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RvWs 4 year contract

Just an article I've thrown together....

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Anyone viewing the Lambert years as some kind of template for the future has obviously not been a supporter of NCFC for very long . You don''t have to be prescient to know that clubs of our stature have their ups and downs over time and that NCFC have been on a very enjoyable 4-5 year upswing. Now things have leveled out and the present path is very much pointed downhill.For those unfamiliar with statistics I suggest some reading up on "reversion to the mean". Our long-term position in England''s footballing hierarchy is lower top flight to upper second flight and that''s exactly how we are now performing. I don''t discount that with a following wind we might reach the top ten in a good year, after all, it''s something we have done it before.I can understand the disappointment of those raised on the glory years but I did warn at the time that we needed to enjoy that ride because there would inevitably be a turning point. I take no pleasure in being proved right and sixty years of supporting NCFC has shown me that our club at least provides us with an exciting roller coaster ride, be it promotion or relegation. Just think how lucky you are, if you''d been born a Man Utd fan you would have to endure years of unrelenting success.

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[quote user="ricardo"]Anyone viewing the Lambert years as some kind of template for the future has obviously not been a supporter of NCFC for very long . You don''t have to be prescient to know that clubs of our stature have their ups and downs over time and that NCFC have been on a very enjoyable 4-5 year upswing. Now things have leveled out and the present path is very much pointed downhill.For those unfamiliar with statistics I suggest some reading up on "reversion to the mean". Our long-term position in England''s footballing hierarchy is lower top flight to upper second flight and that''s exactly how we are now performing. I don''t discount that with a following wind we might reach the top ten in a good year, after all, it''s something we have done it before.I can understand the disappointment of those raised on the glory years but I did warn at the time that we needed to enjoy that ride because there would inevitably be a turning point. I take no pleasure in being proved right and sixty years of supporting NCFC has shown me that our club at least provides us with an exciting roller coaster ride, be it promotion or relegation. Just think how lucky you are, if you''d been born a Man Utd fan you would have to endure years of unrelenting success.[/quote]

 

And we all bow down to you and your years of experience. This is what''s annoying about this forum. A poster takes time out to write an article, asking for an opinion on the piece and you get this.

I''m sure he/she didn''t want a history lesson. I wouldn''t bother mate...

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Whilst I can''t come close to 65 years of supporting City, I can remember the highs of the early 90s and the lows of the late 90s and 00''s.  The underlining reason for most previous lows has been a simple lack of cash.  In our current situation money really isn''t the cause.  Yes I know we don''t have the same sort of money as many others in the league, but we''re not reliant on free transfers and loans.  I believe we have a squad that should be competing in games, not rolling over after we concede a goal and as you''ll have guessed by now, it all rolls back to the gaffer and his inability to maximise the resources available.

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Perhaps something you should take into consideration is the squad we ended up with when Lambert left.

It was essentially a Championship squad. I would argue there wasn''t an enormous change in average player ability during Lambert''s tenure. So, we had an excellent squad for L1, a good squad for the Champs, but a below par one for the Prem. The momentum generated by our L1 superiority - plus Lambert''s undoubted man-management abilities - carried us through the Champs & we arrived in the Prem with a nothing to lose, let''s give it a go & see what happens attitude, both in the team & in the support. We had absolutely nothing to lose & everything to gain.

The opposition didn''t know what to make of us.I remember Morison totally surprising an Arsenal centre back when he loped back & robbed the ball off him. We just weren''t supposed to do that! And Grant Holt .. they expected a big static lump & got a shrewd, in-your-face for 90 minutes nightmare who was far more mobile that anyone with his bulk & strength had any right to be.

It couldn''t last, Lambert knew that. So off he went.

And now began the task of trying to build a team with proper Premiership players. Easy peasy, now we had all that money. Except so did everyone else. But Hughton did well, getting Fer, Tettey, Redmond, RvW, Bassong et al at decent prices. but that still means a pretty thin squad, & a lot of players to bed in & get to know each other''s game in a tough, unforgiving environment.

And - at long last - the team started to look like it might do something; the midfield started operating as a unit, &, perhaps with Ricky fit, we''d find a way to start attacking in earnest.

Then, in one game, we lose Tettey, Snodgrass & Redmond. Three players we can ill afford to lose - Tettey especially, who was a key part of an excellent midfield trio.

We go to Man City, looking pretty demoralised from the off. Then three quick goals. The first, one of the most ridiculous own goals ever, the second eminently saveable, the third deflected past an unsighted goalie. If we looked demoralised at the start, then pure & utter dejection could only describe our plight now.

So where to now? Who knows. The next game is, in terms of luck, as unpredictable as any other. We can only hope the players have the resolve to fight for everything. Even then, if we lose again, the manager will be under extreme pressure. Should he go? Could anyone do better? For me, it''s impossible to know. Everything is a gamble.

But soon the Board will have to make a gamble. Stick or twist. I''m just glad it''s not my decision.

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[quote user="vlad666"]

[quote user="ricardo"]Anyone viewing the Lambert years as some kind of template for the future has obviously not been a supporter of NCFC for very long . You don''t have to be prescient to know that clubs of our stature have their ups and downs over time and that NCFC have been on a very enjoyable 4-5 year upswing. Now things have leveled out and the present path is very much pointed downhill.For those unfamiliar with statistics I suggest some reading up on "reversion to the mean". Our long-term position in England''s footballing hierarchy is lower top flight to upper second flight and that''s exactly how we are now performing. I don''t discount that with a following wind we might reach the top ten in a good year, after all, it''s something we have done it before.I can understand the disappointment of those raised on the glory years but I did warn at the time that we needed to enjoy that ride because there would inevitably be a turning point. I take no pleasure in being proved right and sixty years of supporting NCFC has shown me that our club at least provides us with an exciting roller coaster ride, be it promotion or relegation. Just think how lucky you are, if you''d been born a Man Utd fan you would have to endure years of unrelenting success.[/quote]

There''s always some that don''t get it.

I''m sure you will given time.

And we all bow down to you and your years of experience. This is what''s annoying about this forum. A poster takes time out to write an article, asking for an opinion on the piece and you get this.

I''m sure he/she didn''t want a history lesson. I wouldn''t bother mate...

[/quote]

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[quote user="GenerationA47"]I like the Ron Obvious ''article'' above. It feels more relevant to the current time and also somehow more balanced.[/quote]

 

Yeah, Ron has got it spot on.

 

I take the point about Grant Holt particularly.  It''s only now he''s gone that you appreciate how good he was for us.  We hopefully called Elmander the "Swedish Grant Holt" but unfortunately so far the resemblance is just the way he looks, not the way he plays.  The great thing about GH was that he would always make an impact on a game and give you something up front to worry the opposition.  Whereas at the moment when we play Elmander or Hooper, the opposing CBs are getting an easy ride.

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[quote user="Sussexyellow"]I am just thankful that I have not had to endure years of unrelenting success Ricardo. [;)][/quote]Yes, but a roller coaster ride will always be more fun than a roundabout.[;)]

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Absolutely Ricardo, that''s the choice we have made. Hence the wink.
Of course on a real roller coaster ride the downs are more fun than the ups - but the analogy is still a good one.

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[quote user="vlad666"]This is what''s annoying about this forum. A poster takes time out to write an article, asking for an opinion on the piece and you get this.

I''m sure he/she didn''t want a history lesson. I wouldn''t bother mate...

[/quote]I read it and being honest the poster wouldn''t want to know my opinion of it. He/She does need to get over Lambert leaving though.

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[quote user="Davros from Lowestoft"][quote user="vlad666"]This is what''s annoying about this forum. A poster takes time out to write an article, asking for an opinion on the piece and you get this.

I''m sure he/she didn''t want a history lesson. I wouldn''t bother mate...

[/quote]I read it and being honest the poster wouldn''t want to know my opinion of it. He/She does need to get over Lambert leaving though.[/quote] Agreed, which seemed to be the whole point of the original article.The point of the history lesson was to demonstrate that for every Lambert there are lots of Roeders, Grants and Megsons.

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The point of the article is to demonstrate MY thoughts as to why Hughton isnt working/was never likely to work.

If Hughton had followed the manager after Lambert he might just have had a better chance of succeeding (ofc that''s just my opinion, we''ll never know!).

It''s not really an article crying for Lambert.... it''s an article to explain why I dont think Hughton has worked (at least not yet).

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[quote user="RvWs 4 year contract"]The point of the article is to demonstrate MY thoughts as to why Hughton isnt working/was never likely to work.

If Hughton had followed the manager after Lambert he might just have had a better chance of succeeding (ofc that''s just my opinion, we''ll never know!).

It''s not really an article crying for Lambert.... it''s an article to explain why I dont think Hughton has worked (at least not yet).[/quote]

The problem being of course that nobody was going to be a good follow on act after Lambert. After 3 amazing seasons of success and excitement unparallelled in NCFC history the follow on guy was always going to be on a hiding to nothing.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="RvWs 4 year contract"]The point of the article is to demonstrate MY thoughts as to why Hughton isnt working/was never likely to work.

If Hughton had followed the manager after Lambert he might just have had a better chance of succeeding (ofc that''s just my opinion, we''ll never know!).

It''s not really an article crying for Lambert.... it''s an article to explain why I dont think Hughton has worked (at least not yet).[/quote]

The problem being of course that nobody was going to be a good follow on act after Lambert. After 3 amazing seasons of success and excitement unparallelled in NCFC history the follow on guy was always going to be on a hiding to nothing.[/quote]Agree totally. Moyes is having the same problem at United I believe (although obviously Sir Alex  is/was a bigger force than Lambert).

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[quote user="ricardo"]Anyone viewing the Lambert years as some kind of template for the future has obviously not been a supporter of NCFC for very long . You don''t have to be prescient to know that clubs of our stature have their ups and downs over time and that NCFC have been on a very enjoyable 4-5 year upswing. Now things have leveled out and the present path is very much pointed downhill.For those unfamiliar with statistics I suggest some reading up on "reversion to the mean". Our long-term position in England''s footballing hierarchy is lower top flight to upper second flight and that''s exactly how we are now performing. I don''t discount that with a following wind we might reach the top ten in a good year, after all, it''s something we have done it before.I can understand the disappointment of those raised on the glory years but I did warn at the time that we needed to enjoy that ride because there would inevitably be a turning point. I take no pleasure in being proved right and sixty years of supporting NCFC has shown me that our club at least provides us with an exciting roller coaster ride, be it promotion or relegation. Just think how lucky you are, if you''d been born a Man Utd fan you would have to endure years of unrelenting success.[/quote]

 

That is too apocalyptic. Postwar, we were a club that was essentially third-tier. Then we became second tier/first tier. Now our natural position is indeed top of the second tier/lower first tier. So even if we were to be relegated that would be par for the course. Which is different from being pointed downhill.For that to be the case the club would have to be in a far more widespread mess than just having a manager who may not be up to the job. On the contrary the essentials are fine. Probably as good as at any time in my supporting lifetime, except possibly for the South/Bond era, and the early Chase years. No external debt, we own everything we want to own, a boardroom full of wisdom, experience and relentless drive (albeit sometimes too much), a youth cup in the cabinet and a top of the range academy.Some clubs are plainly on the slide. We were a few years ago. But that is not us now. There is not even  the certainty of relegation. We could easily survive this season, with or without Hughton.

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hated the line: ''He just isn''t Lambert''

I don''t think or say that, and I really don''t want to meet the people who have said that. Pathetic and the definition of tinpot.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="ricardo"]Anyone viewing the Lambert years as some kind of template for the future has obviously not been a supporter of NCFC for very long . You don''t have to be prescient to know that clubs of our stature have their ups and downs over time and that NCFC have been on a very enjoyable 4-5 year upswing. Now things have leveled out and the present path is very much pointed downhill.For those unfamiliar with statistics I suggest some reading up on "reversion to the mean". Our long-term position in England''s footballing hierarchy is lower top flight to upper second flight and that''s exactly how we are now performing. I don''t discount that with a following wind we might reach the top ten in a good year, after all, it''s something we have done it before.I can understand the disappointment of those raised on the glory years but I did warn at the time that we needed to enjoy that ride because there would inevitably be a turning point. I take no pleasure in being proved right and sixty years of supporting NCFC has shown me that our club at least provides us with an exciting roller coaster ride, be it promotion or relegation. Just think how lucky you are, if you''d been born a Man Utd fan you would have to endure years of unrelenting success.[/quote]

 

That is too apocalyptic. Postwar, we were a club that was essentially third-tier. Then we became second tier/first tier. Now our natural position is indeed top of the second tier/lower first tier. So even if we were to be relegated that would be par for the course. Which is different from being pointed downhill.For that to be the case the club would have to be in a far more widespread mess than just having a manager who may not be up to the job. On the contrary the essentials are fine. Probably as good as at any time in my supporting lifetime, except possibly for the South/Bond era, and the early Chase years. No external debt, we own everything we want to own, a boardroom full of wisdom, experience and relentless drive (albeit sometimes too much), a youth cup in the cabinet and a top of the range academy.Some clubs are plainly on the slide. We were a few years ago. But that is not us now. There is not even  the certainty of relegation. We could easily survive this season, with or without Hughton.

[/quote]It depends on where you would like to place you starting point of what we might call "the modern era". I would argue that the last 50 years is a pretty fair time scale in which to come to a sensible conclusion of our natural position in the English game. Looking only at the Premiership since its inception in 1992 we are placed 25th all time but of course we had many good years in the top flight before this date. In which case you could make a cogent argument that certain clubs ahead of us in the stats (Charlton, Coventry, Leicester, Wigan) should in reality be below us. However there are teams below us (Forest, Derby,1p5wich, Wolves, Leeds) who could equally argue that based on a 50 yr timescale ought to be placed above us.Finances obviously play a part but as we have seen ourselves, considerable debts can be quickly wiped out after a couple of seasons of Premiership football. That is something that shouldn''t be beyond the abilities of a number of Championship clubs who think they should be considered as in the same part of the ballpark as NCFC. Even with our present comfortable financial position it is hard to argue that we are within the top dozen richest teams in the country.Bearing all this in mind I find it difficult to argue that we should be considered as perpetual top flight contenders.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="ricardo"]Anyone viewing the Lambert years as some kind of template for the future has obviously not been a supporter of NCFC for very long . You don''t have to be prescient to know that clubs of our stature have their ups and downs over time and that NCFC have been on a very enjoyable 4-5 year upswing. Now things have leveled out and the present path is very much pointed downhill.For those unfamiliar with statistics I suggest some reading up on "reversion to the mean". Our long-term position in England''s footballing hierarchy is lower top flight to upper second flight and that''s exactly how we are now performing. I don''t discount that with a following wind we might reach the top ten in a good year, after all, it''s something we have done it before.I can understand the disappointment of those raised on the glory years but I did warn at the time that we needed to enjoy that ride because there would inevitably be a turning point. I take no pleasure in being proved right and sixty years of supporting NCFC has shown me that our club at least provides us with an exciting roller coaster ride, be it promotion or relegation. Just think how lucky you are, if you''d been born a Man Utd fan you would have to endure years of unrelenting success.[/quote]

 

That is too apocalyptic. Postwar, we were a club that was essentially third-tier. Then we became second tier/first tier. Now our natural position is indeed top of the second tier/lower first tier. So even if we were to be relegated that would be par for the course. Which is different from being pointed downhill.For that to be the case the club would have to be in a far more widespread mess than just having a manager who may not be up to the job. On the contrary the essentials are fine. Probably as good as at any time in my supporting lifetime, except possibly for the South/Bond era, and the early Chase years. No external debt, we own everything we want to own, a boardroom full of wisdom, experience and relentless drive (albeit sometimes too much), a youth cup in the cabinet and a top of the range academy.Some clubs are plainly on the slide. We were a few years ago. But that is not us now. There is not even  the certainty of relegation. We could easily survive this season, with or without Hughton.

[/quote]It depends on where you would like to place you starting point of what we might call "the modern era". I would argue that the last 50 years is a pretty fair time scale in which to come to a sensible conclusion of our natural position in the English game. Looking only at the Premiership since its inception in 1992 we are placed 25th all time but of course we had many good years in the top flight before this date. In which case you could make a cogent argument that certain clubs ahead of us in the stats (Charlton, Coventry, Leicester, Wigan) should in reality be below us. However there are teams below us (Forest, Derby,1p5wich, Wolves, Leeds) who could equally argue that based on a 50 yr timescale ought to be placed above us.Finances obviously play a part but as we have seen ourselves, considerable debts can be quickly wiped out after a couple of seasons of Premiership football. That is something that shouldn''t be beyond the abilities of a number of Championship clubs who think they should be considered as in the same part of the ballpark as NCFC. Even with our present comfortable financial position it is hard to argue that we are within the top dozen richest teams in the country.Bearing all this in mind I find it difficult to argue that we should be considered as perpetual top flight contenders. [/quote]

 

That''s certainly not something I''ve ever argued.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

 

That''s certainly not something I''ve ever argued.

[/quote]Indeed, but many on this forum seem to think its a given.

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