Chris Hughton's job security

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

Im surprised by the amount of people who consider Chris Hughton to be ''on the edge''. It would seem a large number of fans perceive Hughtons job to currently be under threat and that there is a sword of Damacles hanging over him everywhere he goes. Regardless of whether you want him out or want him to stay (ie disregard the wishful thinking) - do people really think his job is currently under threat? Because I dont. Performances have picked up if not results, fan faith has returned a little, and we''ve played 4 out of the top 6 in our first 8 games. I dont think Hughton''s job is in the least nit under threat, I think its probably business as usual at Carrow Road. Im amazed at the number of people who think he''s only got a few games left.

So my question is this - do people REALLY think his job is under threat, or is it just wishful thinking for some?

[ron obvious 1,498]

I don''t think wishful thinking adequately describes it. Psychopathic megalomania is closer to the mark for some of them.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

Impossible to know, unless you''re a director. But just because some of what has been posted here is wishful or hysterical  thinking doesn''t mean it isn''t being mirrored a bit more rationally in the boardroom.A guess would be that Hughton is not yet anywhere near the edge. The directors have, literally and metaphorically, invested a great deal in him. And this is not a board of six nonentities just rubber-stamping the views of the seventh, so not much likelihood of a panicky decision.That said I would be surprised if two bits of history are not coming into the minds of all seven. One is last season, when two clubs looked - and were - doomed - early on. And in reality the fight for us and some others was to avoid being the idiots who finished 18th. This season is shaping up the same way.The other lesson is from 1984-85, when a nice but weak manager (Ken Brown) allowed a decent team to sleep-walk the post-Milk Cup Final season down to relegation.

[Old Shuck 183]

He''s under a lot of pressure from some of the supporters-but I doubt he is, in terms of job security, under much from the club hierachy.

 

Take remaining in the Premier League this season (and every season) as read. Its the secondary target or vision set to him and the coaching staff where he has to deliver this time around.

 

The club has said that real evidence of progress on the field is expected this season-league position not as important as signs and indications that the former is happening. I would imagine that, if we ''stay put'' this season-and I think we will-then the Summer 2014 recruitment drive will not be as frenetic as this Summers was and the core of players we currently have will be supplemented by no more than 2-3 new additions.

 

Thus this season we show we have the players and aptitude to go forward-and next season we show it in terms of results, performances and final league position-from day one. Summer 2013 was like year one, day one for the club again. The changes and revolution that started under DMcN and the new board, Lambert and into the early part of Hughton''s tenure here came to their natural end with the last day of last season and stage two began.

 

Better squad and players and, steadily, a new approach to how we play with a growing emphasis, even more than usual, on the youth set-up.

 

Thus CH won''t be judged solely on what happens on the pitch every Saturday/Sunday/whenever but what is going on at the club as a whole. He was appointed with continuity in mind and a holistic approach (ie) he oversees every footballing department of the club. His interest in same is already evident. I would guess that he knows Mark Robson very well from Tottenham and would have been involved with that appointment somewhere along the line.

 

The club will be desperate for him to be here long term. If he keeps us up, if progress is still seen to be made, in their eyes, he won''t be going anywhere. If we lose on Saturday the pressure and protest will increase, no doubt, but not from within the boardroom. I have little doubt they will act if we look like we are going to be relegated but that isn''t the case in October/November/December-so he''ll be here for a while yet come what may. So lusting after Martin O''Neill is fanciful but it ain''t gonna happen yet, if ever.

 

The pressure CH is under from elements of the clubs support is very different to that he will be under from the club. When both are the same-then he should worry. But we''re way off that at the moment. 

 

[*** 0]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]

He''s under a lot of pressure from some of the supporters-but I doubt he is, in terms of job security, under much from the club hierachy.

 

Take remaining in the Premier League this season (and every season) as read. Its the secondary target or vision set to him and the coaching staff where he has to deliver this time around.

 

The club has said that real evidence of progress on the field is expected this season-league position not as important as signs and indications that the former is happening. I would imagine that, if we ''stay put'' this season-and I think we will-then the Summer 2014 recruitment drive will not be as frenetic as this Summers was and the core of players we currently have will be supplemented by no more than 2-3 new additions.

 

Thus this season we show we have the players and aptitude to go forward-and next season we show it in terms of results, performances and final league position-from day one. Summer 2013 was like year one, day one for the club again. The changes and revolution that started under DMcN and the new board, Lambert and into the early part of Hughton''s tenure here came to their natural end with the last day of last season and stage two began.

 

Better squad and players and, steadily, a new approach to how we play with a growing emphasis, even more than usual, on the youth set-up.

 

Thus CH won''t be judged solely on what happens on the pitch every Saturday/Sunday/whenever but what is going on at the club as a whole. He was appointed with continuity in mind and a holistic approach (ie) he oversees every footballing department of the club. His interest in same is already evident. I would guess that he knows Mark Robson very well from Tottenham and would have been involved with that appointment somewhere along the line.

 

The club will be desperate for him to be here long term. If he keeps us up, if progress is still seen to be made, in their eyes, he won''t be going anywhere. If we lose on Saturday the pressure and protest will increase, no doubt, but not from within the boardroom. I have little doubt they will act if we look like we are going to be relegated but that isn''t the case in October/November/December-so he''ll be here for a while yet come what may. So lusting after Martin O''Neill is fanciful but it ain''t gonna happen yet, if ever.

 

The pressure CH is under from elements of the clubs support is very different to that he will be under from the club. When both are the same-then he should worry. But we''re way off that at the moment. 

 

[/quote]

 

In that case we''re stuffed!

 

However, if I''m right, there will soon come a time when his position becomes untenable

[Zak Van Burger 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"]

 

However, if I''m right, there will soon come a time when his position becomes untenable

[/quote]Right about what exactly?

[pete 318]

What a surprise you are on here spreading your vitriol, we have been down the line of quick fix managers it is longevity that brings success. Come on Chris prove the doubters wrong can''t think of better man for the job start with win Saturday. Onwards and upwards.

Wait for Wizard to reply at once to up his post count does this all the time e.g. see Bradders post an example of this simpleton''s approach.

Get Lost.

[*** 0]

[quote user="Zak Van Legwetter"][quote user="First Wizard"]

 

However, if I''m right, there will soon come a time when his position becomes untenable

[/quote]

Right about what exactly?
[/quote]

 

Us getting relegated if CH stays.................but you already knew that.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="First Wizard"][quote user="Zak Van Legwetter"][quote user="First Wizard"]

 

However, if I''m right, there will soon come a time when his position becomes untenable

[/quote]Right about what exactly?[/quote]

 

Us getting relegated if CH stays.................but you already knew that.

[/quote]I have no doubt you''ll be right wiz. No doubt at all.

Not

about us being relegated by Hughton that is. More just that you''ll

change you''re opinion so many times that, no matter what the outcome is,

you will have it in your head that you predicted it.That appears to be how your mind works.[;)]

[*** 0]

[quote user="pete"]What a surprise you are on here spreading your vitriol, we have been down the line of quick fix managers it is longevity that brings success. Come on Chris prove the doubters wrong can''t think of better man for the job start with win Saturday. Onwards and upwards. Wait for Wizard to reply at once to up his post count does this all the time e.g. see Bradders post an example of this simpleton''s approach. Get Lost.[/quote]

 

Thanks for the opportunity pete............now, get lost yourself.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Old Shuck"]

He''s under a lot of pressure from some of the supporters-but I doubt he is, in terms of job security, under much from the club hierachy.

 

Take remaining in the Premier League this season (and every season) as read. Its the secondary target or vision set to him and the coaching staff where he has to deliver this time around.

 

The club has said that real evidence of progress on the field is expected this season-league position not as important as signs and indications that the former is happening. I would imagine that, if we ''stay put'' this season-and I think we will-then the Summer 2014 recruitment drive will not be as frenetic as this Summers was and the core of players we currently have will be supplemented by no more than 2-3 new additions.

 

Thus this season we show we have the players and aptitude to go forward-and next season we show it in terms of results, performances and final league position-from day one. Summer 2013 was like year one, day one for the club again. The changes and revolution that started under DMcN and the new board, Lambert and into the early part of Hughton''s tenure here came to their natural end with the last day of last season and stage two began.

 

Better squad and players and, steadily, a new approach to how we play with a growing emphasis, even more than usual, on the youth set-up.

 

Thus CH won''t be judged solely on what happens on the pitch every Saturday/Sunday/whenever but what is going on at the club as a whole. He was appointed with continuity in mind and a holistic approach (ie) he oversees every footballing department of the club. His interest in same is already evident. I would guess that he knows Mark Robson very well from Tottenham and would have been involved with that appointment somewhere along the line.

 

The club will be desperate for him to be here long term. If he keeps us up, if progress is still seen to be made, in their eyes, he won''t be going anywhere. If we lose on Saturday the pressure and protest will increase, no doubt, but not from within the boardroom. I have little doubt they will act if we look like we are going to be relegated but that isn''t the case in October/November/December-so he''ll be here for a while yet come what may. So lusting after Martin O''Neill is fanciful but it ain''t gonna happen yet, if ever.

 

The pressure CH is under from elements of the clubs support is very different to that he will be under from the club. When both are the same-then he should worry. But we''re way off that at the moment. 

 

[/quote]

 

I agree with most of that post. But if a change was to be made then I suspect it would be before the end of the year. Before the winter transfer window, for which money has been set aside. So a new manager could bring in players of his choice. I think if Hughton is in place in January then he will be safe until the end of the season.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

Im surprised by the amount of people who consider Chris Hughton to be ''on the edge''. It would seem a large number of fans perceive Hughtons job to currently be under threat and that there is a sword of Damacles hanging over him everywhere he goes. Regardless of whether you want him out or want him to stay (ie disregard the wishful thinking) - do people really think his job is currently under threat? Because I dont. Performances have picked up if not results, fan faith has returned a little, and we''ve played 4 out of the top 6 in our first 8 games. I dont think Hughton''s job is in the least nit under threat, I think its probably business as usual at Carrow Road. Im amazed at the number of people who think he''s only got a few games left.

So my question is this - do people REALLY think his job is under threat, or is it just wishful thinking for some?

[/quote]

Why on earth would you be surprised by this ?, don''t you have access to a Premiership league table?

Cardiff on Saturday is absolutely critical for Hughton ,lose that, coupled with the fact that its Man City away next week ,we could be looking at being adrift in the bottom 3 after 10 games - over a quarter of the season. An no I wouldnt subscribe to the "we''ve had tough fixtures at the start of the season". By 10 games we will have played a fairly good cross section of teams from top,middle and bottom of the league. After 10 games you''re where you deserve to be.

I would urge you to ask yourself what you''re recation would have been back in August before a ball was kicked ,if you were told that after spending £25m ,that we would be in the relegation zone after 10 games?  Especially coupled with the fact that Hughton won 3 games in the whole of the 2nd half of last season??

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Whilst i''m on Hughtons side, it doesn''t suprise me:

1) the two teams below us in the table have already parted company with their managers.

2) bar the last two games, we had an incredibly poor end to last season.

3) Two of the teams above us have been linked with losing their managers (Fulham and Cardiff)

4) Hughton is the bookies favourite for the chop next.

If we beat Cardiff and at least one of West Ham or Palace, we can forget about this until at least Christmas, but if we fail to gain significant points in the next couple of fixtures, he could quite easily be sacked. 2013 has been by in large a bad year for Norwich on the pitch.

[Yellow Wal 314]

Are people who are calling for Hughton''s head blind (I know one of them is deaf). Have not you been able to see the performances in the last three games?

We picked up a good win at Stoke followed by a home defeat to one of the best teams in Europe, and 2nd in the Premiership, after being level at 1-1 after 85 minutes when most neutrals thought it might well be us to go on and take the three points.

We followed that by losing away from home to, again one of the best teams in Europe, Arsenal (1st in the Premiership), where we competed for most of the match and only because the manager ''went for it'' as so many on here advocate, we finished up losing 4-1.

Look at the goals scored against us in those two games - they included a wonder strike from Willian and one of the best team goals I have seen in my life!

We played well against very good opposition.

If we lose a few times against poor or even average opposition I would then, perhaps, agree that it was time for him to go.

[Dubai Mark 0]

Agree, and I doubt if his job security is any different to the start of the season right now, but could change of course as that''s football  and the pressures of the money at stake. 

[Syteanric 1]

All managers are under pressure and are only 2 or 3 bad games from the shove.

I think if we continue to play as well as we have done, results will come. all teams have a bad run in the season, perhaps ours is at the start....

I am confident we will achieve 12th or better and Hughton will be here for many years yet.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

Three games to me stand out as demonstrative of reasons to be worried: Tottenham (terrible performance, just rolled over, unlike against Chelsea and Arsenal), Hull away and Villa at home. Hull was terrible, as was Spurs. Very worrying signs throughout, and Villa, well... But, I dont think the games against Chelsea or Arsenal can be used against him. Yes we lost, but that was par for the course. What we didnt do was roll over and die in those games, like we have in other earlier games this season. I think there are definite signs of improvement.

Whilst I have never been entrenched in either the ''Hughton out'' or ''Hughton in'' camp, I was despearte for change last season. I hated the style of football. Even the wins we got werent through great football. I thought the unbeaten run was the blip rather than the rule. But I accepted that come the summer, new personnel, everything would change and that last season was a necessary evil in Hughtons mind. I was totally dismayed that nothing had changed when this season started. The same lack of creativity, the same ineffective brand of football, and after a few games, convinced the change wasnt coming, I too was calling for Hughtons head...

BUT... things have changed and they changed with the Stoke game. Stoke was a great performance after a previous dire one, and the performances and the approach have totally changed, with improvements very notable in Fer, Tettey and the addition of Olsson. Problem was we''ve played 2 of the best since the change. Ultimately we were destined to lose those games, but we came close to points. I think the change has come. Hughton needs to be judged on the winnable games since this change occurred. Arsenal and Chelsea arent included in this bracket. Judge him on the games we would hope to realistically get points from, and I agree if the progress doesnt continue and we dont get points in those games then he should move on. But I think the tide has turned...

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Diagree with the OP''s premise totally.

OK, I am prepared to accept that he''s not going to be fired on Sat night if we lose to Cardiff, but, as more than one poster has pointed out, the board are not stupid and have invested a hell of a lot of time and money this last few months. The inaccuracy stated by more than one poster, however, is that it''s not Chris Hughton they''ve invested in, but Norwich City Football Club Ltd. The two are NOT one and the same.

So, I really do think that this board do have a doomsday scenario in mind, and have no doubt that Hughton and his staff are living on borrowed time. They have been extremely professional and discreet about it, as there have been no leaks to the press, "votes of confidence" or any other such mind games. But, if anyone on here seriously thinks that the board have not made their views on the current situation to the management abundantly clear, targets set, and ultimatums issued, then they are seriously deluded.

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Diagree with the OP''s premise totally.

OK, I am prepared to accept that he''s not going to be fired on Sat night if we lose to Cardiff, but, as more than one poster has pointed out, the board are not stupid and have invested a hell of a lot of time and money this last few months. The inaccuracy stated by more than one poster, however, is that it''s not Chris Hughton they''ve invested in, but Norwich City Football Club Ltd. The two are NOT one and the same.

So, I really do think that this board do have a doomsday scenario in mind, and have no doubt that Hughton and his staff are living on borrowed time. They have been extremely professional and discreet about it, as there have been no leaks to the press, "votes of confidence" or any other such mind games. But, if anyone on here seriously thinks that the board have not made their views on the current situation to the management abundantly clear, targets set, and ultimatums issued, then they are seriously deluded.[/quote]

 

Literally true, of course. But in terms of backing Hughton''s judgment in the transfer market to a record amount and in terms of having lauded him as their number one choice to replace Lambert the directors have invested a great deal of their credibility in Hughton. Sacking him would involve reputational damage.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Diagree with the OP''s premise totally.

OK, I am prepared to accept that he''s not going to be fired on Sat night if we lose to Cardiff, but, as more than one poster has pointed out, the board are not stupid and have invested a hell of a lot of time and money this last few months. The inaccuracy stated by more than one poster, however, is that it''s not Chris Hughton they''ve invested in, but Norwich City Football Club Ltd. The two are NOT one and the same.

So, I really do think that this board do have a doomsday scenario in mind, and have no doubt that Hughton and his staff are living on borrowed time. They have been extremely professional and discreet about it, as there have been no leaks to the press, "votes of confidence" or any other such mind games. But, if anyone on here seriously thinks that the board have not made their views on the current situation to the management abundantly clear, targets set, and ultimatums issued, then they are seriously deluded.[/quote]Ohh, the drama!It''s called contingency planning. Good upper managers of businesses to it very well. I have no doubt that a contingency plan that was constantly evolving was put into place the second it was clear Paul Lambert was on the way out.Equally. I''m sure McNally has had a contingency plan evolving from day 1 of Hughton being manager of NCFC. It''s what good upper managers do. It''s why the get paid so well. That doesn''t mean he''s on the way out. Managers could leave for a number of reasons (which is why it''s sometimes known as the "hit by a bus" plan)But to link this to "borrowed time", and "ultimatums" is just nonsense.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

I''d like to know what evidence you have for that Reggie.

I attended the supporters forum about two weeks ago when David McNally gave a presentation, which included a discussion of the Club''s league position. He stated that his view was that we did not deserve to be in the bottom three and everything that he outlined was extremely positive in terms of the Club''s ongoing development.

I see no prospect of the Club considering CH''s position in the short term. Certainly not until half the season has gone.

As others have mentioned, we''ve actually performed quite well in the last month on the pitch and but for some tough games we would probably have more points on the board. We now have winnable games coming up, especially the next 5 home games and they will take us up to Christmas, at which time we can make a much more informed assessment of how the side is performing and where we are likely to finish. If we are still in the bottom three at Christmas then maybe there will be cause for a review but the way we''re playing I''m pretty confident in a month''s time that we will be in mid-table.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Yes, Theo, and part of good upper management''s contingency plans involve, targets, appraisals and performance reviews. All of which, classically, should be quantifiable and time-based.

Maybe the terms "doomsday scenario" is one you find over dramatic . Maybe it is, but, as I say, if you seriously believe that CH has not had what amounts to a target/ultimatum set for him, then it''s you that''s talking the nonsense, not me.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

The other thing I was going to mention is that McNally stated that in terms of wage and transfer budget we were 19th out of 20 in the PL last season, and we are 19th out of 20 this season. So even though we''ve invested heavily, that doesn''t mean that we should suddenly expect to be romping through this league.

We spent some £25m in the summer which was huge for us and inevitably raised expectations, but on Saturday we lost to a side who had one player signed for nearly double that fee. That''s the magnitude of what we''re up against and we need to keep some perspective.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]I''d like to know what evidence you have for that Reggie.

I attended the supporters forum about two weeks ago when David McNally gave a presentation, which included a discussion of the Club''s league position. He stated that his view was that we did not deserve to be in the bottom three and everything that he outlined was extremely positive in terms of the Club''s ongoing development.

I see no prospect of the Club considering CH''s position in the short term. Certainly not until half the season has gone.

As others have mentioned, we''ve actually performed quite well in the last month on the pitch and but for some tough games we would probably have more points on the board. We now have winnable games coming up, especially the next 5 home games and they will take us up to Christmas, at which time we can make a much more informed assessment of how the side is performing and where we are likely to finish. If we are still in the bottom three at Christmas then maybe there will be cause for a review but the way we''re playing I''m pretty confident in a month''s time that we will be in mid-table.[/quote]

Agree with the basis of that Beefy. That''s why I said I''m sure there is some wriggle room over the next few weeks for CH. Leaving it as far as Xmas, may be pushing it; depends on results really.

Of course there is no direct proof, one way or the other, of the board''s strategy. As I said, they have been very discreet. What did you expect...them to turn up at this fans meeting saying CH would face the sack if he did not win , say 7 out of 10 matches ??!! That''s not how this group of people operate. But , being the thorough, professional people they are, I''m absolutely certain they are not ones just to sit on their hands and watch City plummet. But, let''s hope that this is all academic anyway ?

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

[quote user="Beefy is a legend"]The other thing I was going to mention is that McNally stated that in terms of wage and transfer budget we were 19th out of 20 in the PL last season, and we are 19th out of 20 this season. So even though we''ve invested heavily, that doesn''t mean that we should suddenly expect to be romping through this league.

We spent some £25m in the summer which was huge for us and inevitably raised expectations, but on Saturday we lost to a side who had one player signed for nearly double that fee. That''s the magnitude of what we''re up against and we need to keep some perspective.[/quote]

 

Not at all sure he can know that for certain. He may have an inkling (and a guess would be that Palace are 20th) but that kind of hard information won''t be revealed for a year, when the accounts for this season for all 20 clubs are published.

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Yes, Theo, and part of good upper management''s contingency plans involve, targets, appraisals and performance reviews. All of which, classically, should be quantifiable and time-based.

Maybe the terms "doomsday scenario" is one you find over dramatic . Maybe it is, but, as I say, if you seriously believe that CH has not had what amounts to a target/ultimatum set for him, then it''s you that''s talking the nonsense, not me.[/quote]It''s well known in modern management that "ultimatums" rarely work, as all the do is add tension and reduce moral.However, I''m sure CH has KPI''s and targets to meet. I''d bet non of them are measured after 8 games though.

[Beefy is a legend 224]

Agree Purple, he''s not going to have access to every other Club''s budget for the season clearly. However, he can obviously estimate our position based upon the spending of other Clubs and he will have a pretty good idea from a variety of sources as to the kind of wages that other Clubs are paying, so he can make a pretty educated estimate on where we are.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Yes, Theo, and part of good upper management''s contingency plans involve, targets, appraisals and performance reviews. All of which, classically, should be quantifiable and time-based.

Maybe the terms "doomsday scenario" is one you find over dramatic . Maybe it is, but, as I say, if you seriously believe that CH has not had what amounts to a target/ultimatum set for him, then it''s you that''s talking the nonsense, not me.[/quote]It''s well known in modern management that "ultimatums" rarely work, as all the do is add tension and reduce moral.However, I''m sure CH has KPI''s and targets to meet. I''d bet non of them are measured after 8 games though.[/quote]

With respect, Theo, I never suggested that the final analysis would be after 8 games ! In the end you can use whatever word you like to describe objectives. I''m equally sure that they have been made pretty clear to CH.

As I said in my reply to Beefy, I think Xmas would be pushing it, particularly if things are not going our way in Nov/Dec.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,076]

So, with respect to the feelings of the board, do people think he has a few games left and is hanging on in there, or do people think he has at least until the January transfer window? The former suggesting he is on the brink, the latter suggesting there are concerns, but no great panic at this time?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

I know I might sound like Nutty Nige here, but I''m not sure whether either of those SPECIFIC alternatives is necessarily the case, Debater.

My belief is that he''s not on the brink, per se, but he''s been given notice. I''m sure that the board are not panicking, but they will have concerns, as most of the saner members of this forum do.

If I'' was to jump one way or the other, then I''d say that the former of your two options is the more likely unless results improve fast.