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nutty nigel

If you ignore the 10 game unbeaten run and..

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]So what you''re saying is Warren, it''s taken Hughton 47 games to win the same amount of games as Lambert won in 38. 38 games where he played the likes of Tierney, Ward, Whitbread, Ayala, Fox, Crofts, Surman, Lappin, Jackson, Morison and Wilbraham week in week out. I think only Ruddy, Cafu, the Bennett''s, Wes and Pilkington are still playing at this level, and some of those aren''t suing regularly. Hughton has spent in excess of £40m on new players since Lambert''s departure and as your stat proves, results have gone backwards. I personally don''t think we''d be sat in the bottom 3 right now if he was still here, do you? I''m not trying to have a go at Hughton here, but claims that his achievements are on a par with, or are better than Lambert''s are just plain daft.[/quote]

 

Where exactly have I claimed that "achievements" are on a par? What I''ve pointed out is that there isn''t much between the two Premier League records with us, yet if you listened to the "fan on the board" you''d think that they were streets apart. Both have won 12 Premier League games, Hughton has been in charge for slightly longer, that''s because Lambert upped sticks for greener grass - and of course it didn''t take Hughton 47 games to win 12 but then you already know that. Paul Lambert achieved great things with us but there really isn''t much between him and Hughton in their Premier League records with us, it''s slightly in favour of Lambert as the figures I''ve provided clearly show.

 

Would we be in the bottom 3 if Lambert was still here? I don''t know.

 

Would we even be in the Premier League if Lambert was still here? I don''t know that either.

 

As for comparing the squads, well, yes, we have improved our squad, but so has everybody else, you have to improve to stand still, if other sides improve their squads at a quicker rate, you could even improve but be seen to "go backwards".

 

 

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]So what you''re saying is Warren, it''s taken Hughton 47 games to win the same amount of games as Lambert won in 38. 38 games where he played the likes of Tierney, Ward, Whitbread, Ayala, Fox, Crofts, Surman, Lappin, Jackson, Morison and Wilbraham week in week out. I think only Ruddy, Cafu, the Bennett''s, Wes and Pilkington are still playing at this level, and some of those aren''t suing regularly. Hughton has spent in excess of £40m on new players since Lambert''s departure and as your stat proves, results have gone backwards. I personally don''t think we''d be sat in the bottom 3 right now if he was still here, do you? I''m not trying to have a go at Hughton here, but claims that his achievements are on a par with, or are better than Lambert''s are just plain daft.[/quote]

 

To be honest this whole thread if daft and set for this type of fractious debating.

 

Really how can anyone compare the two, different times and different players.

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Indy,

 

IMO not the same old player interviews, not once did he use the words, "It''s a tough place to go", "They are a quality team", "Getting a result is going to be difficult" and so on.  At least he spoke about us and what we will be doing, positive mindset, etc.

 

At least had the balls to stand up and be counted and not hide behind the ''tough place to go'' crap.  Yes it might bite him in the bum but I would far rather hear some positivity from our players which may just tilt things a little more in our favour, than excuses before they have even kicked a ball.

 

And it''s that sort of positivity that needs to run throughout the team and management for every game we play.

 

And yet again I will quote Henry Ford because what you say has a massive impact on what you achieve, "Whether you believe you can do a thing or whether you believe you cannot do a thing, you will be right."  So on that basis I would rather hear our players talking positively than negatively.

 

Out of interest, if you were the player being interviewed what would you say, because despite your wish for him to keep quiet, that is not an option, they are required by the club to speak, so just what would you want him to say?

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

...the games where the opposition were on the beach together with the games where the players revolted against Hughton we have won no games at all since Lambert left. None whatsoever. Zippetyziltch.

 

 

[/quote]

But why would you ignore the 10 game unbeaten run? What does that achieve? That''s like saying if we ignore all the away defeats last season, we would''ve finished in 7th or something, Utterly pointless f*cking crap, posted with an agenda.

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[quote user="Ray"]

Indy,

 

IMO not the same old player interviews, not once did he use the words, "It''s a tough place to go", "They are a quality team", "Getting a result is going to be difficult" and so on.  At least he spoke about us and what we will be doing, positive mindset, etc.

 

At least had the balls to stand up and be counted and not hide behind the ''tough place to go'' crap.  Yes it might bite him in the bum but I would far rather hear some positivity from our players which may just tilt things a little more in our favour, than excuses before they have even kicked a ball.

 

And it''s that sort of positivity that needs to run throughout the team and management for every game we play.

 

And yet again I will quote Henry Ford because what you say has a massive impact on what you achieve, "Whether you believe you can do a thing or whether you believe you cannot do a thing, you will be right."  So on that basis I would rather hear our players talking positively than negatively.

 

Out of interest, if you were the player being interviewed what would you say, because despite your wish for him to keep quiet, that is not an option, they are required by the club to speak, so just what would you want him to say?

[/quote]

No that''s a fair criticism of me and I am maybe too cynical on Martin, I can''t say I would say too much different, other than put the emphasis on keep improving.

 

But I still want to see us concentrate for 90 minutes and now he has indicated the issues I hope that they follow up with a good performance.

 

 

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Most of the fans who fail to acknowledge Hughton''s massive failings always bring up the unbeaten run to justify the remainder of the games, which have frankly been mainly dirge.

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[quote user="JF"]That 10 game run was a year ago, shows how poor he and we

have been since when people are still clinging on to it in his defence. As for

the beach comment, well we will find out tomorrow how we fare against them with

a manager in place and something to play for wont we?[/quote]
 
Now this is brilliant! Even better than having discounting the points won in games that don''t suit an agenda! I''m loving this one JF[Y]
 
Basically we can validate last seasons results by how we get on this season in the corresponding fixture. However let me allay any concerns may have about a retrospective points deduction should we not beat Citeh again. We are already 5 points in credit on last season''s league table after beating Southampton and winning at Stoke!
 
 

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Sorry but there is no agenda when it comes to looking at what has gone on over the last year or so, only the desire to see the club retain its status in the Premiership.

For the avoidance of doubt I will say it again, the two games at the end of last season against teams who we very much ''On the beach'' can, if you are being objective, add a veneer of acceptability to a very disappointing set of results.

Of course they still had to be won, yes we played some good stuff but answer me this, had anything been riding on the results for either of our two opponents do you really think we would have picked up six points in the way that we did?

If being as objective as possible means you have an agenda then so be it, it''ll be the same agenda that will have me on the train to Manchester tomorrow.

The numbers in the original thread do not lie, so answer me this, free from any agenda of course, how much worse will things have to get before it is time for the Board to act?

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Hi Indy,

 

It takes a certain type of person to say what you have just said, so thanks for that.

 

And I absolutely agree, 90 mins plus 10 more to be on the safe side total concentration.  Having said that the goals we have conceded in the last ten minutes recently have included some crackers that most, if not all teams, would probably conceded and at least we were having a go.  May as well lose by three or four occasionally by having a go, which could result in snatching a draw, than losing 1 - 0 because if are worried about goal difference at this stage of the season, then we are in trouble and negative thinking pervades the club, which will lead to negative behaviour, which will become a habit, which will give you negative results.  So c''mon Russ and the rest of the squad (and management) more of the same please.  Does it guarantee success, unequivocally NO, does it make success more likely, unequivocally YES.

 

 

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If we are discounting various things - if we didn''t score any goals last season nor concede any, we''d finished on 38 points. We''d have stayed up. Let''s play with 10 defenders when our points tally equals our played amount of games.

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I always was led to believe the league table is a fair indication of the season''s performance. Warts and all. I could scratch about and look for points I felt we were unlucky to drop just as easily as you can scratch about looking for points you feel we were lucky to win. During the season other teams were both unlucky and lucky too. It wasn''t just us who played sides at the end of the season.

 

What was there to play for? I think about £800,00 per position.

 

As for the board.. I suggest you ask them. Interestingly nobody did when the opportunity was there a couple of weeks ago. I wonder if anybody did at the closed shop the other night?

 

 

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Sorry Nutty, but that is not strictly true.

 

Like for like (Sustituting Wigan for Cardiff, Hull for Reading and Palace for QPR - based on finishing positions, 1,2,3 to 18,19,20), we are in fact 2 pts down on last season and 7 goals worse off.

 

Don''t mean to put a dampener on things.

 

Sorry [:$][:(]

 

Snake

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Thanks Ray,

I tend to agree with you and I for one have no criticism of Hughton regarding recent games, yep conceding 11 goals in 3 games is not good at any point, but some of the goals have indeed been crackers!

 

On a side note, I would not criticise Hughton for making the chages he has against Chelsea and Anrsenal, we did go onto to lose heavily but at least we chased the result both times, just the quality of the oposition can''t be questioned.

 

Tuesday was nothing game to most but should have been a must perfomr game to some of our fringe players and from what I saw they did not really turn up. So fair enough we can give away a cup match for results in the league.

 

Like I say if anyone had a magic formula for success at our financial level they would make a fortune.

 

I am a fence sitter for the time being as a strong arguement can be made pro Hughton and anti hughton, but the players do need to stand up now and fight for the manager.

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LOL.. I''m afraid we are unable to validate the points we gained from relegated sides because we don''t play them.

 

But then again in this surreal world of falsified league tables I guess we could do that but it would be up to the falsifier who is substituted for who. So I''m going 18,19,20 with 3,2,1.

 

 

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Oh I see, it''s ''Keep the Faith'' time again.

Answer the question, how much worse do YOU think things will have to get before YOU feel it is time for the Board to act?

The headline statistic in te original post will shortly dip below 20% in all probability, that''s not really very good is it.

Not for one minute do I want us to lose, I''m giving up a day and quite a bit of loot to go to Manchester for the second time in a week. But its with a sense of not just foreboding that you get when visiting the real Premiership heavyweights but also complete resignation that we will simply roll over again.

Tthrough the season you will pick up points that could be considered fortunate, if Fer''s goal had have stood it''d be two more points to the tally, such is footballing life. But there again we''ve also stopped being lucky in a way that we had become accustomed.

In truth of course I will be as happy as anyone if we can get a point tomorrow but having now witnessed each and every one of Hoots games as manager but the numbers in the original post do no lie, it simply cannot go on much longer

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It does get complicated Morty. Much simpler to go by the results and league table[;)]

 

 

[/quote]Lol, indeed!

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[quote user="Bury Green"]Oh I see, it''s ''Keep the Faith'' time again.

Answer the question, how much worse do YOU think things will have to get before YOU feel it is time for the Board to act?

The headline statistic in te original post will shortly dip below 20% in all probability, that''s not really very good is it.

Not for one minute do I want us to lose, I''m giving up a day and quite a bit of loot to go to Manchester for the second time in a week. But its with a sense of not just foreboding that you get when visiting the real Premiership heavyweights but also complete resignation that we will simply roll over again.

Tthrough the season you will pick up points that could be considered fortunate, if Fer''s goal had have stood it''d be two more points to the tally, such is footballing life. But there again we''ve also stopped being lucky in a way that we had become accustomed.

In truth of course I will be as happy as anyone if we can get a point tomorrow but having now witnessed each and every one of Hoots games as manager but the numbers in the original post do no lie, it simply cannot go on much longer[/quote]If you read any of the 75 other threads where people were asked pretty much everyone, even those of us who are fans of Hughton, has come to the conclusion that he has two home games left.Which I think seems fair.I still don''t think sacking him is the answer, but I do agree his position will become untenable if he doesn''t win the next two home games.

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[quote user="snake-eyes"]We''re just complicated guys in a complicated world Morty! [:S][/quote]I actually try and give it as little thought as I can, I don''t know why I punish myself reading the same old threads, day after day, lol.

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Hi Indy,

 

Ditto.

 

Off to see the U21s tonight versus Man City at CR, we have two of the lads live with us, hoping for a good game, Mr Gunn Junior (Angus) is out injured with a broken finger, so we''re already on a winner, plus Man City are bottom of the league and we are 7th, now there''s a turn up!

 

Although I believe both of the Murphs have travelled to Manchester, so we will miss them no doubt but we still have some very good players/prospects for the future.

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Actually Einstein I was replying to this thread and not the other seventy five on the subject.

There was me wondering why I give this forum a miss for long periods of time, then of course reality strikes...........

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[quote user="Bury Green"]Actually Einstein I was replying to this thread and not the other seventy five on the subject.

There was me wondering why I give this forum a miss for long periods of time, then of course reality strikes...........[/quote]Any need to be sarky?Jeez.

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Bury Green wrote the following post at 01/11/2013 3:28 PM:

Actually Einstein I was replying to this thread and not the other seventy five on the subject.

There was me wondering why I give this forum a miss for long periods of time, then of course reality strikes...........

It doesn''t take long; good posts by the way!

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