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The Great Mass Debater

Do we have the right players?

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Do we have the right collection of players to make any particular system work? If you took over from Chris Hughton tomorrow, would you feel the need to bring in new players to fill gaps, or because current players dont have the right attributes, or do you think there is a more effective way to play our existing personnel? Is it just a question of shuffling and finding the right combo with the players we have, or are their inadequaciesin the squad (what managers often refer to as the right balance)?

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The short answer to your question is "No". We have a very small effective squad, in the sense that only a few - Ruddy, Bassong (in form), Olsson,  Fer, Howson RvW, possibly Tettey, Turner, Snoddy, and Hooper are Premiership players. The remainder of the normal squad are either still developing - Redmond, Bennett ( x2), or are some way off - Johnson, Elmander. The remainder, in my view, are borderline Premiership, who may have good moments but who also can be liabilities.

 

We have put off enlarging the stand(s) because the club recognises that we need to recruit more top quality players if we are to ensure survival and make an impact.

 

Unless our two centre backs can recapture their best form of last season, I think that we may have to sign someone here, and probably at right back also. Our effective midfield trio are good, but we need cover here also, - a ball-playing and good tackling player. When all are fit we probably have enough wingers. What do we say about the non-striking strikers? It seems that we have only two effective ones, - RvW and Hoops, so there seems a priority there also.

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City have some good players, but last weekend our players showed a lack of commitment and a reluctance to take responsibility, in all a lack of professionalism. No system will work with out those attributes.

Personally, I understand why Hughton likes to fill the midfield, but I think if the defensive unit was stronger, it would enable a more expansive game.

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I think the squad, if all fit is one or two players away from being not bad.Perhaps another quality centre back and that elusive number 10 (if we''re going to persist with one up front)Was a real shame Benno got injured, as I think he showed how much he has improved, and I think he would have been a big part of the managers plans.I also think too many of our "big" players have been carrying niggles unfortunately.

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[quote user="morty"]I think the squad, if all fit is one or two players away from being not bad.Perhaps another quality centre back and that elusive number 10 (if we''re going to persist with one up front)Was a real shame Benno got injured, as I think he showed how much he has improved, and I think he would have been a big part of the managers plans.I also think too many of our "big" players have been carrying niggles unfortunately.[/quote]

 

Even with the undroppable Snodgrass fit? Benno was great before he was injured, and Id have kept him in the team, but had Benno not been injured, Id have been very surprised if Chris hadnt selected his boyfriend Snoddy instead...

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

[quote user="morty"]I think the squad, if all fit is one or two players away from being not bad.Perhaps another quality centre back and that elusive number 10 (if we''re going to persist with one up front)Was a real shame Benno got injured, as I think he showed how much he has improved, and I think he would have been a big part of the managers plans.I also think too many of our "big" players have been carrying niggles unfortunately.[/quote]

 

Even with the undroppable Snodgrass fit? Benno was great before he was injured, and Id have kept him in the team, but had Benno not been injured, Id have been very surprised if Chris hadnt selected his boyfriend Snoddy instead...

[/quote]Really (ignoring the silly "boyfriend" jibe) you are answering your own question there. There is no one seriously challenging For Snoddy''s place, which obviously makes his chances of being picked better.Neither Murphy or Redmond has shown they can do it for 90 minutes, yet.

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Do we have the right collection of players to make any particular system work? If you took over from Chris Hughton tomorrow, would you feel the need to bring in new players to fill gaps, or because current players dont have the right attributes, or do you think there is a more effective way to play our existing personnel? Is it just a question of shuffling and finding the right combo with the players we have, or are their inadequaciesin the squad (what managers often refer to as the right balance)?[/quote]

 

Some people have suggested our 451/433 formation doesn''t suit our players, and I don''t get it because IMO Hughton has settled on this formation because it brings the best out of our players.

 

My answer is that 451 has produced our best performances this season and when we''ve changed by having 2 up front, that has produced very poor performances.  Man City was not down to the formation but to conceding a couple of early goals (one was very bad luck, the other bad goalkeeping) and the squad going into shock after the previous defeats to Chelsea, Arsenal and Man U.

 

The key personnel weakness at the moment is that BJ has played badly when he''s had the chance this season.  But I don''t see a different formation would be more effective so I just hope he''ll step up to the plate.  The injuries on the wing are a worry but I hope Murphy gets a chance to show what he can do - yes it''s a bit of a risk defensively but on Saturday we should be going for it and there should be plenty of cover available.

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What Hughton should be doing is devising a system to suit our players...particularly ones which cost £8.5m....no the other way round.

Instead our players have been reduced to conform to the rigid style of play being imposed on them ,which then doesnt allow them to show their talent and flair

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Not sure I believe that anyone that had actually watched all our games all season could come to the conclusion it is bringing the best out of our players.

In my opinion we have a very good squad missing an all round Number 10 and a further CB but I am generally happy with the squad.

If we had what might be considered an overall good performance this season we me may be able to measure it against something.

Losing a game whilst being allowed to pass the ball nicely in midfield with no penetration counts for nothing.

Scraping a 1-0 win with long range punt whilst defending well doesn''t either.

Unless CH grows the balls to try something different or the board does likewise to get someone else in then we will be relegated of that there is no question.

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Any manager will say he has room for improvement in his squad, we have a mix of players from the likes of Ruddy, at one end of the scale down to Becchio I guess at the other.

I don''t believe we have ever had more international players in the squad than we have now, I''m sure someone will correct me on that.

A quality defensive mid fielder who can read the game and distribute the ball is missing in my view, maybe an effective 10, you could go on.

Surely the point is that the players we have are a marked improvement over what we have had in the recent past, but for whatever reason they are not performing as well as they should.

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Playing a 4-5-1 formation you ideally want quick wingers and a good hold up man. We have neither. We''re so easy to defend against. The time it takes us to work the ball into dangerous areas their players are back into their positions. We''ve seen it all season, our wingers (excluding when Redmond plays) a few yards in front of the fullback and they still fail to deliver.

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[quote user="Salopian"]

The short answer to your question is "No". We have a very small effective squad, in the sense that only a few - Ruddy, Bassong (in form), Olsson,  Fer, Howson RvW, possibly Tettey, Turner, Snoddy, and Hooper are Premiership players.

[/quote]

Turner has been playing in the Prem for 5-6 years, I think he is definitely Prem quality and not "possibly". To be fair to him.

 

I also think Snodgrass and Tettey are too.

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vlad666  It would be great to see a winger that can actually go past a fullback, rather than having to check and cut inside or pass, they`re a pretty rare breed though.  I do see Olsson having that ability and pace, would be interesting to see him playing more of a midfield role. 

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Well the Stoke game that I watched was a comprehensively good performance, away at a place that is notoriously hard.  We could easily have won by more goals there and probably should have.  If anyone who watched it thinks it was "scraping a win" then they''re just on a different planet to me.

 

Also I notice a lack of suggestions for a different formation that could bring more out of our players... except people bleating about 2 up front which would be a recipe for disaster against West Ham''s 6 in midfield.

 

 

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No.

I think that apart from Ryan Bennett our two centre backs, Turner and Bassong have no competition and they certainly have very little understanding between one another.

This is probably why Hughton packs the midfield and uses Tettey as an additional defender sat in front of these two. By doing this and not having a strong enough defence we are always going to be lacking in attacking options.

I feel we need a couple of good sound defenders to shake up the defence and also a leader. Bassong is not a leader on the pitch and i don''t think Russell Martin is a big enough character although he does try.

Unless Hughton has confidence and faith in a strong defence he is always going to be a defensive manager and be reluctant to take a game to other teams by pushing and attacking.

The best form of defense is attack!

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[quote user="Its Character Forming"]

 

Well the Stoke game that I watched was a comprehensively good performance, away at a place that is notoriously hard.  We could easily have won by more goals there and probably should have.  If anyone who watched it thinks it was "scraping a win" then they''re just on a different planet to me.

 

Also I notice a lack of suggestions for a different formation that could bring more out of our players... except people bleating about 2 up front which would be a recipe for disaster against West Ham''s 6 in midfield.

 

 

[/quote]

yes, lets just keep trotting out the same formation and way of playing thats seen us win 6 games in 2013 (its now November), 2 wins out of 10 this season, and currently sees us in the relegation zone?!.....whatever the oppositite saying of "if it aint broke dont fix it"is...then this is a time for it.

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If you think the Stoke game qualifies as a good performance I feel vey sad for you, you really should get out more. Good result yes meh performance

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[quote user="Vanwink"]vlad666  It would be great to see a winger that can actually go past a fullback, rather than having to check and cut inside or pass, they`re a pretty rare breed though.  I do see Olsson having that ability and pace, would be interesting to see him playing more of a midfield role.  [/quote]

 

I agree mate. It''s just so frustrating when a promising attack breaks down because of a lack of pace. Snodgrass against Gibbs (Arsenal) the difference in pace was frightening. At times Snodgrass had five yards and he still got caught.

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Yes, well- almost. I believe persisting with the 4-3-3 that impressed in recent weeks will yield dividends. We''re a couple more CMs away from having a suitable squad for it IMO, but we should be alright if Johnson focuses on the basics

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Exactly KG

That said he doesn''t seem great at finding space, but when he does nobody spots him.

Re. Snoddy, i could out run him......seriously. I think he would be worth a try in the hole where he wouldn''t need as much pace.

Im a hoots believer, but any manager should imho when building a team buy players he knows/thinks can fit in to the system he wants to use. If they can''t play in that system hes fcukd up when recruiting. That may well be the case with some of the new lads, RVW particularly.

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I''d agree Snoddy may be worth a go in the hole but can''t agree re CH.

I wouldn''t mind if he tinkered with something and it didn''t work, or even try things in a game like the Man City one and come unstuck and get hammered. Unfortunately he does nothing, Plan A is plan A isn''t working try plan A.

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So you, ''clarkey'', at 41 years of age (going by your username) think you could outrun a strong, athletic professional sportsman aged 26 and in his prime?

That is single handedly the most hilarious thing I''ve read on here in a long time. Robert Snodgrass might not be renowned for his pace but his cardiovascular capacity will far outstrip yours or mine, and in a footrace he would make any of us look ridiculous over more than a few metres.

I think you underestimate how fit professional footballers actually are. You probably thought Grant Holt was fat as well.

This post for me encapsulates the delusion of a lot of posters on here with respect to their supposed knowledge of football. Luckily for ''clarkey''s sake, a sound point is made with respect to managers buying players to fit the system they want to play.

Unfortunately it''s a blindingly obvious point and Hughton has done this, and RvW is playing a hell of a lot better than your average football fan thinks. His movement and the way he pulls defenders around is sublime.

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KeelansGlove wrote the following post at 08/11/2013 5:52 PM:

I''d agree Snoddy may be worth a go in the hole but can''t agree re CH.

I wouldn''t mind if he tinkered with something and it didn''t work, or even try things in a game like the Man City one and come unstuck and get hammered. Unfortunately he does nothing, Plan A is plan A isn''t working try plan A.

--------------------------

The problem I have is that I read posts like these (although usually more insulting & profane than yours), & then I read someone like P J Fry, or Lavanche, or ParmaHgm, who have completely opposite views.

It''s all very confusing.

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