if fers "goal" had been the last kick of the season that kept us up ?

[pyjamas 0]

Hi, Crabby.

Where there are any grey areas, I say let the referee decide the outcome. If a Norwich player took advantage of the situation by diving and the referee allowed it, so be it. If the opposition also dive, then I can accept that, too.

[Sussexyellow 55]

[quote user="pyjamas"]Are there points awarded for fair play? Nope. Points are awarded for putting the ball in the back of the opposition''s net more often than they do in yours.

Save the sentimentality for the Sunday league pub team games. This is professional football we are talking about, not a children''s game of marbles or tiddly-winks. Any player who does not set out to score at any cost (within the rules of the game) would be guilty of professional negligence and no longer play any part in my team.

Of course, neither should we expect any quarter spared, but as far as I''m concerned, and within the rules of the game, anything is permitted. To argue otherwise is just being childish.

If Hughton really did make those comments about letting Swansea score, he should be summarily dismissed. There are no excuses for that kind of fecklessness in the Premier League.[/quote]

Summarily dismissed - ridiculous comment. As is much of the rest of your post.

Still I note that you have a handful of posts in 18 months yet you decide to come out to play in the middle of the night with a number of posts. So a second or third account suddenly revived. Whose alias are you pyjamas.

In time honoured tradition - BINNER

[pyjamas 0]

"Summarily dismissed - ridiculous comment. As is much of the rest of your post.

Still I note that you have a handful of posts in 18 months yet you decide to come out to play in the middle of the night with a number of posts. So a second or third account suddenly revived. Whose alias are you pyjamas.

In time honoured tradition - BINNER"

Here we go again. Yet another twit from the "I disagree with you so you must be an Ipswich fan" school of plonkers.

I want a manager with killer instinct, not someone who talks like he belongs at a line dancing convention. I''ve seen Morris dancers with bigger cojones. Hughton''s feeble leadership has, among other things, seen cocky Robert put the ass in Snodgrass, and yet when a player shows some initiative, the happy-clappy faithful put the boots into him. Go figure.

Oh, and Champ, I''ll post when I feel like it.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Depending on where Cardiff were in the table, i''d turn to Malkay (if they were already safe or relegated) and say "look pal, it''s a bad way to win, but we''ve got a business to run. I hope you understand" and take the goal. The rules of football do not say you have to give a goal back.

Look at the Suarez handball on the line vs Ghana in the world cup. If he hadn''t done it, they were going home, he adopted a win at all costs mentality. There was nothing sly about what he did, he took his punishment of a red card and a conceded penalty as the rules state and lo and behold, Uruguay won!

The fact is to score a goal, you have to legitimately beat 11 players and get the ball over the line. There is nothing wrong with Suarez handballing on the line, it''s not in the same league as diving to win a penalty and trying to con the referee, it''s written in the rules, so it''s there to be broken if you are prepaered to suffer the consequences.

Back to the should we give a goal debate, I think if we won like that, the summer and the next season or in fact few seasons would be tough for us as fans as everyone else would be at us for doing it.

[PKC 0]

While I will accept the argument that Fer should not have put the ball in the net I''m not buying the ''Marshall was doing us a favour'' argument.

I think he was just finding another way to waste time as he had been doing for most of the second half, and yes I realise that in the same situation Ruddy would be doing the same; but answer this would the ball have been kicked out hat cardiff been one down?

[snake-eyes 13]

I am kind of glad this has happened, because I feel it raises some very serious issues.

 

Many have talked about the ''Spirit'' of the game, and it was this that was broken. I friend of mine yesterday said it was a disgraceful act and the referee was right to disallow the goal.  I questioned him on two points. The first on the actual legality of the referees decision within the laws of the game and the fact time wasting is also against the spirit of the game, to the extent that it is actually punishable. His response was that timewasting was an accepted practice therefore ok.  Even though it is against the laws and spirit of the game.

 

As to the legality I will come back to the implications of this later, however the ''Sportsmanship'' issue is one that has bugged me more and more in recent years.

 

Sportsmanship for me has become a reference of convenience.  It is only ever refered to when it suits whichever party is aggrieved.  Would you find a manager willing to concede an equalising goal if he knows that one of his players dives for a penalty, gets it and scores?  The simple answer is no! Would you see a manager actively condemn one of his players for feigning injury to get a player sent of and telling the ref not to send the player off?  No!  However they would plead injustice if this happens against them. Fergie time is a classic example.  Are his antics within the ''Spirit'' of the game?  Cardiff and especially Marshall have now been caught deliberately time-wasting in two consecutive games and have screamed injustice because on both occassion the officialls have failed to recognise it and players have become so frustrated they have taken it upon themselves to inflict their own kind of punishment.  Is this deliberate act by a team and surely encouraged by the Manager (He has not said it was wrong), in the ''Spirit'' of the game?

 

For me most so called sportsmanship acts in Professional football are fake.  Very rarely do we see true acts of concience. (Di Canio catching the ball when the keeper suffered a head injury?).  With regards to putting the ball out for an injured player, for me it is up to the referee to stop the game if he feels it serious enough.  If not play on.  It is so open to abuse that it is no longer used as a sporting gesture, but as an obligation for which you get nothing back from, or as in Saturday, a time delaying tactic.

 

I believe in the spirit of the game, however the outrage and condemnation of Fer yesterday was so Hypocritical it was laughable.  If football does not want to have further examples of this, it needs to get a grip of the real breaches of cheating and sportsmanship. Start enforcing the laws properly with retrospective action for cheating and we may just rediscover the soul of the game.

 

As for the referee, he has set a very dangerous precedent.  Firstly, he has used the excuse that he did not signal for the throw in to be taken by blowing his whistle, this now means that every referee must blow their whistle for every restart.  If not then teams can argue if something happens against them from a restart, when the whistle has not been blown.  Secondly, the referee has circumvented the laws of the game and acted outside of his remit and powers.  He failed to apply the laws of the game for which he is employed to do.  Does this mean that all laws can be bypassed if the referee feels it is in the best interest of the game?  In what scenarios can they use this ''Interpretation''?

 

I am not advocating what Leroy Fer did, but I can understand why.  For me the situation should never have occured, however due to a weak referee it did.

 

When so much is at stake, massive amounts of money involved and players/ coaches/ managers jobs, how can we fully expect the spirit of the game to be truly adhered to and embraced?

 

Football is no longer a game, but a business.

 

Snake

[Sussexyellow 55]

Snake - it seems a characteristic of this board that interesting, well thought out posts like your one gets ignored.

You make lots of valid points and I agree with much of what you say. As you rightly point out there are many issues where a grip needs to be got. I also think you correctly analyse why their is a reluctance to do so.

The one point I am less sure about is on the referee restarting the game. I may be wrong but when the referees attention is diverted to attending to an injured player - Tettey on Saturday - and the game as far as he is concerned has stopped, then it is normal for the referee to then give the signal when he is ready for the game to restart. 

[Sussexyellow 55]

"there" not "their"! 

Edit button please!

[snake-eyes 13]

Thanks Sussex.

If you read Graham Poll in the Mail today there is a photo clearly showing the ref signalling for play to begin.

For all Poll''s faults his assessment is spot on!

Snake

[Zachariah Lovespoon 0]

I''d have happily taken it Saturday let alone the end of the season. Cardiff were waisting time almost from the second the ref started the second half. And I''d bet my last pound that had we have been one up Marshall would''ve booted as far up the field as he could. Since when has time waisting been "gentlemanly conduct"? The goal should''ve stood and it would''ve been just deserts.

[Sussexyellow 55]

I had not seen that article - thanks for pointing me to it. An interesting analysis, with much merit. 

I  note that the commentary under the key photo is that the picture shows Jones "appearing" to signal to restart play. Carefully worded! But really highlights the ambiguity of such gestures which I guess is what you were referring to by dangerous precedents and the need to always blow the whistle.