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nutty nigel

Hoots regains the lead..

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Personally, I couldn''t care less how many points Villa have reaped under Lambert. As relevant to NCFC as the number of points the scum have got under McCarthy.

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I wonder if there''s anyone on here who would swap Lambert and his squad for Hughton and his squad right now. I don''t mean cherry pick individual players but the whole caboodle. I wouldn''t.

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[quote user="Dr Crafty Canary"]Personally, I couldn''t care less how many points Villa have reaped under Lambert. As relevant to NCFC as the number of points the scum have got under McCarthy.[/quote]

Perhaps not relevant to NCFC Doc but certainly relevant to this message board which is peppered with posts pining for Lambert while at the same time criticising the performance of his replacement.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Men against boys at the Cottage this afternoon meaning : -

 

Hughton''s City P53 61pts

Lambert''s Villa P53 60pts

 

 

[/quote]

 

Naughty Nutty .........................but nice.[:D]

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Man for man I wouldn''t. They have some good individuals, but full strength we have a better array I think.

Amazed at how many foreigners there are.

Lambert can''t keep the place going on the will alone. He''s a good motivator but you always have the sense it can''t keep you going forever in the top league. Fatigue and malaise will kick in.

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--- flying high up in the sky!: Lambert is a great lower league manager but not sure if he has what it takes at the top level.

He clearly does as he led us to 12th and Villa to wherever last season, Villa sitting what, 10th right now.

I don''t think he has exactly set Villa Park on fire since his arrival it has to be said.

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Respect your opinion, but PL did inherit a lot of quality, just decided not to use some of it.......he actually left a very limited squad for CH.

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Can you get the relevant team lists up so we can judge if your opinion is right or wrong?

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]IMO Hughton inerited a better squad than Lambert.[/quote]

Really?

Given, Guzan, Dunne, Delph, Bent, Weimann, Agbonlahor etc

Ruddy, Rudd, Ward, Fox, Holt, Morison, Jackson would be the comparables.

Which would you have? (The inclusion of Fox probably makes it a toughie...)

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Must add, that for some reason I continue to be interested in whats happening with Paul Lambert and find that these stats do help put things in perspective, particularly as I spent the second half yesterday complaining about almost everything despite us being in the lead and holding out for a very decent win. 

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I can''t see that, CUSDP - Villa had a lot of experienced PL players, a side in the Euro u-21 league (which they won showing they have plenty coming through at the ''right'' age) but were probably under performing; we had a side made up of Champs players possibly overreaching expectation. Both squads needed tinkering with but for me they had tonnes more depth (maybe with some ''''issues'').

Lambert is undoubtedly a decent manager, but isn''t infallible and isnt a miracle worker - something thankfully ''clicked'' big-time with him and his squad here and we should be thankful for it, but also move on. That said, this comparison of points scored should definitely be interesting reading for the Hughton bashers....

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Lamberts objective according to a fella i work with (Villa fan) was to half the wage bill and keep them up. The names listed such as Given, were big earners and past there best.

Plus, the team inherited by Hughton finished above Villa, so clearly it was better. Since the overall record of the two over the past 2 yrs has been compared its only fair to mention that.

 

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Lambert inherited team:
Shay Given
Brad Guzan
Andy Marshall
Benjamin Seigrist
Alan Hutton
Richard Dunne (injured)
Ciaran Clark
Enda Stevens
Eric Lichaj
Nathan Baker
James Collins (sold)
Derrick Williams
Stephen Ireland
Charles N''Zogbia
Marc Albrigton
Brett Holman
Fabian Delph
Jean Makoun
Stilliyan Petrov (injured)
Barry Bannan
Chris Herd
Gary Gardner
Samir Carruthers
Darren Bent 
Gabriel Agbonlahor
Nathan Delfouneso
Andreas Weimann
Graham Burke
Hughton Inherited team:
John Ruddy
Declan Rudd
Jed Steer
R. Martin
Leon Barnett
Elliot Ward
Marc Tierney
Ryan Bennett
George Francomb
Daniel Ayala
Bradley Johnson
Jonny Howson
Andrew Surman
Anthony Pilkington
Wes Hoolahan
David Fox
Elliot Bennett
Korey Smith
Tom Adeyemi
Grant Holt
Chris Martin
Simeon Jackson
James Vaughan

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Of course to get the full therapeutic benefit from these stats it helps to remember that Lambert isn''t doing worse than Hughton. They''re actually both doing very well at their clubs and enjoying successful periods in one of the worlds top leagues. Both managers will be comfortable by the end of the season with Hoot''s City passing through the 40 point barrier a couple of weeks before Lambo''s Villa.

 

 

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I don''t see how these stats help or work against Hughton. A lot of villa fans seem unimpressed with Lambert so if Hughtons record is the same should everyone be happy?

We currently spend a similar amount on transfers and achieve about the same. I think Hughtons transfers look better than Lamberts and Hughton plays a more passing game. Lambert is more direct and has more decisive decision making IMO. Swings and round abouts, they both go about getting points in different ways at about the same level of success so it IMO boils down to which style of play you prefer to watch and we can only all guess at which will long term work out more successful.

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The way to determine who''s better between 2 teams is to let them have a match. That''s been done 3 times.

As for comparing styles, Lambert''s worked great with our talent but wasn''t quite as good with Villa''s prima donnas.

Currently, I''d rather be in Villa''s position. Only a loser would prefer to be further down the table.

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I don''t think there''s any therapeutic value in this for you Houston. You''d probably get more benefit from regular meds....

 

 

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]

Lamberts objective according to a fella i work with (Villa fan) was to half the wage bill and keep them up. The names listed such as Given, were big earners and past there best.

Plus, the team inherited by Hughton finished above Villa, so clearly it was better. Since the overall record of the two over the past 2 yrs has been compared its only fair to mention that.

 

[/quote]

Delph, Weimann, Agbonlahor, Guzan were all past their best? Someone should tell Lambert...

Also it''s only fair to mention that neither manager went with what they "inherited", which kind of makes the point irrelevant.

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Dubai Mark wrote.

"Respect your opinion, but PL did inherit a lot of quality, just decided not to use some of it.......he actually left a very limited squad for CH."

He also left a very limited U21 squad, having released a number of players before he departed and the academy had to go on an extensive scouting campaign to effectively put a team together. Even Jamar Loza was released and the new regime managed to ''recall'' him.

In fact I think I am correct in saying that last year we only had 6 or 7 players, outside of the first team squad, aged between 18 and 21 and 5 (I think) of them were signed at the start of the season. This of course meant that about half of the U21 team last year were in fact U18s. Many of these lads have now progressed to the U21 age group, so I believe the squad now totals 12 U21 players, so we still feature a few U18s in the U21 team. In fact we have only one 20 year old and three 19 year olds the rest are all 18, so considering their average age I think they are performing very well (9th out of 22 in their league) and only two teams in that league have conceded less goals per game than our boys, the leaders Fulham and Man Utd.

Off post I know, but some people are calling for 3 or 4 transfers in in the January window, when in fact we have some very promising youngsters who could step up, as Josh Murphy has already, so we may not need to buy as big as some believe.

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CUSDP, to say that because Norwich finished above Villa in Lambert''s swansong season we definitively had a better squad is simplistic at best, and at worst reeks of an obvious agenda. Norwich went from L1 to the Prem in 2 seasons, whereas Villa were mainstays. To suggest the quality was better in our squad is a little bizarre.

But let''s say I agree with you, surely if we apply your logic, then Hughton must be a better manager than Lambert because of the finishing position of the relevant clubs last season. Or do different criteria apply when it doesn''t suit your argument?

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I think it''s worth noting what happened to players that did not fit their new managers plans or wanted to move on for regular football.

Only Steer went to another premiership team fron those we have since departed with.

How many of Villa''s went to other prem teams?

I still like Lambert but I''ve always held to the idea that team sports are always so finely balanced. As in sometimes you see players perform incredibly at one club and then never again elsewhere. Perhaps it''s the players around them, the fand, the coaching staff/manager, the location or the family being settled down. Whatever the readon it gets the best from them. I think managers are the same.

Lambert came to us at the point where we needed esch other. Heneed a club with the real potential to act as his way towards the top. He got us there. He obviously felt that keeping us up wasgoing to be tougher than keeping them up which is one of the reasons he went.

Lets face it. We had a pretty poor goals conceeded column and a decent goals for record that relied heavily upon Holt who wasn''t getting any younger and was carrying niggly injuries.

Hughton is different. He''s been here before. To me he is far more tactically aware than our first prem season. The fact that Lambert plays tighter now too suggests to me that he didn''t feel he had the ability to overhaul the squad and change the style/approach.

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