Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Paul

Since 10 game unbeaten run

Recommended Posts

Since we had our unbeaten run of 10 games last season our league record is as follows:

P: 30

W: 6

D: 9

L: 15

GF: 28

GA: 46

That would give us just 27 points and a win % of 20%, with less than a goal a game scored and more than 1.5 goals a game conceded.

How many managers would still have their jobs with a record like that? This coupled with the style of football we play makes for depressing reading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Regrettably the numbers and associated statistics say far more than yet another ''Hootun Out'' thread.

The reality is there are very very few mangers of any league club ket alone Premiership club that could reasonably expect to keep their job based on a set of numbers like that.

What we do know is both the Chief Exec and certainly the Chairman have very much staked their reputations on delivering very much more attractive sets of numbers than that, sadly I suspect it won''t be long before they act.

It''s a shame as I like the bloke, he''s brought in some really good players but the Sword of Damocles is above is head.

One final thought, had he have brought in some better quality in his back room staff I think we''d be having a very different conversation, his choice, he didn''t, the price is, well, we know what the answer is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
how many managers would do better with a club that is 15th in the league of "money spent on players" ...

not sure of the answer and i admit we arent playing well but tis the reality of being a small club in the premiership at the moment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Do you know, that if you forget all the games we''ve won under Hughton, we haven''t won a single game under Hughton? Disgraceful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="splutcho"]Do you know, that if you forget all the games we''ve won under Hughton, we haven''t won a single game under Hughton? Disgraceful.[/quote]

and if you discount all the games we''ve lost, then we are unbeaten.

moron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="splutcho"]Do you know, that if you forget all the games we''ve won under Hughton, we haven''t won a single game under Hughton? Disgraceful.[/quote]

[:D]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well said Splutcho. The end of unbeaten run also coincided with Ruddy getting injured. When he regained fitness we started winning again, albeit against teams who didn''t care about their fans or club so let us beat them. Don''t underestimate this - see Norwich being relegated when Gunn got injured.This season we started poorly but for the last month we have played well with some good attacking football. We beat Stoke away and dominated them, we lost to two title contenders and battered Cardiff but sadly didn''t get our just deserts.  There were good signs in the Cardiff game of the midfield getting slide rule passes through to Hooper (2 or 3 occasions) and you could see, if you choose to, how the midfield and forwards were starting to link.Last night was awful in terms of result and injuries, although I''m sure some of you are delighted that Snodgrass is injured, but against a side which put out a much stronger team than we did. Last season is gone. We finished 11th which is where we deservedly finished however much people want to spin statistics. For the last month we have played well and there are good signs going forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Percy Banquo''s ghost.

 

However, as they say the top teams play badly and still win, and conversely we are playing OK/well and not getting wins we need for points and confidence, which would mean a relegation spiral if it happened or continued later in the season.

 

I''m sure there will be a change if this continues but... i''d much rather we, say, got a dodgy goal allowed in the last minutes of a home banker that wins it for us... acting as a springboard for converting our future performances into staying-up form and vindicating the retention of the current manager during the bad patches.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How the heck can people justify recent performances. What planet are you from?! Spin? Try fact. These are facts. A 20% win ratio is shocking at any level and I think validates a "debate" on his future.

Personally, I''ve switched from pro to negative Hughton over the last couple of games. I like Hughton. I really do. He''s brilliant at bringing good players in. I just don''t think he has a plan B. I don''t believe he has enough tactical awareness to change games and there are serious concerns over his backroom staff coaching.

Don''t believe the fans? Well I think you should Google what Holt thinks of his style, or Morison. Both have been critical in recent months, and they worked with him day in, day out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Michael Starr"]How the heck can people justify recent performances. What planet are you from?! Spin? Try fact. These are facts. A 20% win ratio is shocking at any level and I think validates a "debate" on his future. [/quote]Michael, the spin aspect refers to our victories at the end of last season as I wrote. No one is spinning anything else, except perhaps disgruntled employees who were let go. I remember how highly poster valued Morison so it must be true to now value his opinions.So after two games, one away to Man United which we lost and one at home against a team we battered but didn''t win and you''ve changed your mind from pro to negative? Fair enough then, that makes sense.As for the current theme of bashing the coaching set up and the lack of an offensive coach, wassgorn on in traynun Neyal? Do you know? I don''t as don''t have time to venture down to Colney during the day to see the training sessions. Do you? Who has an informed opinion as I''d like to hear it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The Ghost of Percy Varco"]Michael, the spin aspect refers to our victories at the end of last season as I wrote. [/quote]Ignore that comment, as I should have re-read my initial post. The problem about having a busy job! Haha! We still finished 11th, the club''s 4th highest finish in our history I believe?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My opinion of Hughton has been drifting further into the abyss throughout 2013... the last two games specifically was the tipping point for me where my positive towards Hughton switched to negative.

The Cardiff game was bitterly disappointing. That was a must win game and we failed to win. When it was clear we needed a change, Hughton took Hooper off, the only player looking capable of cutting Cardiff open and replaced him with a player who, being kind, is looking more and more Championship class with each game.

This desire to keep playing Snodgrass week in, week out when his form is so clearly off in many games. The ability to somehow turn Garrido and Hoolahan into poor versions of their former selves.

The fact that our players switch off. Bassong, Snodgrass, Fer and Johnson... Johnson! How is he getting games?! The most frustrating player this season. The prime "give the ball away" culprit.

Some of these performances this year have been completely and utterly devoid of any form of quality. We have good players so clearly it''s the way the players are being set-up.... clearly something is very wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It''s a very very poor historical record Paul! and the shocking thing is it continues. I sometimes wish I was able to bury my head in the sand like so many on here and pretend it''s not happening. I was worried about the way things were going in March and the situation just continues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Paul"][quote user="splutcho"]Do you know, that if you forget all the games we''ve won under Hughton, we haven''t won a single game under Hughton? Disgraceful.[/quote] and if you discount all the games we''ve lost, then we are unbeaten. moron[/quote]

 

WTF? Why call him a moron just because he put out a different opinion to yours?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''m not burying my head in the sand at all VanWink. This season, and let''s stick to this season otherwise we can both choose ranges of games or statistics to prove our point, we have had some poor performances at the start. Hull and Spurs were both poor. Everton and Southampton we played well in. Villa we played well in but didn''t get the result we wanted (losing to Lambert will always be a sore point to many and the effect multiplied). Since then, except for last night we have played much better and taken games to teams without always the results we deserve.If the team hadn''t been developing/gelling over the last month then I would totally concede your point but that''s not the case and obviously if we continue to be in the relegation zone for a period of time then a change would be needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So if a Win Ratio of 20% isn''t enough to seriously consider the mangers position then the obvious question is just how bad does it have to get?

Rightly or wrongly the two good wins at the end of last season have somehow skewed the data, as far as the opposition were concerned they were pretty much dead rubbers so take that out of the equation and then have a look.

Of course they were both good performances but the recurrent theme is this, they added something of a veneer of respecticability to an otherwise very very disappointing 2013 and so you come back to the central question.

Just how bad do things have to get before the senior mangament are no longer willing to tolerate the lack of results?

Its there before all of our eyes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Percy wrote

If the team hadn''t been developing/gelling over the last month then I would totally concede your point but that''s not the case and obviously if we continue to be in the relegation zone for a period of time then a change would be needed.

Sorry Percy but you must be seeing something very different to me! October stats show 11 goals against and 2 for and our club sitting in the bottom 3.

Our improved defence which was vaunted as the huge step forward last season has let in eleven goals, and we can only muster 2 goals having signed some very decent forward options?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Vanwink"]Percy wrote

If the team hadn''t been developing/gelling over the last month then I would totally concede your point but that''s not the case and obviously if we continue to be in the relegation zone for a period of time then a change would be needed.

Sorry Percy but you must be seeing something very different to me! October stats show 11 goals against and 2 for and our club sitting in the bottom 3.

Our improved defence which was vaunted as the huge step forward last season has let in eleven goals, and we can only muster 2 goals having signed some very decent forward options?[/quote]Apologies, VanWink I was looking at Premier League games and thought that Stoke was within the last month as that is when the improvement has clearly begun. Do you honestly not see that?I agree though that we should have hammered Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This a repeat of something I posted on another thread but feel it is apposite.

 

If we must compare past results and league positions, etc, then let''s at least look at a rolling season, so it includes 38 games.

 

By my calculation that would give us 45 points, one more than last season, although in last year''s final league table that would still leave us in 11th position, even if it was WHU we took the point off.

 

Even if we had dropped another 9 points last year we would probably still have stayed in the Prem (on goal difference).

 

If we compare last year with this, then we could have lost the games we drew against Villa, Reading & Everton, and drawn the games we won against, Arsenal, Stoke & Man Utd and we would still have been safe (all these games were in our unbeaten run).  This would have reduced the unbeaten run to 4, so perhaps it was not so important, or did not play such a massive part in our survival as many think.

 

Plus IMO we are playing some of the best football I''ve seen for a while with two strikers who are only 9 games into their Premier League careers having each suffered early season injuries.

 

Does any of this guarantee anything, no, but neither does all the other talk on here about form and past results.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Percy wrote

I agree though that we should have hammered Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal.

Not sure what your saying here Percy, if we are progressing as a team, which is the thrust of your argument, I would not expect us to be conceding goals at the alarming rate we have been even against the likes of Man U and Arsenal, would you?

You stated in your post the last month as a period of improvement which is why I responded drawing your attention to the last months goal difference!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why not just this season because it''s relevant. Or his record as a whole because it would be fair. Anything else is just picking and choosing to suit an agenda.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I''m pretty sure we are fighting a losing argument against each other here VanWink but a civil debate is good to see!Last night was awful. I see that, you see that. We played a vastly understrength team and Man Utd didn''t to the same degree. It wasn''t inspiring, particularly on a buffering internet stream but we didn''t look out of it until Snodgrass went off and just prior to that we seemed to be getting more of a foothold in the game. Yesterday''s game was far removed from the last 4 premier league games in terms of personnel and play.We would all hope to keep clean sheets against the best teams in Europe but the reality of it is that that rarely happens and they have the quality, especially towards the end of games to turn the screw by bringing on quality substitutions to affect the game. Chelsea brought on Hazard and Willian, Arsenal brought on Ramsey (albeit earlier), Man Utd brought on Rooney. We brought on Redmond et al. In all 3 of these games we conceded two late goals which flattered the scoreline which you could say is our defensive failings but has more to do with the quality they could bring on. We all appreciate it is a results based business and ultimately this is what will define our season. Yes in hindsight we, including Hughton, would all do things differently but you can''t seriously compare the style and performances of the last 4 Premier League games with the 4 games prior to that and say there has been no improvement. Can you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It depends how you define improvement Percy, ultimately the only measure is the result so on that bases your argument is lost.

I follow your argument in that you are suggesting that we are now playing a more expansive style, creating more chances and looking a little more comfortable on the ball, I would accept that? (The inability to convert chances however, particularly in the Cardiff game is a real worry.) The problem however is that by opening up our game we are now showing defensive frailties and I suspect this leaves the manager and the team confused about our approach in the future leading to more indecision.

I still think our movement off the ball is poor but that has improved I would agree.

The manager and his team, beating an old drum, have shown no inclination to change their approach to using subs and using tactical changes to effect the outcome, the lack of improvement here is a very worrying aspect, they have shown an inability or unwillingness to learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Michael Starr"] Hughton took Hooper off, the only player looking capable of cutting Cardiff open and replaced him with a player who, being kind, is looking more and more Championship class with each game.  [/quote]

Hooper never really looked likely to cut Cardiff open. He had got a bit more lively as the game went on but he was never a serious threat to them, they were always fairly comfortable.

 

But you''re right about Elmander.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]We''ve won 4 of our last 11 league games. A win percentage of 36%You can make the stats say whatever you like. You just need to think about where to draw the line.[/quote]

There are two valid sets of statistics that have no bias in them. One is Hughton''s overall Premier League record at Norwich City, which is:W 12, D 16, L 19, with a 47-71 goal difference.The other is his record this season, with the summer signings included, and that is:W2, D 2, L 5, with a 6-13 goal difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...