Marcelo Bielsa

[*** 0]

[quote user="Pitchforks Torches"]Can see 1stWiz predicting Mike Walker III arriving ahead of this[/quote]

 

I am, for a few seconds, going to believe this and go all moist, then I''ll wake up and say its too early for my Christmas pressies.[:''(]

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Ok missed that he had been at Bilbao, but they have hardly the reputation of being one of Europe''s success stories. I have no problem whatsoever with a coach from overseas but I do think they need a proven track record in one of the top divisions. I have no idea who, out there and I am far from convinced the Board do either. Hughton has not gone yet anyway albeit in the absence of a couple of quick wins I accept it may not be too long away. We need to follow the Swansea line ie pick a manager to fit the ethos of play that we want and the players we have at the club. Lambert has gone but we all prefer that attacking cavalier style of play rather than the turgid stuff that we have been served up with since the beginning of last season. With the players we have we could be far more successful with a more positive outloook

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

If Bielsa came to Norwich I''d be straight down the booking putting money on relegation.

 

He is a great coach and manager - but in my opinion only RvW and Fer could fit into his style. Imagine Bradley Johnson trying to play in Bielsa team, nightmarish stuff.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Yorkshire Canary"]Ok missed that he had been at Bilbao, but they have hardly the reputation of being one of Europe''s success stories. I have no problem whatsoever with a coach from overseas but I do think they need a proven track record in one of the top divisions. I have no idea who, out there and I am far from convinced the Board do either. Hughton has not gone yet anyway albeit in the absence of a couple of quick wins I accept it may not be too long away. We need to follow the Swansea line ie pick a manager to fit the ethos of play that we want and the players we have at the club. Lambert has gone but we all prefer that attacking cavalier style of play rather than the turgid stuff that we have been served up with since the beginning of last season. With the players we have we could be far more successful with a more positive outloook[/quote]

 

Weren''t Bilbao under Bielsa one of the big success stories of 2012? Especially when then completely outplayed Man U over two legs in the Europa League?

[SwindonCanary 455]

I believe the board will have a choice of who they want to take over if Hughton goes, but I don''t think they will make any move, or even inquiry about a replacement until we no longer have a manager. 

[ron obvious 1,502]

But would that be a bad thing, BY&G? What could he do with Wes? Could he reignite his talents?

We might get relegated. We might anyway. But I reckon it''d be damn exciting!!

[*** 0]

[quote user="swindoncanary"]I believe the board will have a choice of who they want to take over if Hughton goes, but I don''t think they will make any move, or even inquiry about a replacement until we no longer have a manager. 
[/quote]

 

You really belive that swindon?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="ron obvious"]But would that be a bad thing, BY&G? What could he do with Wes? Could he reignite his talents? We might get relegated. We might anyway. But I reckon it''d be damn exciting!![/quote]

To make such a massive change in style midseason would not be good idea. Appoint him in a close season and give him £30m to bring in his own players could work. But I can just see him trying to force the current players into a system they don''t understand and play a way that isn''t natural to them.

 

And if he was appointed and Norwich get relegated he''d be off and Norwich would be left trying to then revert to another manager''s style. The most successful appointments are managers who don''t come in and try to change everything overnight. Laudrup has worked so well at Swansea becuase their squad fitted his style and he could add to it using knowledge of bargains in the Spain. Pochettino worked at Southampton because he changed very little at first, but has slowly developed their style over the year.

 

As an ideologist Bielsa wouldn''t have that flexibilty - which is part of the reason his career has been so hit and miss.

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="ron obvious"]But would that be a bad thing, BY&G? What could he do with Wes? Could he reignite his talents? We might get relegated. We might anyway. But I reckon it''d be damn exciting!![/quote]

To make such a massive change in style midseason would not be good idea. Appoint him in a close season and give him £30m to bring in his own players could work. But I can just see him trying to force the current players into a system they don''t understand and play a way that isn''t natural to them.

 

And if he was appointed and Norwich get relegated he''d be off and Norwich would be left trying to then revert to another manager''s style. The most successful appointments are managers who don''t come in and try to change everything overnight. Laudrup has worked so well at Swansea becuase their squad fitted his style and he could add to it using knowledge of bargains in the Spain. Pochettino worked at Southampton because he changed very little at first, but has slowly developed their style over the year.

 

As an ideologist Bielsa wouldn''t have that flexibilty - which is part of the reason his career has been so hit and miss.

 

 

[/quote]

What us his style Bethnal? I assume from your comments it revolves more around ball retention and fluidity?

Surely in Howson, Fer, Tettey and Wes we have players who would be capable of doing that. Our full backs are all decent enough on the ball. We have 3 decent wingers. Yes we''d probably need to buy a couple of players in January but I don;t see our team these days as being a technically limited as it used to be. Surely a decent coach./manager should be capable of working with what we have and if necessary supplementing it in January?

I accept it may be a risk but i think any manager who is genuinely trying to be progressive would be received well by the fans and perhaps given a bit of leeway.

[MancCanary 0]

Where did you see that?

[MancCanary 0]

"interesting" article on his coaching style here:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1381408-why-marcelo-bielsa-employ-the-most-bizarre-tactics-in-football

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

[quote user="ron obvious"]But would that be a bad thing, BY&G? What could he do with Wes? Could he reignite his talents? We might get relegated. We might anyway. But I reckon it''d be damn exciting!![/quote]

To make such a massive change in style midseason would not be good idea. Appoint him in a close season and give him £30m to bring in his own players could work. But I can just see him trying to force the current players into a system they don''t understand and play a way that isn''t natural to them.

 

And if he was appointed and Norwich get relegated he''d be off and Norwich would be left trying to then revert to another manager''s style. The most successful appointments are managers who don''t come in and try to change everything overnight. Laudrup has worked so well at Swansea becuase their squad fitted his style and he could add to it using knowledge of bargains in the Spain. Pochettino worked at Southampton because he changed very little at first, but has slowly developed their style over the year.

 

As an ideologist Bielsa wouldn''t have that flexibilty - which is part of the reason his career has been so hit and miss.

 

 

[/quote] What us his style Bethnal? I assume from your comments it revolves more around ball retention and fluidity? Surely in Howson, Fer, Tettey and Wes we have players who would be capable of doing that. Our full backs are all decent enough on the ball. We have 3 decent wingers. Yes we''d probably need to buy a couple of players in January but I don;t see our team these days as being a technically limited as it used to be. Surely a decent coach./manager should be capable of working with what we have and if necessary supplementing it in January? I accept it may be a risk but i think any manager who is genuinely trying to be progressive would be received well by the fans and perhaps given a bit of leeway.[/quote]

 

He plays a 3-3-1-3 and total football. He inspired Pepe and is a large force behind the whole tiki-taka system employed by Barcelona. He is probably one of the most blogged about and analysed managers around and there are millions of pieces that can describe his style in much more detail than I want to go into on what is basically a made up rumour. I will say I think you are overrating the technical abilities of many of the Norwich players if you think they could suddenly switch to this kind of system - it takes players brought up on this kind of football months to adapt.

 

I''m all for a progressive manager, but you can''t jump straight to the most progressive manager in the world from a standing start, especially in the middle of a season when points are needed quickly.

[blahblahblah 2]

So where is the next Pochettino, Bethnal ? :)

Is there even one available ?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,557]

[quote user="blahblahblah"]So where is the next Pochettino, Bethnal ? :) Is there even one available ?[/quote]

 

I''m sure there are many managers out there as capable as Pochettino (who hasn''t do anything THAT remarkable at Southampton in my opinion).

 

The issue is it takes months of research to find them, the Southampton chairman had been looking to replace Adkins from the day their promotion was confirmed - he felt he wasn''t a manager that would be successful in the Premier League. So from May until November/December they were scouting out for a replacement. Pochettino was promised the job at least a month before becoming manager at Southampton and had been to watch them play several times and was influencing transfers before arriving at the club. The transition was smooth because he needed no time to ''catch up'' on the team and knew what he wanted to do the moment he walked through the door.

 

Clubs often spend months scouting players before signing them, but will appiont a manager after a couple of weeks of searching. It''s no surprise it often goes so horribly wrong. McNally pretty much let on that he had a ready made list of replacements should Lambert walk, if he does choose (with the board) to axe Hughton I hope he kept making that list.

[jb 0]

Suspending disbelief for a moment (surely Bielsa to Norwich would trump even Laudrup to Swansea as the biggest new manager coup in recent PL history?), I could actually see our current squad, even our current first XI working well in Bielsa’s 3-3-1-3 formation – lining up as

 

Ruddy

Martin – Turner (suits the system less) – Bassong

Fer – Tettey – Olsson

Howson/Hoolahan

Snodgrass – RVW – Pilkington/Redmond

 

From what I’ve read (and the little bits I’ve seen – not claiming to be an expert, and totally respect BYAG’s assessment) the wider players in the midfield 3 are less wing backs than box-to-box midfielders, a role which Fer and Olsson have the energy to play well in theory.  The system could also unlock Howson/Hoolahan as a genuine playmaker, and the high line / pressing game would allow the front 3 to play closer together, and so hopefully create more chances for RVW or Hooper. 

 

I think we’d probably be looking at bringing in a quick, ball-playing centre-back (a better Ayala) and maybe a striker who can play wide as well (someone in the Alexis Sanchez mould – is he getting a game at Barca right now?  I jest.) but if the players we have could prove themselves to be adaptable I could see this working.

 

As BYAG points out though, such a radical change in playing style would be hard to implement mid-season – apparently Bielsa has played 4-2-3-1 in the past, so possibly the change could be incremental.

 

Pretty sure he won’t be coming here anyway, just having a little daydream J

jb

[Stone 0]

I mentioned Marcelo Bielsa a week or so ago noting his relative success at Bilbao and ability to produce fluid attacking teams. Bethnal Y&G responded in the same manner as he is posting now, and on further investigation and thought I do think he has a very valid viewpoint. Bielsa is himself incredibly inflexible regarding his tactics. His teams play in this manner, with the same formation regardless. Making such a drastic change at this point in the season could be a disaster. 

 

JB - when I was trying to come up with a side to suit his formation (daydreaming like you) I had Ryan Bennett at the back - the best ball playing CB we have in my opinion.  

 

 

   

[GCanary 0]

Cant see it happening myself but... If he did come in, surely one player that could thrive is the forgotten figure of Andrew Surman? One of the better technical players we''ve got on our books

It would certainly be an interesting ride, but could be a massive shock to the system for some of the players here

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Does the OP have any credibility for this inside info? Any previous reliable info on such items? Sounds very exciting, but sounds wildly unrealistic. Thinking about the system he prefers to use, where does the width come in that system? Id be very wary of 3 at the back. Didnt work for Mancini, doesnt seem to be working for Liverpool (at least not against Arsenal). Think that kind of system would get killed in the EPL. Exciting daydreaming though  :)

[Tetteys Jig 830]

You would have to have 2 very quick and energetic wing backs who have a bit of strength.

Garrido and Olsson are both accustomed wing backs and Whittaker the other side would be reasonable, Martin would slot in as part of the back three.

You then have two combative but technically sound Midfielders, like Fer and Tettey playing DM and shielding the gaps made in the back three when the wingbacks break and they cover.

Then the three up top you need either a powerful link up man or someone with lots of agility, stamina and decent long shots playing in behind two poachers, at least one of which must have pace.

Sounds like it could work.

[The Walking Man 13]

Whilst I see the point about changing styles mid season, we are all advocating a change of style, albeit less dramatic than Bielsa''s blue print.

That said he did take a Chilean side with no national footballing identity and mould them into an attacking force that shocked a lot of people at the World Cup.

I wouldn''t be against Bielsa as an appointment whilst acknowledging that it would be gamble. But every decision from here on in is going to be a gamble. There are no safe bets in football.

Like I''ve said before if we could get Bielsa or Tuchel in I would be most pleased.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

This guy coming then or what?

[The ghost of Michael Theoklitos 0]

I wonder what Fabio Quagliarella thinks...

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]I wonder what Fabio Quagliarella thinks...[/quote]

 

Player Manager? Solve both problems? 

[killercanary29 0]

The odds of us getting Marcelo Bielsa after hughton have been cut from 20-1 to 10-1, still 3rd fav

[Sussexyellow 55]

Because people have been mug enough to put money on him on the back of this rumour.

[Bill 1,788]

there are certain naughty folk who will spread such suggestions only to clean up on places like Betfair - in the safe knowledge that there are enough numpties who still can''t quite grasp that odds reflect the money placed rather than some old guff about  ''the bookies must know something''sadly many are simply copying the antics of sky betting who regularly make a handsome  profit out of the stupidity of their ''customers''