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Juggy

PLEASE Lay Off The PLAYERS

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Hughton-outers seem to have become the majority, but whether you are in or out or inbetween, or keep jumping from camp to camp, please please back off the players.

We have a serious confidence crisis throughout the squad, it can be impossible to come back from that.

If Hughton goes, and I think it will be soon, the new manager has to come in and whether we survive or not will depend completely on whether he can get the players - who are good enough for this league - believing in themselves.

In really does not help in the slightest to have threads like "Hope Hoolahan never plays another game for us", or "Hope we never see Bradley Johnson again".

This is suicidal and massively counter-productive. Alright so Johnson may be a very limited player, Hoolahan may or may not have enough left in the tank. But the fact is that any new manager will get a very limited amount to spend in January (no team threatened with relegation embarks on a huge investment in the team, instead they sit down with a calculator working out how they will survive in the Championship).

These are the very players that we need to start playing for their manager (whoever it is), for the shirt, for the fans, to win us the required number of points to save ourselves from a potentially catastrophic relegation.

It is not in the slightest bit helpful to start singling out which player has played the worst out of eleven players who have all played terribly.

The players are suffering from a lack of confidence, and from a lack of match sharpness, and neither is their fault.

Any new manager will need to use Johnson, need to use Hoolahan, need to use Garrido, whether you like it or not. And all three can do a job in this division if that new manager can get them playing to the best of their ability in the right system, whenever it is that they may be required to lace up the boots.

We have 22 senior players (not 25), already any new manager is going to be suffering from a very small squad (yes, we have a very small squad, because most other teams have more than 1 under 21 player who is ready for first team football).

Any new manager is going to be severely limited in what he can and can''t do, he is going to have to be very creative if he is going to devise new systems and implement some sort of tactical diversity (this is what we want isn''t it?) and if we get a manager willing to use his squad to the max, and offer up new ideas and try new systems, then all of the players in that 22 may be required, and we need

Lambert always said that the players who are not playing are just as important as those who are. That is very true, and if Hughton had the same philosophy rather than discarding people like Becchio, Fox and Hoolahan then maybe we would be stronger for it.

If you want a new manager then fair enough, but please don''t think you are going to get a new squad to go with it because if we are in or very close to the relegation zone then we would be lucky to get anything other than a couple of loans and maybe a bargain basement buy or two.

It may be realistic to expect a managerial change, but it is almost certainly not realistic to expect the club to go out and buy £5m players in January considering our current circumstances.

We need to get behind and support all of the players, if we don''t then that''s us down, that''s the squad torn apart upon relegation (Ruddy and Pilkington first to leave no doubt), and I think we would find it extremely hard to come back up if we didn''t do it at first attempt.

Remember that it is a squad game, they are all as important as each other, and players that the current manager has deemed inferior may not necessarily be the players that any new manager would consider inferior. People like Hoolahan, Garrido, Johnson and Becchio may have an important role to play over the coming months. Particularly Hoolahan, who was ALWAYS a confidence player.

I''m sure all fans whether Hughton-inners or Hughton-outers, or Hughton-inbetweeners, can agree on this very simple point?

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During the next game, of course the players will get the support they need - if they put some effort in.

Today they were all completely pedestrian. Nobody put a foot in, nobody kicked any Man City players on the halfway line, nobody was in their faces. Elmander was the only person I heard trying to organise at all (he shouted and told Murphy and Pilks I believe to stay and mark the full backs so the keeper couldn''t pass it out short), and when they were 7-0 down and Man City were essentially taking the proverbial, there was nobody who was getting wound up. If I was losing 7-0, my professional pride would be hurt and I''d at least try to fly in with a few challenges and get in the opponents'' faces. Today every single on of the players seemed more than happy to let Man City laugh at them. For that, they all deserve a slating, no point dressing it up nicely. The result - and even the scoreline - didn''t really matter to me today, but I expected the players to try and play with pride. Not one of them did.

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It was the players who had no bottle & embarrassed the club today

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[quote user="Le Juge"]

We have 22 senior players (not 25), already any new manager is going to be suffering from a very small squad (yes, we have a very small squad, because most other teams have more than 1 under 21 player who is ready for first team football).

[/quote]

what about josh murphy? he''s ready for first team football no?

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This will not be the first, nor the last where the players genuinely believe the Manager and coaches have lost it.

We have a tremendous squad waiting to be coached and most importantly man-managed properly.

Hopefully we get a new manager damn quick, then watch how the players gain a half yard of space and belief.

Amazing how the Hughton defenders are now putting up the most outrageous excuses to defend a manager who is not up to the job

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Whether you are annoyed by the players today or not, and whether they are intentionally playing rubbish or have no confidence, surely nobody can agree with "I hope Hoolahan never plays for us again".

Be careful what you wish for, because Hoolahan could have a lot to offer any new manager, and would certainly have a lot to offer if it came down to us needing to try and get back in this division next season. Same with Bradley Johnson.

There are players who would remain loyal, and there are players who wouldn''t.

In Johnson and Hoolahan you have two players who would probably remain loyal.

Think about that.

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Has anyone mentioned Hoolahan? It''s not about making scapegoats out of players, it''s about saying when their performances simply aren''t good enough. Ability wise, I can be forgiving when they come off second best against the likes of Man City, but not when they put in a performance like today which was completely lacking in any heart.

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I absolutely agree with you that people should be careful what they wish for, but I can understand peoples'' frustration in the heat of the moment.That said, Hughton will deservedly take the flack for this week, but today a lot of the players were absolutely pathetic. They get paid a huge amount of money, so for some of them to not even put the effort in, track back, get stuck in is pretty much unforgivable. If I was that incompetent in my job, I would certainly expect to get pulled up, but for some reason Hughton seems to be taking most of the blame today and the players getting off lightly.Incidentally, I think Johnson was one of a few players who put a shift in today. Lack of quality I can accept, but some had such a lack of effort, commitment and pride - that they should get all the criticism they deserve. If they''re not able to take that criticism and produce a reaction next week against West Ham, then they probably shouldn''t be playing professional football at this level. They will have my 100% support next weekend, but certain players need to take a long hard look at themselves today for effectively throwing the manager under the bus. Even if my grandmother was managing Norwich, I would expect them to put in a more committed performance than they gave today, being top level professional footballers.

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"Has anyone mentioned Hoolahan?"

http://services.pinkun.com/forums/pinkun/cs/forums/3006850/ShowPost.aspx

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But why bring it up 5 posts into a thread where nobody has mentioned him?

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The entire basis of the thread is peoples criticism of the players recently, particularly Johnson and Hoolahan.

I get what you are saying now, you are talking specifically about today''s game.

Well I am talking not only about the reaction to today''s game, but also the reaction to the Man Utd game.

Two shocking performances, but I don''t want people to start scapegoating individuals for two terrible team performances. That''s my point.

Whether it is Johnson from today, or Hoolahan from Tuesday, it is the same thing.

Redmond was the bright light on Tuesday, Murphy was the bright light today. All other outfield players were terrible individually and as a team in both games and I think that picking out individuals is counter productive, whether that is Hoolahan or Johnson.

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You put a thread about laying off the players, a few of us replied to that (nobody mentioning Hoolahan at all), and then you tell us to be careful what we wish for because Hoolahan might still have something to offer us. What has Hoolahan got to do with what anyone else in the thread has said? If you wanted to make a point about people criticising Hoolahan, why not do it in the thread you linked to?

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[quote user="Le Juge"]The entire basis of the thread is peoples criticism of the players recently, particularly Johnson and Hoolahan.

I get what you are saying now, you are talking specifically about today''s game.

Well I am talking not only about the reaction to today''s game, but also the reaction to the Man Utd game.

Two shocking performances, but I don''t want people to start scapegoating individuals for two terrible team performances. That''s my point.

Whether it is Johnson from today, or Hoolahan from Tuesday, it is the same thing.

Redmond was the bright light on Tuesday, Murphy was the bright light today. All other outfield players were terrible individually and as a team in both games and I think that picking out individuals is counter productive, whether that is Hoolahan or Johnson.[/quote]

Fine, but I''m not sure anyone is scapegoating today. I think the whole side is getting slated, because they simply didn''t turn up. That''s a different thing. And to be quite honest, with the way some of the players were playing today, I think a rocket up their backside and some stinging criticism from the stands might be for their own good.

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Fine, but the exact same applies to Johnson.

It applies to any player.

Two games, two scapegoats, both players who have something to offer us.

I don''t really understand where you are coming from, unless it is an attempt to be a pedantic nickpick, but my point remains the same whether today or last Tuesday.

People are turning on the players, and I just think that is dangerous, because we can change the manager but we can''t change the squad to any great degree in January, and that is my underlying point.

So when you say: "If you wanted to make a point about people criticising Hoolahan, why not do it in the thread you linked to?"

Then well my answer to that is that I don''t want people singling out ANY of our players at current, for we are going to need to get behind them all to get ourselves out of an awful situation where they don''t believe they are good enough to win games.

They are good enough to win games, and as fans we don''t need to contribute towards a situation whereas they believe they are not.

The management team is to blame for our situation - in my personal opinion - not the players. They have lost faith, just as we have, we are all on the same side.

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