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Trouble at the "bigger club" Paul?!

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http://www.avillafan.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=11372&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter"We just don’t create anything any more, And even now, I know it’s very

early on as a lot of people have said. I don’t think we’re at risk of

going down whatsoever, but I don’t think we’re really going forward

anywhere. It’s certainly not a call for Lambert to leave or anything

like that."But against Southampton we weren’t very good at all and he came out and

said I thought we were brilliant. And  today his normal turn of phrase

after any win lose or defeat for Villa is ‘We pick ourselves up and go

again’ which is fine when it’s in his first season as a manager, but the

team and his persona doesn’t really fill me and I’m sure plenty of

other people with any excitement really.

It’s a bit disappointing to see because there was a bit of a platform

last year that I thought we would push on from. We’re just not very

interesting to watch."Sounds pretty similar to some of the stuff I''ve heard aimed at Hughton to be honest...

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He is was and always will be the Messiah and our club is much the poorer that he has gone

There are to many on here who disrespect the Messiah and have easily forget what he has done for the club

Hughton out Messiah back

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I think he''s doing alright with Villa. They are still in recovery mode and even Mourinho or Fergie wouldn''t get them up to 7th at the moment.

They have to play to their strengths of counter attacking and patch up the rest. Just like every team from about 8th downwards, we''re all in the same fight (well Man U will probably pull away). Without being outstanding, Lambert has produced what was asked of him and Villa are a better team than they were when he arrived. It''s just Villa fans getting impatient.

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There''ll always be fans that aren''t satisfied, just look at this board.

I suppose though he is just a fan "concerned" at what is going on at his club. A proper fan if you will, not like one of these happy clappy fans that claim he''s shipped out the dead wood, cut costs by millions, built the youngest squad in the prem and improved players like Guzan and Delph beyond recognition.

Lambert Out.

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I find it very hard to believe that either PL or their owners seriously expected that they''d be fighting relegation right up to the end of last season, nor that their form would be so inconsistent this season. I think. PL has more slack simply because they''ve gone through 2 managers since O''neill left but that only goes so far and if he doesn''t improve the rest of the season he''ll come under real pressure.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]I think he''s doing alright with Villa. They are still in recovery mode and "working within the financial constraints set by Lerner" even Mourinho or Fergie wouldn''t get them up to 7th at the moment. [/quote]

I''ve added a little to your statement Jimmy as I honestly believe that Lambert and Villa are being held back by Lerner reeling back the purse strings and long may it continue.

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The difference for me is that Lambert took over a side in trouble.

 

High wage mediocre players playing a very negative style of football under Big ''Eck and narrowly avoiding relegation.  Lambert had to get rid of a lot of dross, change the team''s mentality and almost completely rebuild the squad using limited funds, not to say very low on confidence.

 

This is not a one/two season job, but a long term project.  So far he has done quite well IMO and they are heading in the right direction from where he took over, but much work to be done.

 

In comparison Hughton took over a team that had performed brilliantly the season before and a strong competitive mentality.  Confidence was good and good football was being played.  Yes we had weaknesses, with the Defense being the main area of concern.  However this for me was more of a personnel problem rather than a tactical one.

 

Chris has brought in good players and ones better than what we had, however the key faults have still not addressed or maybe rather we sacrificed a strength to compensate a weakness. Time will tell whether his approach is the correct one, but for me you cannot sacrifice one for the other.  You have to build on your strengths1 I just don''t feel we have done this.

 

Both are challenges, but different ones, and IMO Lambert actually took on the harder of the two.  For all his faults you cannot say he is not brave!  I don''t believe he left us because he felt he could not take us further!  I believe this was a disagreement with McNally about where we should go and how to do it.  PL had one philosophy and DM had another. Unfortunately this ended in a horrible breakdown of respect between the two.

 

But of course this is just my opinion and I know full well others will disagree.

 

Snake

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I think despite the thrashings, Hughton has improved our defence. If they went all season conceeding 5 one game then 0 the next 2, i''d take that..

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lets face it villa fans are more deluded than the people on here who think because city have won a couple games recently that all is rosy and hughton is a genius

theyve still get this idea they are a big club that should be winning things, where in truth they havnt been for a looooooooooooooooooong time

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Despite our hard run of opening fixtures we COULD (assuming we win one more game in 2012) be sitting on 20  points (hopefully more!) before the half way point.

It might be very "little Norwich" of me but IMO the sooner we hit 40  points the better...

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[quote user="Waveney canary"]He is was and always will be the Messiah and our club is much the poorer that he has gone

There are to many on here who disrespect the Messiah and have easily forget what he has done for the club

Hughton out Messiah back[/quote]

Are you Real? or what

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Jimmy,

 

Statistically our defence improved, (more clean sheets) and 8 less goals conceded in the season, but for me this was only because we defend in numbers and deep.  This resulted in less goals scored and less games won.

 

2011-12  P38 W12 D11 L15 GF52 GA66 GD-14 PTS 47

2012-13  P38 W10 D14 L14 GF41 GA58 GD-17 PTS 44

 

The personnel in the defence are better I agree, but I cannot agree with getting thumped one week to a clean sheet the next. Losing in that manner is a real drain on the confidence.  Winning games and scoring is a real boost.  Clean sheets are less so, though still valuable!

 

Defending for me begins from the front. This was what I was always taught. The more time we have the ball and the more time we spend in the opposition half, the less stress placed on our defence as there is less opposition pressure in both time and occurrences.

 

Snake 

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I''m not convinced about the "Lambert took over a side in trouble" idea.  If you look back to when he took us over, we were in much bigger trouble having just gone down to L1 and been handed a massive thrashing at home by a side we were expected to stroll to a win over.  This makes the players realise that the past approach hasn''t worked and they must change.  This makes them more receptive to a new manager - they''re desperate for someone to lead them out of the mess (a "messiah" if you like) and are willing to submit to strong direction.  So in a lot of ways it''s easier than if you take over a successful side where the players will be resistent to change - look at David Moyes for example.

 

Hughton probably had some initial resistance to change, but I think losing 5-0 to Fulham on the opening day blew that away.  But the fact that the previous manager had been successful over a 3 year period would still have made it harder for him to introduce his approach,  Although now most of the players have changed so that should be over now.

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Snake eyes. Although you say that Hughton took over a side that had ''performed brilliantly'' the season before, there is no question that cracks had begun to develop. Much of the good work was done before Xmas that season under Lambert, and in fact we lost 7 of our last 13 games, taking only 12 points, along with some very poor performances at Blackburn, home to Liverpool and Man City.

All was not entirely rosy in the garden and we clearly had some players who were not going to be up to PL standard long term in Barnett, Ward, Morison, Surman, Fox, Tierney, Jackson.

CH had a tougher job than you are giving him credit for.

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Hughton and Lambert are both doing equally well at their clubs. Or, if you''re feeling that way out they''re doing as bad as eachother at their clubs. Whichever way you want it there''s nothing to choose between them.

 

 

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I never said CH''s job was easy. What I said was that I believe that the Challenge facing Lambert was tougher.

You are right in saying there were cracks appearing at the end of Pl''s reign, but I believe that a lot of that was due to the rumblings and discontent happening between PL and DM. Yes an updating of personnel was needed, but did we really need such a drastic change in philosophy?

No not everything was rosy however if you took both clubs statuses at the end of that season irrespective of their name, which one would you see as the greatest challenge?

Snake

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I would hazzard a guess that over 90% of Norwich fans would take Lambert back in the blink of an eye if it was a straight choice between Lambert and Hughton .

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[quote user="CanaryOne"]I would hazzard a guess that over 90% of Norwich fans would take Lambert back in the blink of an eye if it was a straight choice between Lambert and Hughton .[/quote]

This is the truth! I can''t imagine any right minded canary would disagree

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And I don''t suppose we could persuade Pete to set up a sticky listing known trolls to avoid people bothering to rise to the sh*te Waveney Canary et al post?

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]There''ll always be fans that aren''t satisfied, just look at this board.

I suppose though he is just a fan "concerned" at what is going on at his club. A proper fan if you will, not like one of these happy clappy fans that claim he''s shipped out the dead wood, cut costs by millions, built the youngest squad in the prem and improved players like Guzan and Delph beyond recognition.

Lambert Out.[/quote]

Ah quoting me I see.

You got a season ticket this year mate ;)

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]There''ll always be fans that aren''t satisfied, just look at this board.

I suppose though he is just a fan "concerned" at what is going on at his club. A proper fan if you will, not like one of these happy clappy fans that claim he''s shipped out the dead wood, cut costs by millions, built the youngest squad in the prem and improved players like Guzan and Delph beyond recognition.

Lambert Out.[/quote]

Ah quoting me I see.

You got a season ticket this year mate ;)

A pal of mine that is the villa fan is happy with him and said everything I posted. Not my opinion.....

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[quote user="snake-eyes"]

The difference for me is that Lambert took over a side in trouble.

 

High wage mediocre players playing a very negative style of football under Big ''Eck and narrowly avoiding relegation.  Lambert had to get rid of a lot of dross, change the team''s mentality and almost completely rebuild the squad using limited funds, not to say very low on confidence.

 

This is not a one/two season job, but a long term project.  So far he has done quite well IMO and they are heading in the right direction from where he took over, but much work to be done.

 

In comparison Hughton took over a team that had performed brilliantly the season before and a strong competitive mentality.  Confidence was good and good football was being played.  Yes we had weaknesses, with the Defense being the main area of concern.  However this for me was more of a personnel problem rather than a tactical one.

 

Chris has brought in good players and ones better than what we had, however the key faults have still not addressed or maybe rather we sacrificed a strength to compensate a weakness. Time will tell whether his approach is the correct one, but for me you cannot sacrifice one for the other.  You have to build on your strengths1 I just don''t feel we have done this.

 

Both are challenges, but different ones, and IMO Lambert actually took on the harder of the two.  For all his faults you cannot say he is not brave!  I don''t believe he left us because he felt he could not take us further!  I believe this was a disagreement with McNally about where we should go and how to do it.  PL had one philosophy and DM had another. Unfortunately this ended in a horrible breakdown of respect between the two.

 

But of course this is just my opinion and I know full well others will disagree.

 

Snake

[/quote]

Bang. Nail. Head.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"][quote user="Warren Hill"]There''ll always be fans that aren''t satisfied, just look at this board.

I suppose though he is just a fan "concerned" at what is going on at his club. A proper fan if you will, not like one of these happy clappy fans that claim he''s shipped out the dead wood, cut costs by millions, built the youngest squad in the prem and improved players like Guzan and Delph beyond recognition.

Lambert Out.[/quote]

Ah quoting me I see.

You got a season ticket this year mate ;)

A pal of mine that is the villa fan is happy with him and said everything I posted. Not my opinion.....[/quote]

What''s your problem?

You clearly miss the obvious comparison that I''m trying to make. I''m sure your pal is happy, others aren''t it would seem.

Not so dissimilar from our own fans, hence the parody.

Get to many games on your oil rig? ;-)

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