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The Great Mass Debater

What does Hughton need to achieve to get the fans on side?

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Was thinking about the Michael Turner situation. Played pretty badly when he first came to the club. Many fans saying they had never seen such a poor defender. He really did look a turkey and he had a huge amount of fans on his back. It was tough, but now, noone slags Turner off and most seem to recognise his good qualities.

 

Turner turned it around (maybe is name is apt). We''re all aware of the problems with the team at the moment, dont think this post requires people to state what is wrong, but what does Hughton need to achieve to get the support of those fans who are against him? Or is his position irretrievable?

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Some fans are so fickle he will never get them back.Every win from now on will be "lucky", every good performance will be "the players ignoring Hughton''s instructions"Some will begrudgingly stop moaning for a bit if we simply win more games. But will likely bemoan the style we win them in lol.Just look at the two ways last season are described :-"Highest league position ever""Lucky to stay up after flirting with relegation all season"Sadly Hughton is never going to please everybody.

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How about more than 6 wins from the next 30 games, getting his forwards to score, and his defenders to defend better starting with Man City on Saturday.

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[quote user="City 2nd"]How about more than 6 wins from the next 30 games, getting his forwards to score, and his defenders to defend better starting with Man City on Saturday.[/quote]

 

Nail on head.

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Easy........Change things that are broken, sack Trollope & Calderwood and bring in new ballanced coaching who can coach the entire team, motivate the player and give them the confidence that they are good enough to get a result against any team.

 

If you are a manager and you have sub manager who are not doing the job they are employed to do, you change them out or you pay the price for poor results. The same for Hughton, I want him to do well.

 

If he can''t do that then he''s not a manager, just a NCFC employee.

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The impossible. He''ll have to go on to break goalscoring and points total records. He''s lost quite a few fans now and can''t see him winning them back.

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It''s an interesting question and in short I think he has gone past the point of no-return. It''s already at the stage where every decision that he makes is drilled down to the nth degree in order to pick fault with it. The team selection at Man United on Tuesday being a prime example. To that end, if we won a string of games I doubt that he''d be apportioned the credit in the same way he''d get the blame while we''re losing.

 

The example of Turner is an interesting one, if fans said they''d never seen such a poor defender the old memories must have been playing up...what about that Doherty....?

 

Doherty split the fans too. If you wanted the name of a crap defender that played for Norwich, how about Jens Berthel-Askou? Yet he was lauded in some areas despite having the ability to control a ball further than I can kick it.

 

Football divides opinions, if it didn''t, this message board wouldn''t exist but in truth Hughton has been on a loser for a long, long time. Losing 0-5 at Fulham didn''t help (Who played in defence that day?) but this season especially. The fact that sections of our fans were making excuses for us winning at the end of last season was indicative of the task facing him this season, we''ve started slowly (again) and so it''s inevitable that the fans that want him out get louder as those who don''t have less to shout about.

 

The real shame is that the division amongst the fans helps nobody, it destroys the atmosphere in the ground, the Villas-Boas comments prove that this is picked up by the players and the staff. When all said and done, all anyone wants is what is best for Norwich City, if it was possible to strip emotion out of the equation...

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[quote user="City 2nd"]How about more than 6 wins from the next 30 games, getting his forwards to score, and his defenders to defend better starting with Man City on Saturday.[/quote]You could make the argument that 2 of these are already happening.How about more than 6 wins from the next 30 games: 4 wins from the last 11! Has he started to turn the ship around? his defenders to defend better: In our last 4 league games, we''ve kept 2 clean sheets. We only conceded late goals v Chelsea & Arsenal when Hughton was pushing them forward trying to get something out of the game - which ironically has been something the Hughton Out brigade were screaming for 4 games ago!I''ll admit the lack of goals is a concern. The only excuse I can offer is that it can take new forwards time to bed in. (e.g. Soldado is hardly banging them in for fun at Spurs)

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Herman wrote the following post at 2013-10-31 2:45 PM:

The impossible. He''ll have to go on to break goalscoring and points total records. He''s lost quite a few fans now and can''t see him winning them back.

I don''t think it''s impossible for him to turn it round Herman, and I do think he could get many fans back on board with a couple of wins in the immediate future. A couple of wins would push us well up to halfway, and that would hopefully pre-empt a run like last seasons 10 unbeaten, and improvement, which is what the fans, but more importantly the board, are looking for. It will not be overlooked by the board that 30 million+ has been spent! and they expect some return for it for sure. However, my fear is that CH has left things far too late for himself in this respect, with a poor start to this season coupled with a poor second half of last season. Yes I know and realise we finished 11th, but that is the only improvement seen since the 10 match run ended. We certainly lack a cutting edge, and CH doesn''t seem able to change not only his fortunes, but those of his players and the supporters. Many think I would like to see him out, I admit I am not a great admirer of his style of play, but I would be happy just to see us winning - and we just don''t seem able too whatever he does to try to change things - and that will be his nemesis as far as the board are concerned I fear.

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 Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

 

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

 

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

 

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

 

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

 

Become taller.

 

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

 

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

 

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

 

Save a child from a burning building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

 Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

 

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

 

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

 

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

 

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

 

Become taller.

 

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

 

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

 

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

 

Save a child from a burning building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Brilliant[:D]

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Sorry Theo, but whilst you league stats on goals conceded looks sound - you cannot overlook that we have conceded 11 in the last four matches. It doesn''t matter when they are conceded in the match - they were conceded.

And seriously, do you think four wins from eleven is acceptable, 12 points from a possible 33, and considering Villa, Hull and Cardiiff results.

Yes you could make an argument two of these are already happening - but they aren''t for me, there is no consistency to that equation.

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Change of Identity?...

I think for a certain vocal section it would take string of wins and a comfortable top half finish, and probably the FA Cup.

Said it elsewhere, but it just seems to me now like a Titanic moment and he is just heading slowly and inexorably for the sack.

But personally he''s got to the end of Nov to prove me wrong, and I''d be honestly happier if he did, as it would mean we were sitting a lot more comfortably in the table.

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[quote user="City 2nd"]Sorry Theo, but whilst you league stats on goals conceded looks sound - you cannot overlook that we have conceded 11 in the last four matches. It doesn''t matter when they are conceded in the match - they were conceded.

And seriously, do you think four wins from eleven is acceptable, 12 points from a possible 33, and considering Villa, Hull and Cardiiff results.

Yes you could make an argument two of these are already happening - but they aren''t for me, there is no consistency to that equation.[/quote]you cannot overlook that we have conceded 11 in the last four matches. Equally, we have conceded 11 in our last 5 matches, with 2 clean sheets. [;)]And seriously, do you think four wins from eleven is acceptable. In this league?. 36% win percentage? Better percentage than Lambert achieved with us the PL!12 points from a possible 33. Splitting hairs, but you have conveniently left out 2 draws. So, 14 points from 11 games. On track for 48 points over the season at that rate.At the end of the day the stats prove nothing. You can always find some stat somewhere to support your own opinion, whatever it is. What I''m more interested in is whats going to happen in the next 4 matches and beyond. Stats aside, I think we''re playing decent football right now, and hopefully the results show it soon.

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[quote user="TCCANARY"]

 Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

 

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

 

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

 

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

 

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

 

Become taller.

 

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

 

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

 

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

 

Save a child from a burning building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Excellent! The only one you missed is freeze energy prices for 20 months.

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Learn Glaswegian and adopt a Keegan-style footballing mentality. Also, achieving back-to-back promotions from League One would help.

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[quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

 

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

 

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

 

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

 

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

 

Become taller.

 

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

 

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

 

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

 

Save a child from a burning building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

Excellent!

The only one you missed is freeze energy prices for 20 months.
[/quote]

 

Change the route of HS2 so that it goes from Norwich to anywhere City fans want it to.

 

 

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[quote user="TCCANARY"][quote user="Nuff Said"][quote user="TCCANARY"]

 Come up with a viable plan to increase the capacity of the City Stand whilst still maintaining the current attendances ensuring that those who currently sit in the City Stand have perect views of the action.

 

Make it easier to browse and purchase items in the club shop on a match day.

 

Ensure that all supporters have acces to free WIFI at Carrow Rd.

 

Write Grant Holt a letter of apology.

 

Make a statue of Paul Lambert out of Midget Gems.

 

Become taller.

 

Start every press conference by biting the head off of an effergy of the manager of the next opponents, spitting in the hole and declaring death to anyone remotely connected with that club.

 

Immediately substitue any player that miss-places a pass, fails to dribble pass the entire opposition or looks dis-interested.

 

Tie a piece of cotton to the door handle on the home dressing room thats long enough to cope with any journey that he takes away from Carrow Rd so that he never loses it.

 

Save a child from a burning building.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[/quote]Excellent! The only one you missed is freeze energy prices for 20 months.[/quote]

 

Change the route of HS2 so that it goes from Norwich to anywhere City fans want it to.

 

 

[/quote]....while bypassing Ipswich

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agree with a few of the points made.

Hughton will NEVER win some fans back, he could take us to the top half, win the FA Cup, we could even win the prem, the champions league and the world club cup! and there would still a small minority ( and it is a minority) who hate him and want him out...

it is because he isn''t Lambert. no other reason. Anyone who see''s the bigger picture can see why sacking Hughton would end in disaster and probably relegation.

If we do sack him and the next incumbent takes us down then he got "Hughton''s team" relegated... lack of success in subsequent years would be accepted by the fans and we would end up where we were after relegation in 1995...

conversely if a new manager came in and got the current squad winning and moving on up then it would be "his squad.... playing the right way now that Hughton has gone!"

McNally know''s what he is doing... if he backs Hughton then, like it or not, the fans will have to accept that decision.

Hoots really cant win, deep down he probably knows that. He speaks well and I think cares about the club, the players and the majority of fans. he always looks gutted when we lose!

I maintain he is the man for the job, will once again take us to safety and a possible top half finish this season... the future is good with Hughton sewign the seeds.

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Well Theo, I''m afraid I''m with City 2nd on this. You are cherry picking facts to an incredible degree. It shows how fickle fans are......

......which brings me nicely onto my main point. I''ve no doubt that if by some amazing quirk of fate we do stop giving away stupid goals, RvW and Hooper begin banging them in for fun, we win a large percentage of our games and are challenging for a top half place, then all CH''s past misdemeanours will be forgotten by all but the hard core of Hughton Outers . I really do not agree that he has gone past the point of no return. But that point is VERY fast approaching.

I am equally sure that people will be prepared to overlook things if we see some displays that are overtly negative, as long as they result in 1-0 wins. So, in a nutshell, to answer the OP''s question...get Norwich City to start winning football matches !

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I would like to see tangible evidence of him (and his coaching staff) being able to postively influence the outcome of football matches with in-game tactical and substitution changes as they arise.

He appears far too slow to react to situations and it would be nice, just once in a while to take a risk to win a match rather than the cautious approach to not lose one.

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Jose Mourinho, in his first spell at Chelsea (and possibly now), used to tell his players that "Winning the game isn''t life or death, but not losing is..." Very similar to what shankly said at Anfield.

make of it what you will.

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I have tried to sit on the fence on the CH dispute, but I have to say that in a game or two his position could well become irretrievable if results continue as they are.

 

Complaints first arose from the poor start in 2012-13, were briefly muted during the very good run, but since then have hardly missed a week, even when his various signings emerged. I suspect that the anger felt by some is almost visceral, and he will never persuade a large number of supporters that he is the man to manage NCFC.

 

It is well known that ours are among the best supporters in England - a higher proportion of local population than  that of almost every other team. They are well behaved, humorous and generous towards other clubs. Above all, many spend much hard-earned cash on season tickets and on travelling to far corners of England. They are, however, very quick to turn their support into strong and personal criticism. and they expect the team to achieve above and beyond what our resources suggest is possible. How long the negative feelings will persist if the manager turns things round, I have no idea, but if he does succeed I can see criticism waiting to pounce on any future set-back or blemish.

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Well Theo, I''m afraid I''m with City 2nd on this. You are cherry picking facts to an incredible degree. It shows how fickle fans are......

......which brings me nicely onto my main point. I''ve no doubt that if by some amazing quirk of fate we do stop giving away stupid goals, RvW and Hooper begin banging them in for fun, we win a large percentage of our games and are challenging for a top half place, then all CH''s past misdemeanours will be forgotten by all but the hard core of Hughton Outers . I really do not agree that he has gone past the point of no return. But that point is VERY fast approaching.

I am equally sure that people will be prepared to overlook things if we see some displays that are overtly negative, as long as they result in 1-0 wins. So, in a nutshell, to answer the OP''s question...get Norwich City to start winning football matches ![/quote]"You are cherry picking facts to an incredible degree. It shows how fickle fans are" I know I am. That''s exactly my point! Anyone can select ''facts'' to suit their opinion. I''m not behind Hughton 100%. Results at the end of the day need to improve. On recent evidence, I think they might, and I was able to select some ''facts'' to back it up. City 2nd has done this as well. City 2nd selected an "11 goals in 4 games" to back his up point. However in the 2 games previous to that, we only conceded 1 goal, making "12 goals in last 6", which doesn''t suit his point.This is my exact point. Facts by themselves mean nothing. I''m so tired of the "6 game in 30" being blurted out like it says it all, when in reality, we''ve started to see the performances improve on the pitch. To change now would be to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I am equally sure that people will be prepared to overlook things

if we see some displays that are overtly negative, as long as they

result in 1-0 wins.
This point however annoys me. At the start of this season, specificly after the Southampton game (i.e. a not so positive 1-0 win), all the Hughton outers were stating "It''s not about the result, it''s about the performance". Now performances have improved, we''re saying its all about the result?It''s for this reason, I think there is a selection of fans that Hughton will never please. There will always be an excuse, and there will always be cherry-picked facts to back up the excuse.Personally, as performances have improved everywhere but the scoreboard, I think he deserves a little more time to fix that as well.

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Nothing like what Shankley said!

 

Here is his quote:

 

''Some people believe football is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.''

 

Sorry

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To prove the point that some fans will never be won over, after every home game this season and one in particular (villa I think), 2 ''gentlemen'' stood berating Turner as he came off telling him to f*** off and that he''s a disgrace despite not really putting a foot wrong all season and certainly not being a poor performer in the squad.

Unbelievable how fickle some fans can be and they don''t understand the negative effect their actions can create (Turner certainly heard them).

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The football IS getting better and I think if we get a few results together, people will have more faith in Chris. By nature, ''fickle'' fans should flock back.One thing he really has going for him is that he''s a nice guy and he appears to be able to spot a player. Look at someone like Roeder, Grant or Gunn and they lost the fans quickly and completely.It''s mostly frustrating with Chris because he''s not too far away from being a very good and popular manager for us; he just has to lose his negativity.

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