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Jim Smith

Hughton outers - when did you turn?

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]I know, I know, Morty. As I say, it''s only a slight nagging doubt, but it would not be the first time that our board (and many others) have failed to act decisively and quickly in the face of such overwhelming evidence.

And there are several people on this board who are, and no doubt will be, advocating more time. "Holding our nerve" etc.

But perhaps I''m being paranoid. I predict a "contract terminated by mutual consent " fudge, btw.....[/quote]I would love Chris and the players to turn this around, I really would, that would be the best result for everyone.And their chance to show everyone, the board, the fans, themselves, that the collective have the gut for the fight, is Saturday.We''re on the back of two big spankings, the manager is under pressure to deliver, as he has been all season. I''m sorry but get it wrong on Saturday, and thats the bullets loaded.As I have said before, I want Hughton to stay and succeed, on the premise he still has the players fighting for him, that question will be answered for me on Saturday.

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The home friendly versus Bayern Monchengladbach.

I was alarmed at what i was watching and thought this doesnt look good. I understood exactly what tactics Hughton was trying to employ and the following season went exactly as i thought it would.

Ive wanted him gone ever since he ripped the heart and soul out of Lamberts team in that pre season.

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Reading away last season was a concern, but I was happy to see that as a blip at the time.  For me it was really during the early part of this calendar year when we continued to line up with the same formation and tactics despite the poor results that I felt things were not working out for Hughton at Norwich.I was lambasted for suggestion it was time for Hughton to go after achieving survival, but unfortunately for everyone it looks like my fears have been realised.

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Just look at Holty last season, who incidentally couldnt wait to escape in the summer and i dont blame him.

Holt, while being a legend for us, was a limited player, but he definitley had his strengths. Strengths that Lambert recognised and exploited. The team was setup to get the best out of Holt for 3 yrs. And for 3yrs we won football matches because of it.

What does hapless Hughton do? Abandon what was working, starve our top scorer and match winner of chances to influence the game, let alone score goals, and adopt a different approach which at times isolated our top striker, a striker who finished second highest english striker the season before and was touted for England.

Nice one Hughton.

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The writing was on the wall during his first pre season we posh 1-0 lol what a joke then the tactics continued however after seeing fer,winky and hooper come in I thought fair play give him a chance but the hull game was final straw for me

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Hmm, I wish I shared your clarity of vision and confidence on this Morty ! To my mind there IS a debate, and it largely hinges on what happens on Sat evening if the performance is as dire and unimpressive as ever, but we manage to scrape a one -nil win. Or , conversely, if we play superbly, but as a result of some dodgy offside decision or similar, only get a draw. I''m sure you''ll concede that these scenarios are not completely beyond the realms of possibility. What would your take be then ?[/quote]

 

It''s a fair point.  If we fail to win but play well (like vs Cardiff), or get 3 points despite playing poorly, either way he gets more time in my book (and obviously if we play well and win).  If the team play badly and draw or lose, clearly the pressure mounts massively.  TBH I''m not sure if I know how I''ll feel if that happens, and given the 2 week break the Board might then make a move.

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I was very sceptical of Hughton after his first game in charge - losing 5-0 at Fulham, off the back of a shocking pre-season where we struggled to score a goal. The pattern was set then for me, and I knew we were in for a struggle with Hughton at the helm. However, I did know that the new manager deserved more time, and the results slowly improved, ending in what can now only be described as ''that 10 game blip" where we went unbeaten. Since that run, results and performances have on the whole been appalling.

 

But the game that made me turn into a full on Hughton outer was the home defeat to Luton in the FA Cup. Losing to a non-league team as a Premiership team is unforgiveable. And showed to me to just how tactically useless the man is that he was unable to alter our defensive game to take on a bunch of part timers and win (as we should have done comfortably). David Stringer was made of firmer stuff as a top flight manager, his team took Sutton United apart 8-0. Hoots couldn''t even get our team to muster a goal. Utterly pathetic.

 

This season has just been a continuation of the appalling 2013 run. And quite frankly whatever the result V West Ham, the man should go. Because the trend and pattern has set in and I cannot see Hughton having the tactical nous, motivational ability, or talent to turn things around.  

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[quote user="morty"]Yay, another thread saying pretty much exactly the same as the 463 other "Hughton out" threads.[/quote]And yet you feel in necessary to make 11 contributions to to the thread saying exactly what you''ve said in the other 463 Hughton out threads.

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To add to the debate, being a Hughton outer or a Hughton iner, isnt really the point is it? We base our opinions on what we see, how we feel and of course the results.

I want Norwich to do well, stay up and win more than they lose. I accept that we are unlikely to beat certain teams, but I still want to feel that we gave it a go. I don''t want people sending me photos on mugs as I received today suggesting the City are "laughing stocks"

 

When I look backwards I recognise a growing sense of disillusionment which started when I watched Pilkington being coached to not advance too much and stay in shape. This was around the time of the  Fulham and Southampton games at home when we really did look like we were trying to crawl across the line. We then had a great first half against Spurs – only to see us shut up shop again. We interspersed this with that run of away games where we struggled to have a shot.

 

I just had the feeling that we were on a slippery slope.

 

After the excitement of the West Brom and Man City games ,  I was hopeful that we could turn a corner and was ultra excited about our signings. But this season I’m back at the disillusioned stage again, and I have a horrible feeling of inevitability about it all.

 

I do listen to the argument that expectation must be realistic (I’ve been going to Carrow Road since 1972) but I noticed the other night that even one of the more optimistic posters said we are  ”not good enough” . I''m not sure that is true. As I''ve said before we have highly respected International players , I can''t help but think they need to play in a system that works for them. So my question is , is CH and his team up to the job?  

 

Do I want CH out? No, I want him to do well. I want to raise a glass at Christmas as I have the last several ayears, to half a season and a job well done. Do I want him out if we lose to West Ham? Yes. I think it will be inevitable.  We would be too far down the road to save him. Do I feel sorry for him? Absolutely not. Managers know exactly what the score is. And he will be well paid either way.  

 

 

 

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[quote user="Making Plans"][quote user="morty"]Yay, another thread saying pretty much exactly the same as the 463 other "Hughton out" threads.[/quote]And yet you feel in necessary to make 11 contributions to to the thread saying exactly what you''ve said in the other 463 Hughton out threads.[/quote]I''ll contribute where I like fella[Y]

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Two tickets stubs for games in Manchester over the last seven days, could anyone really endure that and not feel its time for a change?

The manager is a lovely bloke undeniably, he has I believe a pretty good eye for a player and whilst not all turn out the way we hope neither do any mangers signings.

Had he have chosen to completely overhaul his back room staff this summer for me at least I think it''d have shown more in the way of positive action to address some very worrying signs. He chose not to and as such isn''t exactly going to get very much more patience from the support.

For my many sins I don''t think I''ve missed any of his games in charge and the overwhelming sense is one of being so so negative when there really was no need. As mentioned elsewhere the Reading game away last season typifies his approach, Hull this season beggared belief and the list continues to grow.

Rather regrettably I feel its time for the board to do what it has to do.

Shame though, he''s one of the good guys.

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[quote user="Huckerbys Boots - Matt"]Just look at Holty last season, who incidentally couldnt wait to escape in the summer and i dont blame him. Holt, while being a legend for us, was a limited player, but he definitley had his strengths. Strengths that Lambert recognised and exploited. The team was setup to get the best out of Holt for 3 yrs. And for 3yrs we won football matches because of it. What does hapless Hughton do? Abandon what was working, starve our top scorer and match winner of chances to influence the game, let alone score goals, and adopt a different approach which at times isolated our top striker, a striker who finished second highest english striker the season before and was touted for England. Nice one Hughton.[/quote]

Sorry, is this the same Holt who is currently warming the bench at Wigan in the Champs?

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Villa at Carrow Road this season. Tired of looking so toothless and slumping to another disappointing result and all in front of the guy who propelled us up the leagues with a bold, brave, dynamic, gutsy, passionate, versatile and exciting brand of football.

Thread by thread Hughton had undone virtually all of the brilliant work of Lambert and that game (as a contrast to Lambert''s last fixture in charge here) made it too stark for me to keep giving Hughton time.

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Huckerbys Boots Matt

The home friendly versus Bayern Monchengladbach.

I was alarmed at what i was watching and thought this doesnt look good. I understood exactly what tactics Hughton was trying to employ and the following season went exactly as i thought it would.

Ive wanted him gone ever since he ripped the heart and soul out of Lamberts team in that pre season.

FFS The geezer never stood a chance did he?! Not even a proper game had been played and your mind was made up.

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I think it was the Spurs game that really started to concern me btw. A whole season and a few million spent and no change, no adventure and no spirit.

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I''m on record suggesting that if we were relegated we should keep Hughton but if we stayed up we should bring in.someone new. I felt by last March we were a poor set up. wigan an especially low point with Kamara up in attack on his own. It was the nature of the tactics and inability to create momentum within a game that persuaded me. And I''ve never been one for quick dismissals. I wasn''t fooled by West Brom (posters may recall I predicted 4-0 before amazingly) although Man City gave me some hope. The new season started again with discussion about Holt leaving, the Vaughan episode (where he looked most likely to click for us). I felt CH was a strong and stubborn manager at the time, no bad thing but with this came an inflexible approach in games. Not my kind of Norwich City but in then the last 3 years I had been completely spoiled. He had a difficult job to start. But my allegiance failed 80% through his first season.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]I suspect that for most of us in the Hughton out camp the belief is borne more from watching him and us over the course of his reign and the general feel that he is not quite up to it but what were the particular moments for you when the doubts started to creep in and/or the realisation started to hit home. For me there are many but ones that particularly spring to mind are:

Reading (a) - first doubts emerge in my mind as i watch us going through the motions and playing out a bore draw against a woeful side who were there for the taking. Portrayed afterwards as a useful point which formed part of our unbeaten run (and in the context of what had gone before i can see why) but in reality it was a sign of what was to come in terms of approaches to away games against weaker teams.

WBA (a) - real alarm bells start to ring. Despite being in good form and playing well for the first 35 minutes we are hauled back by an unlucky goal just before half time. In the second half, one manager persists with his lone striker system and is reluctant to make changes. Clarke realises we are posing them absolutely no threat up front and playing with little ambition and takes off defensive players ending up with 3 strikers. His positivity is rewarded with 3 points, our unbeaten run ends and from that point the slide begins.

Wigan (a) - 6 pointed v a relegation rival. Second half we show zero ambition and seem determined to play for a point. We deservedly lose.

Despite this Hughton to his credit keeps us up. My attitude going into this season is that maybe the style of play was a means to an end and things will be different now he has been able to buy his own attacking players. I therefore resolve to give him a couple of months to see if there is any discernable difference in his approach:

Spurs (a) - oh dear. Up there with any of the shocking away displays from last season, in fact if anything worse as we back off, surrender space and possession and generally hand them the game on a plate. My resolve to give Hughton the benefit of the doubt has now gone.

Arsenal (a) - that Tettey substitution. Possibly the worst tactical substitution I have ever seen (after 20 minutes debate with Trollope and the i-pad) and further evidence of a manager who does not know how to change/influence/read games floundering for the right move knowing they are under increasing pressure.

Man City (a) - for the first time in 20 plus years I did not want to watch our game at all. I heard we were 4 nil down at half time and then heard the final score and was not in the slightest but surprised on either occasion.

I am sure there are many others. I am sure also that people will have incidents of Hughton''s genius to counter the above and demonstrate clearly why he is the man for the job but this is a thread for the misers amongst us to share our angst!

PS Interesting reading the Brum fan thread below and the reference to the Birmingham v Blackpool playoff games. i also watched that second leg at Blackpool expecting it to be a great game but thought Birmingham were completely clueless and had no idea how to win that game. Never came to mind before but the mention below has reminded me of it.[/quote]Fulham away

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Reading away, later followed by Newcastle at home - games we didn''t appear to try to win and we''re happy to defend the 0-0. A strategy that was followed in subsequent away games. I thought, somewhat naively I accept, that the management team would have been moved on last Summer after taking us to the brink of relegation last season. I suspect we are near the end game at last; failure to act will undoubtedly return us to the championship.

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For me ''twas as the game at old Trafford unfolded last Tuesday. Everything just felt wrong - body language, effort, tactics. I had a long journey back north to ponder what I''ve seen under hughton and I have to say its not very enjoyable or effective. I have no doubt to give him the benefit of anymore

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Had serious concerns when after last season''s very narrow escape we seemed to have set out our stall the same again this year.In his first year, despite some very cautious games before the 10 match run and especially after, it could fairly be said that Hughton needed to secure our Premier League status before investing in some better players in the close season.He did both but we don''t seem to have made any real progress.

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I was concerned post Xmas last season, but the final nail in he coffin was villa at home this season, Lambo rubbed our noses in it and if Hughton couldn''t even raise the game to make a point versus the old governor then when the hell can he , Mr Motivation NOT.....

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[quote user="Herman "]I think it was the Spurs game that really started to concern me btw. A whole season and a few million spent and no change, no adventure and no spirit.[/quote]

 

This^^^

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My impression leaving that game was that a lot of the fans had seen enough of Mr Hughton.

The players got it in the neck at the end as well though!

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Hughton will get sacked even if we win saturday. Overall his results have been very poor and McNally cant ignore that. He will stay for sat because we are more likely to get a result under him than a caretaker manager or god help us Colin Calderwood.

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