginning of SAF''s tenure thare was no realistic prospect of their losing top-flight status. In Norwich''s case, if we were to continue iin the current vein for 3 years, there is little doubt that at some stage we''d come unstuck and get relegated.[/quote]

Fair enough.  I do try to differentiate between the hard line, closed minded fans and the broader view of general concern that most fans have, but if I have not been clear enough on that, I''m sorry.   I also agree that the stakes are higher for us than MU in premiership survival  stakes,  but it just struck me that Ferguson - being a demi-god at MU and Lambert being a  demi-god here - both followed by respected managers who have struggled, albeit Moyes has only been there a few months - that there is a kind of parallel, even if the expectations of the two clubs are different.

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LDC

Fair enough. I do try to differentiate between the hard line, closed minded fans and the broader view of general concern that most fans have, but if I have not been clear enough on that, I''m sorry.

Apology accepted, if you try to be a bit less patronising in the future it be a lot better.

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I also accept your apology Lakey. That''s a good beginning on your part. The only added suggestion I would make is, given you agree that the extremism is coming from a small minority, when you feel you need to react why don''t you do so by reacting on the threads that they initiate or comment upon rather than constantly starting new ones of your own. That way you don''t have to troll through to find out who you are addressing your views to.

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