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Jim Turner

worthy doubters

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Hi long time reader first time poster.

Having browsed these boards for a while can I take the opportunity to thank posters such as two sheds and 1st wizard for showing how any strong criticisms of worthy during this season are crazy.

Oh and the recent post basically claiming we should be grateful for their prestigious acknowledgement of Worthington''s achievement was a joke.

He''s been our best manager for years upon years and the time we hevily struggled shock horror was when we had many key men out injured.

Here''s to the team on Sunday and lets hope we can stay in this league, but if we go down the squad will remain in tact and strong enough to bounce back, hopefully though they''ll be no need as long as we win.

Basically then, I''m desperate for a win but it aint the end of the world if we lose or draw and go down.

On the ball city

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Sorry newbie, I think you''re wrong. I was a massive Worthy fan from the beginning of his reign (1st Wiz will testify) but he''s (mis)managed his way out of my good books this season.

He himself has demonstrated his ill-advised team selections perfectly by FINALLY selecting players for their ability and not work rate or how much he likes them. Hence we now have the Danish captain playing at right back and someone who can pass playing in Centre midfield.

Even if we do stay up, I would like them to bring in someone else next to (or above) Worthington - my preferred choice would be Clive Woodward.

This way there would be no stone left unturned regarding scouting (no more JONSONs), training (no more long distance runners with the touch of a Rhino) and team selections (no more playing Arsenal away with three strikers).

Nigel has done a good job for us, no doubting that. But he has come up well short in the premier league and only Dean Ashton has saved us from complete embarrassment.

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This is one of the most exciting weekends of football in the 30 something years I have followed Norwich - brought to us courtesy of Worthy.

Let''s appreciate what he has done and get behind him

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God, people keep going on and on about Worthy''s team selection when the ten/twelve game period when we we''re having problems was because of all the injuries and he had no choice but to field the team he did do.

People keep forgetting that Helveg, Safri, Bentley, Francis etc were all injured for a large chunk of the season.

Worthy has worked miracles for NCFC on and off the pitch. He is the best manager this club has had or will likely to have in a very very long time

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Listen Beds, while I will enjoy this weekend, I don''t understand Worthy for his dropping of Charlton (yes he got injured but was our best player before that), the non-selection of Helveg (he wasn''t injured ALL season), the same applies to Safri, the ONE MILLION POUND purchase of Jonson, the dropping of Doherty, the selection of Fleming as captain, the idea that you can buy anyone and stick them on the wing and they are a winger, the non-ability to pick a team based on the opposition (every other manager does, why not Nige?), the treatment of Paul McVeigh who above anyone other than Gary Holt has done more for this team''s position than any other player (yes, I like Paul!), the dreadful passing and movement ability of our players in comparison to every team we''ve played apart from Man Utd oddly enough (including West Ham) and the defensive frailties that have not been addressed for about 7 months.

Other than that I think he''s great. He''s got dignity and balls, and he''s given the club a spine. Now we need some creativity and some nous.

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Good to have you back mook - seems a while since we last heard from you.

I do feel that the injuries is a total red herring.  Helveg was dropped for most of the first half of the season when not injured and the ludicrously played in central midfield before eddys red card showed just how good he is at rightback against liverpool.  The very next game Eddy is back despite Thomas'' superb display of, shock horror, defending;  at right back of all places.   Helveg gets stuck back in central midfield and promptly gets crocked. 

Safri was repeatedly overlooked for another long distance runner Gary Holt, then Mullers before he picked up an injury.  

Both these players spend a full half season on the sidelines uninjured before the debacle in APRIL of the Highbury game.  Yes for 3 months (and how many league games did we play in that period  - just    ) this pair were injured butthat was a small proportion of the league campaign.  On top of that is the overlooking of Shacks and the similarly bizzare exclusion from defence of the best defender in that first half charlton following the blackburn game.   And there is the dropping of Drury when it was plain he was not playing poorly but just over-exposed by the tactic of playing Hux at left midfield and wondering then criticising him for not defending!

None of these are ''bad luck'' but poor management unrelated from the injuries which were badly timed but nothing else.  

I have been and will continue to criticise Worthy, including this week if warranted, when he gets things so abysmally wrong.   Most of the people currently stating where would we have been without worthy (and the answer is mid table championship at best - I do appreciate what he has done but ALL managers have a shelf life) were the self same posters laying to worthy before the manure game with a large groundswell in the worthy out ranks.  While I criticise his failings I am not convinced we can get or afford any better manager at this moment in time so am hppy for him to stay at the helm whichever league we end up in next season.

If I can plagiarise (and get it a bit more accurate ) DDiM Nigel Worthington The right man for the job at the moment, but must do better and soon. 

And to all those that blindly feel Worthy has done a good job all season I ask who is the bigger fool, the fool or the fool who follows the fool?

OTBC

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[quote]Sorry newbie, I think you''re wrong. I was a massive Worthy fan from the beginning of his reign (1st Wiz will testify) but he''s (mis)managed his way out of my good books this season. He himself has de...[/quote]

I assume you''re being ironic when you mention Clive Woodward. Unless, of course, you believe a rugby coach who cannot claim to being anymore in the know than anybody else on this board about football is the man to lead this club forward?!!?

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[quote]Listen Beds, while I will enjoy this weekend, I don''t understand Worthy for his dropping of Charlton (yes he got injured but was our best player before that), the non-selection of Helveg (he wasn''t in...[/quote]

Helveg - Do you not remember just how bad Helveg was at the start of the season? The man couldn''t hit a cow''s backside with a banjo and was initially far, far too slow for Premeirship football. Thankfully he''s now settled in but only because Worthy has forced him to fight for a place in the team, not expect it because of his credentials.

Safri - Started well but had a four or five game period where he too couldn''t get a pass on target. Then he had that non-eating religious thing which effected his fitness.

Jonson - Who could predict Jonson would turn out to be as poor as he has been? He''s a ''confidence'' player and I still think that after a few goals and a decent run in the side, he''ll come good.

Doherty - Was signed in case we struggled for height at the back. He''s no Malkay and certainly wouldn''t be in my XII and since Shackell has emerged he won''t stand a chance of getting back into the squad.

McVeigh - Is nowhere near Premiership standard. Just who would you drop in the current squad for him??

The only one I agree with you on is Charlton who I do think should have replaced Fleming in the team long ago. However, Fleming had a good solid game against Birmingham on Saturday and he is the team captain. How do we know what the man brings to the club off the field (i.e morale, leadership, keeping the players gelled together, etc.)

 

Worthy has got us to the Prem. He has given the Premiership more entertainment than any other club this season and on Sunday he will keep us in the Prem.

What more do you want?!?!

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Clive Woodward?

I don''t know what you''re on but I''ll have to ask my dealer GP if he has any!

He''s not even a football manager, he''s a very good organiser and optimiser (from what I''ve heard) but he can''t coach or select football teams!

This is really getting out of hand, I agree that worthy''s selections have been a bit odd, but it has taken time for players to settle down and recover from injuries.  Even when a player is fit you can''t just chuck him straight back into the team (as a general rule).

Chunky

OTBC!

 

P.S Woodward''s going to saint marys anyway!

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Helveg and Safri were not that poor at the start of the season and neither were given a chance to bed in to a new side and different league. Both were better footballers in the few minutes they had on the pitch than the players who werein their place but Worthy never returned to them in anger until the manure game - far too many months too late.

I agree Jonson is a confidence player and that there is more to come - Worthy is the person to provide or withdraw that confidence and to me it is patently obvious that the message worthy has given Jonson is do your defensive duties above all else - which he does do well; its just we all want to see him as an attacking force and the blame for that, like Hendo, lies with no other person than the manager if the player is following instructions.  Since Worthy publically asked Jonson to show his flair side he has not had 1 minute on the pitch, so where is he supposed to show it?  Now Sven is the best midfield option to shore things up - give me strength...

The doc - I am no fan of his and have always questioned his purchase but to be fair to the guy when he wasnt injuring his own players he too was a class above Flem yet which one continues to appear week in week out and ludicrously is approaching 100 consecutive complete games for city? 

McVeigh - as much as my family loves him he s too inconsistenet to deserve a start but to freeze him from the side when we have no fit midfielders to put on the bench was ludicrous.

The treatment of charlie by worthy is appalling; no other word for it, and allegedly all over him suggesting the defence needs to tighten up??!!??!! 

Face it - worthy has a lot of flaws that AT PREM level need addressing as they have been and will continue to be detrimental to the team.  To deny that these faults exist suggests you should be working as an archant football journalist (apologies to the web team) and need to look harder at how this season has panned out.

If he addresses these issues and learns from these last 8 months then he is the right man for the job - otherwise it is time for a new leader.

OTBC

 

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Yes, we''ve all criticised Worthy from time to time this season but he''s having to learn how to manage at this level with a very limited squad of players. As well as dealing with real footballers, not just names on a sheet of paper, he will be getting advice and comments from others in his managerial team that he has to balance against his own judgements. What does seem clear is that he has learned from past mistakes (although the jury''s still out on Fleming), i.e. that we''re going in the right direction and he hasn''t lost the plot yet. He also was bold enough to sign Dean Ashton which hopefully come Sunday will prove the best managerial decision of the season.

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Nobody is denying that there is room for worthy to improve, but to say he''s treating charlie in a ridiculous manner is stupid when nobody knows the entire story.

If Charlie was upset or was being treated badly, I think we''d know about it by now.

Chunky

OTBC

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[quote]Helveg - Do you not remember just how bad Helveg was at the start of the season? The man couldn''t hit a cow''s backside with a banjo and was initially far, far too slow for Premeirship football. Tha...[/quote]

Pretty much spot on beds! Ithink Safri could have been given a better run early on. Zippers do you remember how bad Helveg was against Everton? He went off at half time and we played 30mins of the best football ive seen at carrow road for 10yrs in the 2nd half.

Eddie has rarely put a foot wrong, wasn''t he an early contender for player of the season? most of us really felt for him when he was dropped. Helveg just offers a bit more quality now he has settled in.

How can you drop Flemming? Who knows what effect that would have on the dressing room. we currently rely a great deal on team spirit Flemmers is crucial to that.

Worthy is still young and learning as the whole club are. We can''t ask anymore from someone than bags of enthusiasm, no little talent and massive potential. THat pretty much sums up our wonderful club.

COME ON YOU YELLOWS

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I must say I sit firmly in the middle of this argument.  I do not want Worthy to leave but he has made big mistakes.

My biggest concern is the amount of players who get disregarded because of "personal" reasons.  Bentley being left out earlier in the season is a prime example, not only was Bentley punished, the team were also because we were deprived of one of our most creative players (I know he was not playing great at the time but he has ability).  There is a list as long as my arm of players he has fell out with, to the detriment of the club.

Anyhow, I can''t help thinking that this is perpetual argument that just goes round and round.

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As a frequent lurker but first time poster I have now been urged into responding to some views especially ZippersLeftFoot.  Your  point of view over team selection is your own business and is why such message boards exist but some of the points you make are made without any basis on actual fact. 

Who are we to comment on whether Shackell was ready to play before he did?  Do you work as a coach up at colney or know the players personally?  Who are we to say what Fleming does for the team off the pitch in the role of captain?  He was picked for a reason and I am quite happy to leave that to the people who get paid good money to make these decisions.  It seems to me that Safri picked up quite a few niggling injuries this season, did you see the sports scientist''s report about his fitness? Forgive me if I am wrong and you do have all this inside knowledge.

I''m quite happy living with the fact that I do not know the exact in''s and out''s of the football club and that Worthy and the rest of the coaches do.

Here''s to staying up on Sunday which ever team Worthy picks!

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No no no no no.Not Clive Woodward INSTEAD of Worthington. Clive Woodward WITH Worthington.We all know that Delia would never get rid of Worthy, but there are issues that could be cured by someone else working with him. I believe that our scouting is poor, our training is poor and our tactics are not good. Therefore Sir Clive would sort that out pronto.Sorry Beds, don''t agree with you. Helveg got turned a couple of times by Ryan Giggs (who hasn''t) but wasn''t that bad. Edworthy has been run ragged by every left winger in the league in the ensuing 25 games. Safri didn''t get his chance. Doherty was better than Fleming. Doc and shackell could have been good, Doc and Charlton would have worked, ANYONE but Fleming. And there''s much more.Anyway, too excited now to think about ranting too much. But put it this way - I have not been impressed by the way NW has worked this season re team selection, transfers, and tactics. Sorry.

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