Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Sussexyellow

The Managerial fishing pools

Recommended Posts

If Hughton is to be replaced where is the best place to fish for a replacement?
You would think a good place to look would be a successful manager in a lower league notably the championship. However being successful there, as measured by winning promotion, is seriously bad for job security. Looking back over the last 4 years it looks like this:
2012/13: Palace (Holloway - axed), Cardiff (Malky - under pressure), Hull (Bruce - experienced premiership manager could well survive)
2011/12: Southampton (Adkins - axed), Reading (McDermott - axed), West Ham (Allardyce - experienced premiership manager)
2010/11: QPR (Warnock - axed). Swansea (Rodgers - survived), Norwich (Lambert - survived)
2009/10: Newcastle (Hughton - axed) WBA (Di Matteo - axed), Blackpool (Holloway - survived but relegated)
That''s quite an attrition rate. 
Rodgers is an interesting case as he learnt his trade in lower tier management at a top club which may be a better place to get the necessary skills. Other managers in this category would include Steve Clarke, Mark Hughes and I guess Hughton would fit here again.
Lambert is the exception having come up through the lower leagues and made good. Possibly getting his coaching badges in Germany helped.
From that it would appear that the gulf between managing in the championship and in the premiership is huge and probably widening all the time. The only recent appointment from a lower league that has lasted that I can think off is Moyes and that is a decade ago when the money was less, the gulf perhaps not so wide and he had a bit more time to learn the trade.
That suggests that domestically there are two pools in which we should be looking:
Experienced premiership managers: Available O''Neill, Pulis Others?
Lower tier manager''s at top clubs: Available Phelan, long shot Culverhouse, stick with Hughton. Probably are others of which I am unaware. Suggestions?
Beyond that, if we are going to change, then looking to Europe or further is the way to go. Anybody know if McNally has got any travel plans. Is anybody covering the airport?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I''d quite like a German manager. I also believe there are some fantastic players for mid table Bundesliga sides that would relish coming to the premiership. A real untapped resource.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I hear, Felix Magath is without a job.

(Wiki: "As a manager, Magath quickly gained respect and became notorious for his hard, grinding training methods, laying heavy emphasis on discipline, fitness and conditioning. Players gave him nicknames like "Saddam" (Saddam Hussein) or “Quälix”, a mash of his first name Felix and the German verb “quälen” (to torture).[6] He was once described by former Eintracht Frankfurt player Bachirou Salou as the "last dictator in Europe".")

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Can only speak from personal preference, if Chris Hughton is sacked I would like to see a high calibre replacement, whether that happens or not remains to be seen......[/quote]
I think it would have to be a high calibre replacement otherwise we could be in out of the frying pan into the fire syndrome.
That would suggest a non domestic appointment which then raises the question of have the powers that be done the necessary preparation to have such a plan B ready to go.
Now that knees have stopped jerking I think we are beginning to realise just how difficult a problem this is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Sons of Boadicea"]Can only speak from personal preference, if Chris Hughton is sacked I would like to see a high calibre replacement, whether that happens or not remains to be seen......[/quote]

 

SoB I''m tempted to say "unlike those of us who''d rather see a rubbish replacement...". (Mind you, there are some on here...).

 

But seriously, I agree it would need to be someone who can take us forward.  Not Martin O''Neill IMO, and please not Pulis.

 

So I agree with those who say we would have to look abroad, e.g. someone with a background like Laudrup.  I know nothing about foreign leagues beyond the very top clubs, so I have no idea who.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both of your "experienced premiership managers" were previously forced to drop into the Championship following sackings in the Premier League.

So it is really hard to find any sort of formula from that. Are you saying that we need to snap up a sacked Premier League manager before he heads to the

Championship? The only one that I can think of is Tony Pulis.

Or to grab a former Premier League manager who is currently in the Championship, before he gets promoted? The only one that I can think of is Steve McLaren.

What you don''t mention is that Newcastle replaced Hughton with a manager from the lower leagues, Alan Pardew, who was sacked and replaced by a manager who was sacked after promotion from the Championship.

Ian Holloway wasn''t "axed", he went to the Chairman and said that he wasn''t the right man for the job.

Interestingly though we can read that of the three clubs to sack managers whilst the club is in the relegation zone (Reading, QPR, West Brom), two went on to stay up (QPR and West Brom).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
But..... all those examples are newly promoted teams. And we aren''t a newly promoted team, this is our third year in the league.

QPR sacked their manager last season also, and that didn''t keep them up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spain or Germany is the way to go in my opinion. Far more tactical knowledge than any English manager. England''s just so far behind in terms of both youth and managerial coaching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
the current UK crop are woeful - has to be a young hungry spanish/german based manager for me...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve McLaren went over to Holland won the Eredivisie, and spent 5 years at Middesbrough winning a League Cup.

So if you want an English manager with a track record of doing well in the Premier League, winning a domestic trophy, and showing himself as talented in a so called tactically advanced league, then we do have an English manager in that league.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Le Juge"]Both of your "experienced premiership managers" were previously forced to drop into the Championship following sackings in the Premier League.

So it is really hard to find any sort of formula from that. Are you saying that we need to snap up a sacked Premier League manager before he heads to the

Championship? The only one that I can think of is Tony Pulis.

Or to grab a former Premier League manager who is currently in the Championship, before he gets promoted? The only one that I can think of is Steve McLaren.

What you don''t mention is that Newcastle replaced Hughton with a manager from the lower leagues, Alan Pardew, who was sacked and replaced by a manager who was sacked after promotion from the Championship.

Ian Holloway wasn''t "axed", he went to the Chairman and said that he wasn''t the right man for the job.

Interestingly though we can read that of the three clubs to sack managers whilst the club is in the relegation zone (Reading, QPR, West Brom), two went on to stay up (QPR and West Brom).[/quote]
No LJ I am not saying snap up any of those suggested. Just trying to demonstrate that pickings are slim domestically and that looking to the lower leagues for a manager with no or little premier league experience is very unlikely to improve our situation.
So if we are going to improve I really do feel we need to look outside the domestic scene.
I would agree that West Brom are the success story from managerial change. Hughes provided a short term fix at QPR but could not take the club forward, albeit it does look as though Harry is now doing a good rebuilding job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Le Juge"]But..... all those examples are newly promoted teams. And we aren''t a newly promoted team, this is our third year in the league.

QPR sacked their manager last season also, and that didn''t keep them up.[/quote]
LJ The examples are to show how many of the managers of the most successful teams in the championship for each of the years, those that have led their sides to promotion have found it difficult to make the step up to premier league management. I am basically arguing that if we want to improve the lower league manager pool is not one we should be fishing in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Le Juge"]Both of your "experienced premiership managers" were previously forced to drop into the Championship following sackings in the Premier League.

So it is really hard to find any sort of formula from that. Are you saying that we need to snap up a sacked Premier League manager before he heads to the

Championship? The only one that I can think of is Tony Pulis.

Or to grab a former Premier League manager who is currently in the Championship, before he gets promoted? The only one that I can think of is Steve McLaren.

What you don''t mention is that Newcastle replaced Hughton with a manager from the lower leagues, Alan Pardew, who was sacked and replaced by a manager who was sacked after promotion from the Championship.

Ian Holloway wasn''t "axed", he went to the Chairman and said that he wasn''t the right man for the job.

Interestingly though we can read that of the three clubs to sack managers whilst the club is in the relegation zone (Reading, QPR, West Brom), two went on to stay up (QPR and West Brom).[/quote]West Brom weren''t in the relegation zone when they sacked Di Matteo. They got rid of him before that happened. It''s probably already too late for Norwich

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey LJ, that Mc Claren name has been goin round n round in my head the last few days, i have a v old friend who is a cloggy and despite McC s ridiculous Dutch accent, he is v respected over there. we of course know him as the wally with the brolly . personally i think hes a smart manager , a possible, perhaps?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Le Juge"]Both of your "experienced premiership managers" were previously forced to drop into the Championship following sackings in the Premier League.

So it is really hard to find any sort of formula from that. Are you saying that we need to snap up a sacked Premier League manager before he heads to the

Championship? The only one that I can think of is Tony Pulis.

Or to grab a former Premier League manager who is currently in the Championship, before he gets promoted? The only one that I can think of is Steve McLaren.

What you don''t mention is that Newcastle replaced Hughton with a manager from the lower leagues, Alan Pardew, who was sacked and replaced by a manager who was sacked after promotion from the Championship.

Ian Holloway wasn''t "axed", he went to the Chairman and said that he wasn''t the right man for the job.

Interestingly though we can read that of the three clubs to sack managers whilst the club is in the relegation zone (Reading, QPR, West Brom), two went on to stay up (QPR and West Brom).[/quote]
Thinking about it Le Juge you rather make my point for me with the Holloway reference. 
In recent years you could argue that he is the best from the lower leagues. In his last three championship campaigns (over the last 4 years) his record has been promotion, play off final and promotion. You can not do much better than that. Yet he has still put his hand up and said I am not up to it when it comes to the premier league.
In another post you refer to Steve McLaren and rightly point out that he is an experienced premier league manager and has had success in an overseas league. However his record in recent years has not been that great. Despite his initial success at Twente, since his CV is littered with sackings and resignations.
The following quote from his wiki page sets all sorts of alarm bells ringing  - After some poor results, McClaren was criticised for Twente''s unattractive and defensive football The club continued to express their confidence in McClaren, but after the loss against Heerenveen, criticism grew, and protest and demonstration from both supporters and the media made McClaren''s position as head coach untenable. In the aftermath of that criticism McClaren resigned.
I do not think he is the man to take us forward.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...