Will Hughton-outers concede...

[Bill 1,788]

or in realitythere are those who are positive about the club and want the bestand those who are negative and are happy with fourth or fifth besthappy that despite all the apologist guff about giving Hughton time as he is sorting out the defence we have conceded more at this stage than we had during the past two seasons, we are not scoring despite new strikers coming in and the football for most of the time is erratic to say the least the league table doesn''t lie, nor does the evidence of our eyes ... especially when watching the goal celebrations yesterday after the third goalthe club previously spoke of continuous improvement, that is clealy not happening at the moment as far as the team are concerned and realistically has not been happening for the best part of a yearat some stage someone has to taken responsibility for this failure, hopefully that will be sooner rather than later

[morty 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]I know you''ll dismiss this as splitting hairs, Morty, but just because someone has a bit of a pessimistic feeling about CH does not make them a "person who is negative" which is what you wrote. Same with optimistic/positive.

I''d rather describe myself as someone who is sceptical about the Hughton régime . I''m not convinced that he''s the best man for the job, and I''ll reiterate that it''ll take a good deal more than 45 mins for me to be convinced otherwise.

If it makes you feel any better, OK ,I''ll agree that there may have been some actions by CH that were at least instrumental in the 2nd half improvement, but frankly, I''d rather give full credit to the team who collectivelypulled themselves up by their bootlaces and took advantage of the slice of fortune they had. Not always easy to do.[/quote]Yes it is splitting hairs, and I don''t need anything to make me feel better.And I''m not looking for any kind of ridiculous "I told you so" either. I''ll leave such silly games to others who place more importance on being proved right, than actually, genuinely wanting the best for their team.I simply stated that I doubt yesterdays game would have swung anyone into the other camp.And I have stated in other threads that I really can''t understand people who can''t just be happy that we have won.

[Katie Borkins 1]

Now I don''t really consider myself a "Hughton" outer, if that''s how you want to spell his name.  I do think the first half yesterday gave all his critics a barrel load of ammo, and I reckon the second half did the same for his supporters.  Damned if I know why the second half was so much better than the first half, but I suppose you can either say "he turned it round" or "the players turned it round" and we''ll never rightly know.

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Likewise, I don''t need you,Morty, or anybody else I''ve never met that I''m either a "positive" or "negative" person. You do not know the first thing about me. My view on Chris Hughton is irrelevant to that.

Where I will agree is that probably yesterday''s match was inconclusive as to people with strong Hughton views either way. And that a "I told you so" is stupidity at it''s strongest.

To be fair, I''ve not read every thread since last night in full, but I''ve yet to come across anyone who is unhappy that we won.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Likewise, I don''t need you,Morty, or anybody else I''ve never met that I''m either a "positive" or "negative" person. You do not know the first thing about me. My view on Chris Hughton is irrelevant to that.

Where I will agree is that probably yesterday''s match was inconclusive as to people with strong Hughton views either way. And that a "I told you so" is stupidity at it''s strongest.

To be fair, I''ve not read every thread since last night in full, but I''ve yet to come across anyone who is unhappy that we won.[/quote]The "inconclusive point was the one I was trying to make.And yes there were folks who plainly were more irked at being proven wrong somehow, rather than just be happy we won.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

[quote user="Bor Bor Bor"]

Now I don''t really consider myself a "Hughton" outer, if that''s how you want to spell his name.  .

 

[/quote]

Not so much me wanting to spell Chris''s name HUGHTON, Bor.

More to do with his parents, the registrar in whatever part of London he was born, and the priest who Christened him.

Best address your views to them......

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Well, I''ll just have to take your word for that, Morty. Mainly, because I really cannot be @rsed to spend my Sunday trawling through every thread checking.

All I can say is that everyone I spent last evening in the pub seemed pretty pleased at a 3-1 victory.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

[quote user="City1st"]or in realitythere are those who are positive about the club and want the bestand those who are negative and are happy with fourth or fifth besthappy that despite all the apologist guff about giving Hughton time as he is sorting out the defence we have conceded more at this stage than we had during the past two seasons, we are not scoring despite new strikers coming in and the football for most of the time is erratic to say the least the league table doesn''t lie, nor does the evidence of our eyes ... especially when watching the goal celebrations yesterday after the third goalthe club previously spoke of continuous improvement, that is clealy not happening at the moment as far as the team are concerned and realistically has not been happening for the best part of a yearat some stage someone has to taken responsibility for this failure, hopefully that will be sooner rather than later

[/quote]

 

I like your reality City1st as long as it''s applied evenly. "The league table doesn''t lie" Is that up for debate or is it a given?

 

These type of threads are divisive just like the ones last weekend calling individuals out to run their noses in a 0-7 defeat. As if they wouldn''t be hurting enough already some wanted to somehow take some perverted enjoyment out of it and make others misery even greater.

 

This forum would be extremely boring if everyone had the same view. I can live quite happily along side those with a different view to mine. Where I get upset is when posters make up stuff or manipulate stats to promote their point of view or discredit others. There is a lot of that going on and I would say that if a poster resorts to that then they do want to view everything in a negative or positive light. What say you Reggie? 

 

 

[morty 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Well, I''ll just have to take your word for that, Morty. Mainly, because I really cannot be @rsed to spend my Sunday trawling through every thread checking.

All I can say is that everyone I spent last evening in the pub seemed pretty pleased at a 3-1 victory.[/quote]As every proper fan should be, not moping around a forum, desperately trying to pick negatives in a very much needed win.[Y]

[chicken 0]

Wow, well at least I am different than.

I never wanted Hughton out as a person. He is a very nice chap, is very good with the younger players and clearly has the ability to draw in a better quality of player.

However, as said elsewhere, I was growing concerned that the players were losing confidence. Confidence is a tricky sort of thing in that it can slide away and there is a sort of point of no return where the players have lost confidence in themselves as individuals, each other and then the coaching staff.

I was concerned at what point we were at after the Man City capitulation. And as Russ said after the game, it was the first time we have seen a Norwich side give up so obviously for a very long time.

First half I think it is fair to say that you could see the hang over from the Man City game. If West Ham hadn''t of been so poor themselves we could have been behind by more. Credit to the chaps though, they dug in and held out until half time.

Hughton obviously said something at half time to get them to turn it around. The highlights showed he was visibly pissed off before half time.

In the end it was a comfortable win.

Hughton deserves to be given the opportunity that he can get the team to perform again and get a result in the next couple of games.

The only thing that really concerns me from the match was that Fer single handedly created the best chance in open play of the game.

That has to improve.

If asked my opinion of how to improve I would say to drop Elmander and give Becchio a go. Elmander was the poorest player on the pitch yesterday, in the first half Hooper was closing down but Elmander wasn''t making the effort to help close down the players options in marking the next nearest defender.

Snodgrass was yelling at him constantly, as was Howson and Hooper. I feel that Becchio could hardly do any worse.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

What I say, Nige is that you are talking in bl**dy riddles.

If you have an issue , can you please phrase it in the form of a straight statement or question, rather than going round the flippin'' houses ???!

[Bill 1,788]

Mortyyou really must stop making up stuff to try and defend your positionI have not read  (and you have given any evidence ) of anyone who is irked or upset about yesterday''s win.likewise silly emotive stuff about fans "moping around a forum " ....... or are we to have a forum where a win stops all comment other than blind adoration ?the problems being discussed existed before the game, were evident during the game and still exist todayso why not get your head out of your own (or Hughton''s) backside and continue to engage in the various debates rather than whinging about how a forum shouldn''t behave ........................................... as a forum

[morty 0]

Lol, I long stopped even reading your posts City 1st.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="morty"]I don''t expect anyone to concede anything frankly. It was a game of two halves, the result count more than the performance (depending on your opinion)People who are negative will point to the first half, people looking for positives will point to the second.[/quote]

I do wish people would stop spouting this positive/ negative people twaddle. Frankly I expect a better use of adjective from you, Morty.

As others have said, we all wish the best for NCFC, but just have different view as to how it can be attained. Just because we don''t agree with all things Chris Hughton does not make us" negative people". Any more than those who''ve had their heads turned by thirty odd minutes in the second half last evening are "positive people "[/quote]Twaddle? I think its pretty obvious that this forum has fallen into two distinct camps, people who are positive about Chris Hughton, and people are negative. And I doubt the game yesterday would make anyone take an opposite stance to what they held before.Seems to me though that some people, rather than concede that we got a good result, and just be happy for their team winning, would rather hide behind phrases like "we got lucky" and "I only want the best for Norwich City" rather than actually give the team and the manager a bit of credit.[/quote]Two distinct camps always appear when things go wrong Morty, and it happens on all football message boards.Yesterday''s first half showing was abysmal. Most having their half time cuppa must have thought they could hear Mr McNally licking down the envelope containing the manager''s P45. It was dreadful and West Ham should have had the game sewn up by then. Even the second half started as badly the first half had finished but to be fair after the penalty there was only going to one winner.Quite why they couldn''t have flown out of the traps from minute one as the even tenser team did against West Brom last season is a mystery. No wonder player power conspiracies surfaced yesterdayOf course people generally are pleased we won but one decent 40-odd mins showing against West Ham doesn''t hide the fact that the manager has to do a lot more to win over a lot of supporters. If even uber-positive LDC was wavering after the Old Trafford surrender then we''re a long way from being out of the woods just yet. A knee-jerk '' well that''s got us out of the mire '' reaction to yesterday''s result is very short-sighted indeed.

[clarkey1972 0]

[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]What Hughton did at half time was to push the back 4 up the pitch 5-10 yards and drop the front 2 a little deeper squeezing the space their midfield where enjoying in the first half and getting us a foothold in the game. It was a subtle change but it had a big impact on the outcome of the game.

Credit where it''s due.[/quote]

Totally agree. But why wait 40 mins to do this?

Could have been out of sight by half time, whu that is.

Im pro houghton but at half time yesterday i was starting to drop my head a little.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

I''ve no idea Clarkey, but better late than never I guess.

At half time yesterday I honestly couldn''t see anything other than a West Ham win followed by a Hughton sacking, it was that cr@p that there were some around me joking that McNally might as well sack him there and then and let Adams take over 2nd half. I think one or two were serious...

But you have to give him credit for changing it, we started to get a grip in the game and once Hooper had nearly ripped the net off the confidence literally flowed back into the players, and fans.

It remains to be seen whether that can be maintained, I personally hope that it can. There''s no point flogging a dead horse but there''s a lot to be said for continuity.

[nutty nigel 7,513]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="morty"]I don''t expect anyone to concede anything frankly. It was a game of two halves, the result count more than the performance (depending on your opinion)People who are negative will point to the first half, people looking for positives will point to the second.[/quote]

I do wish people would stop spouting this positive/ negative people twaddle. Frankly I expect a better use of adjective from you, Morty.

As others have said, we all wish the best for NCFC, but just have different view as to how it can be attained. Just because we don''t agree with all things Chris Hughton does not make us" negative people". Any more than those who''ve had their heads turned by thirty odd minutes in the second half last evening are "positive people "[/quote]Twaddle? I think its pretty obvious that this forum has fallen into two distinct camps, people who are positive about Chris Hughton, and people are negative. And I doubt the game yesterday would make anyone take an opposite stance to what they held before.Seems to me though that some people, rather than concede that we got a good result, and just be happy for their team winning, would rather hide behind phrases like "we got lucky" and "I only want the best for Norwich City" rather than actually give the team and the manager a bit of credit.[/quote]Two distinct camps always appear when things go wrong Morty, and it happens on all football message boards.Yesterday''s first half showing was abysmal. Most having their half time cuppa must have thought they could hear Mr McNally licking down the envelope containing the manager''s P45. It was dreadful and West Ham should have had the game sewn up by then. Even the second half started as badly the first half had finished but to be fair after the penalty there was only going to one winner.Quite why they couldn''t have flown out of the traps from minute one as the even tenser team did against West Brom last season is a mystery. No wonder player power conspiracies surfaced yesterdayOf course people generally are pleased we won but one decent 40-odd mins showing against West Ham doesn''t hide the fact that the manager has to do a lot more to win over a lot of supporters. If even uber-positive LDC was wavering after the Old Trafford surrender then we''re a long way from being out of the woods just yet. A knee-jerk '' well that''s got us out of the mire '' reaction to yesterday''s result is very short-sighted indeed.

[/quote]

 

Thing is Smithy that I doubt anyone would change their mind after a half of football either way. Especially the board who I feel must have already made some sort of decision and I doubt if the first or second half performance would have been enough to make them change their minds. So I wouldn''t be surprised at anything which may happen before our next game. But if Hughton''s still in charge I wouldn''t have thought it was on that second half alone just like if he goes it won''t be because of the first half.

 

 

[king canary 7,580]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="morty"][quote user="Reggie Strayshun"][quote user="morty"]I don''t expect anyone to concede anything frankly. It was a game of two halves, the result count more than the performance (depending on your opinion)People who are negative will point to the first half, people looking for positives will point to the second.[/quote]

I do wish people would stop spouting this positive/ negative people twaddle. Frankly I expect a better use of adjective from you, Morty.

As others have said, we all wish the best for NCFC, but just have different view as to how it can be attained. Just because we don''t agree with all things Chris Hughton does not make us" negative people". Any more than those who''ve had their heads turned by thirty odd minutes in the second half last evening are "positive people "[/quote]Twaddle? I think its pretty obvious that this forum has fallen into two distinct camps, people who are positive about Chris Hughton, and people are negative. And I doubt the game yesterday would make anyone take an opposite stance to what they held before.Seems to me though that some people, rather than concede that we got a good result, and just be happy for their team winning, would rather hide behind phrases like "we got lucky" and "I only want the best for Norwich City" rather than actually give the team and the manager a bit of credit.[/quote]Two distinct camps always appear when things go wrong Morty, and it happens on all football message boards.Yesterday''s first half showing was abysmal. Most having their half time cuppa must have thought they could hear Mr McNally licking down the envelope containing the manager''s P45. It was dreadful and West Ham should have had the game sewn up by then. Even the second half started as badly the first half had finished but to be fair after the penalty there was only going to one winner.Quite why they couldn''t have flown out of the traps from minute one as the even tenser team did against West Brom last season is a mystery. No wonder player power conspiracies surfaced yesterdayOf course people generally are pleased we won but one decent 40-odd mins showing against West Ham doesn''t hide the fact that the manager has to do a lot more to win over a lot of supporters. If even uber-positive LDC was wavering after the Old Trafford surrender then we''re a long way from being out of the woods just yet. A knee-jerk '' well that''s got us out of the mire '' reaction to yesterday''s result is very short-sighted indeed.

[/quote]

 

Thing is Smithy that I doubt anyone would change their mind after a half of football either way. Especially the board who I feel must have already made some sort of decision and I doubt if the first or second half performance would have been enough to make them change their minds. So I wouldn''t be surprised at anything which may happen before our next game. But if Hughton''s still in charge I wouldn''t have thought it was on that second half alone just like if he goes it won''t be because of the first half.

 

 

[/quote]So you think the board had made a decision pre game and nothing during it would have changed that?

[nutty nigel 7,513]

No. I think the board have an idea as to whether they still see the manager as the best man to take the club forward or whether they think a replacement would be the best man to take the club forward. I doubt if a half of football would be enough to change that either way.

 

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

As a Hughton outer I will admit that yesterday''s second half shows that he has not "lost" the dressing room in the sense of there being some kind of mutiny. That said interesting Fer picked out Bassong after his goal. I have never really thought he had list the dressing room though as Hughton is not the type of bloke that players would dislike.

In terms of other points from yesterday I said beforehand that beating West Ham would not mean he is suddenly good enough and I stand by thst. I also think he got the starting line up/tactics wrong and the second half improvement was sparked more by a pen out of nothing and a great free kick from Snoddy than anything the management team did. After they went in the confidence improved hugely and we started playing well.

So I remain in the out camp. It will take a good run over a prolonged period with Hughton making more right calls than wrong ones for me to change my views. I have had however forgotten how much I enjoy seeing my team win over the last few weeks so yesterday has out a bit of a spring in my step and I shall try not to bang on about Hughton so much and will see what transpires.

[clarkey1972 0]

If houghton is still here come January, it will be interesting to see if the board allow him to spend any more money.

Might give an idea as to long term plans

[clarkey1972 0]

Hughton, why does the bloody ipad refuse to accept hughton as the spelling and auto correct to houghton.

[basil brush 0]

I still want Hughton out as I cannot see how he is going to change his whole philosophy which generally hasn''t worked.

The first hour of yesterdays game was a woeful performance and I couldn''t see us getting anything other than a new manager from it. It was unacceptable. The penalty seemed to give us confidence we haven''t had for a long time and we got the result.

We''ve have got the players to easily stay in this league, but Hughton is still not the man to take this club forward in my view. I want the best for NCFC and if somehow Hughton can turn it around I''ll be happy, but I just cannot see it. Remember West Ham aren''t a great side, so we should keep our feet on the ground despite an extremely welcome three points.

[Bill 1,788]

[quote user="clarkey1972"]If houghton is still here come January, it will be interesting to see if the board allow him to spend any more money.

Might give an idea as to long term plans[/quote]

''allow him to spend '' !players are targeted by the scouting network and brought via board agreement - McNally conducts the final contract negotiations................. or would you have us believe that Hughton, whilst still at Birmingham, was advising City to buy Snodgrass, or that he had been targeting Butterfield before he knew he was joining us ?

[clarkey1972 0]

So your suggesting the board decide who''s coming in then and the manager has no input?

Tosh

[Tumbleweed 106]

I loved watching us get that win on Sat, but I haven''t changed my mind one iota about CH yet. I think Jim Smith and City 1st put it the best, maybe with a nod to Mr Brownstone although I didn''t see too much evidence of us changing tactics at half time.

 

Real mixed feelings, ecstatic that we won, but still hugely concerned about CH as the long term option. Since we''ve had 49 games of largely unremarkable stuff it will take a fair few decent performances to change my mind, which I am prepared to do if the evidence supports it. But on Sat we got lucky, that changed the game and we looked more like the side we are capabl;e of being. The last 20 mins we looked like a completely different team- now why can''t CH get that sort of performance from the off on a regualr basis? We know we can do it, that makes it all so frustrating.

 

Frankly I was staggered how poor we were in that first half. A reaction from the Man City game? Really? Not sure we want those sorts of reactions. West Ham must have had 60-70% possession, and they''re not exactly Arsenal or Chelsea or Spurs. So much space, so much time and we were strung out all over the pitch, two wingers way out wide on the touchline leaving gaping holes in the middle and players not pressing enough. A midfield sitting almost on top on the central defence and ceding territory willingly. Snods not bothering to try and track Rat back before the cross for the goal. Those are examples of things I would like to see fixed, not having to rely on a usually reliable goalie having a howler to let us back in.

[morty 0]

So if we didn''t change our tactics at half time, was it just West Ham who changed theirs to "can''t be ar$ed"?Would it pain you to maybe even give CH a tiny amount of credit?

[BOO 0]

Tumbleweed

We were totally overrun in the first half, they were just walking through the mid field and we had no answer. It was shocking.

[SeattleCanary 0]

I think its been widely discussed that the penalty was what lifted our performance. Before that, and the whole first half, I couldn''t see where or who a goal was coming from. I still believe confidence should be instilled by the leader, the manager. Its his job to give players their jobs to do, and push them positively when things are not going their way. Not to stand quietly on the sidelines, or praise the opposition.

To be fair to CH though when things were/have been going bad its been a lot down to the players attitude at times, hopefully we see that improve now along with the whole approach. I want CH to succeed as it means NCFC will be doing well too, but for now he has a lot to prove over the next few games to convince me he has the nous and the ability to move us forward.

Its funny reading that West Ham forum how they see the game (as fans do) completely differently and thought we were the worst team in the league apart from Palarse. We still only scored one goal from open play, and hopefully we can start to show more creative intent, as we can''t always rely on set pieces and hoping for penalties every game.

All in all great win. CH needs to kick on and make sure that 2nd half application is repeated from now on.

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]Of course there are some who want Hughton out whatever, Lakey, but it would be an absolute travesty if you were suggesting that all of us who have had severe reservations over the last few weeks/months are thus minded.

Of course I''m happy with the result. Who wouldn''t be ? But, as others have said, it was only one win against a pretty limited WHU side, and our first 45 was absolutely DIRE.

I have been consistent in saying that CH should be given till end Nov to show some evidence that he''s turning it round, and I stick to that. Welcome as last night was, and it may be that he''s been woken up to the seriousness of the plight, and the need for a different approach,but it''ll need a lot more of what we saw in the second half last night to convince me that, long term, he''s the correct man for the job.[/quote]

Hughton was a one season Manager hired to do a specific job which he did. He should have been fired at the end of the season in the same way that the Southampton Manager was moved along. That way we might have been in the same position today. If we want to get out of the bottom ten Hughton has to go and McNally has to find a replacement before the end of November as you say. I for one do not want to see us have a lucky win because one of our players chooses to fall over or another rolls about the fied in supposed agony