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Monty13

Is it time Hoolahan was back in the side?

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Does anyone else feel like it is time Wes was given a chance back in the starting 11?

 

I am an unashamed fan of Wes (although I’ll openly admit he is not a perfect player) and I know he divides City supporters more than most players, but I can''t help feeling that he might have helped unlock some of the defences we have been struggling against.

 

Like last season he has been shunned at the start of this and I can’t help but feel, once again, his return to the starting lineup might coincide with an upturn in our fortunes.

 

Elmander does not appear to have Wes’s ability with the ball and is offering no more of a goal threat than the little man gets derided for. (I’d just like to point out I’m not writing off Elmander as a player, but in that position he doesn’t look an improvement on Wes so far)

 

We failed in our bid to upgrade on him so why has he been sidelined post a pretty decent Everton performance? He got a 20 min run on the wing against Hull and that’s it, didn’t even make the bench against Spurs.

 

He is still the only proven PL player in that position we have, and until we buy someone of greater quality, imo he needs to be given back his chance in the starting 11? What do others feel?

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No, he''s not physically strong enough to hold off challenges by Premier League defenders, and that''s why he spends lots of time turning in circles and losing momentum for attacks, or giving the ball away by playing it too early when trying to keep the momentum going.His goals and assists record in the PL should tell you all you need to know about his effectiveness at the top level.

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"His goals and assists record in the PL should tell you all you need to know about his effectiveness at the top level"
Starts: 54
Sub: 14
Goals: 7
Assists: 10
Doesn''t look too shoddy?

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[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]"His goals and assists record in the PL should tell you all you need to know about his effectiveness at the top level"
Starts: 54
Sub: 14
Goals: 7
Assists: 10
Doesn''t look too shoddy?
[/quote]4 goals and 5 assists for an attacking midfielder in the PL is pretty shoddy.  He''s certainly not the answer to the problems with the team at the moment - more of an elastoplast solution when something more radical is required.

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Assist stats are hugely misleading, just because he doesn''t supply the final ball it doesn''t mean he hasn''t been heavily involved in the build up. Wes has that ability to unlock a defence, an ability that we might have seen today if we hadn''t had to use a sub for Bassong''s injury.

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I think Wes is benefitting from the age old "not in the side, the side''s playing badly, so therefore he must be better than he is" syndrome.See also: David Fox.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]"His goals and assists record in the PL should tell you all you need to know about his effectiveness at the top level"
Starts: 54
Sub: 14
Goals: 7
Assists: 10
Doesn''t look too shoddy?
[/quote]4 goals and 5 assists for an attacking midfielder in the PL is pretty shoddy.  He''s certainly not the answer to the problems with the team at the moment - more of an elastoplast solution when something more radical is required.[/quote]
Not sure where you are getting those numbers from, but whatever the correct numbers are.... it would be fair to point out that he started 28 league games last season, and 25 league games the season before, so to apply it relatively to other players in his position it would be fair to calculate on a pro-rata basis. 
In the Lambert season he managed 7 assists and 5 goals from 25 starts. 
That''s the equivalent of 11 assists and 8 goals in 38 starts...... which is clearly as good as almost anybody in the league. If anything he is just another victim of Hughton''s tactics, because the statistics show that he was very productive in the Lambert season. 
Add Holt and Pilkington to the list of players who were more effective under Lambert too.

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I think you''re being a tad harsh, Mr C. He is not always the answer, but on his day he can cause the opposition more problems than anyone else.

It''s probably one of the major areas of concern for me - Hughton needs to be able to see when it''s not working (for Wes or anyone else) & bring on subs earlier if needs be. Although he is showing signs of doing so (Redmond had clearly been worked out by Villa, so 60 minutes was about right).

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I agree that assist stats are hugely misleading; I''d love to see Hoolahans stats on passes to the assist maker, but unfortunately don’t think any unpaid service would provide that.

 

I don’t think his stats have been particularly terrible in context with the performance of the team. A combined 10 goals and assists (PL) in his first season put him in some pretty good company. Last season we didn’t even have a scorer in double figures so he was also bound to suffer, when your top scorer gets 8, 3 doesn’t look comparatively that bad.

 

“He''s certainly not the answer to the problems with the team at the moment - more of an elastoplast solution when something more radical is required.”

 

I totally agree, but without an open transfer window surely the elastoplast is the only option?

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Chops has a point that his direct record isn''t fantastic (but i do think it''s misleading somewhat). He does also sometimes slow down our attacks - but they''re hardly flowing at pace at the moment anyway - and Hoolahan does have that ability to create problems where other''s cant.
He also, more importantly, actually bloody moves and asks for the ball. The movement in the final third today was beyond abysmal. RVW tried but clearly none of our players know how he want''s to receive the ball. If they do then they''re not bloody doing it.

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Re movement, did you see Hooper run all the way back into our half to receive the ball from a CB before running all the way back to his position at one point? summed up the lack of midfield movement in one action.

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So as an indication of my own dismal ability, I was calling for him to be introduced on the match thread today precisely because he gives us "something different" and is a good option for 20-30 minutes when trying to break a solid defence.  I was reminded that we had already made our three subs...I wouldn''t start him, but he can have a role off the bench.

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[quote user="Mister Chops"]So as an indication of my own dismal ability, I was calling for him to be introduced on the match thread today precisely because he gives us "something different" and is a good option for 20-30 minutes when trying to break a solid defence.  I was reminded that we had already made our three subs...I wouldn''t start him, but he can have a role off the bench.[/quote]
He seemed to have an instant telepathic relationship with Hooper in pre-season, and in Van Persie II and the Swedish Grant Holt don''t start scoring goals soon then we may find that a Hoolahan-Hooper relationship is our means of survival this season. 

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Perhaps RVW could learn a thing or two from Hoopers ventures to get the ball from the CB. A modern day premiership forward should move more to collect the ball. Especially in a lower table team.

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The midfield has a balance to it. A couple of holding players in the centre: two from Fer, Howson, Bradley J and Tettey. And the creativity comes from the two wingers: Two from Snoddy, Redmond, Pilks and Benno (when fit). Relying on the wingers for creativity, especially when we''re playing a left footer on the right and a right footer on the left, so that they have to cut back before crossing, which changes the angle of the cross to favour the centre back, does of course mean that we need to be playing a big robust target man to make something of those crosses. Holty, or Morrison maybe.

On the other hand, if we were the kind of team that has no target man, but only a "modern" forward always looking to make intelligent runs behind defenders, and pull them out of position, someone like RVW or Hooper, then it would be crazy to play with a midfield whose creativity lies on the wings. One would expect that to lead to a lot of possession, a lot of crosses, and no end product. If we were that kind of team, we''d need to have a creative midfield playmaker, someone who would see the runs and play the ball in behind the defenders. Someone like Wes.

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How right you are blind Fredie could see there was great need for someone who could engineer openings for the multi million pound so called goal scorers. Wes is the man the proven creator he did it for our cut price sadly departed hero and given the opportunity he will repeat for this seasons front men.

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I think Wes has had his time unfortunately. Dont get me wrong, i still think he can play a part but it would be a bit part.

As an AM, your main job is to create. You need to be creating probably at least 3-5 goal scoring chances per game. Out of these chances i would expect the striker to score 1.

Not only creating chances is the AM game. He also needs to pop up and score a few himself. Making late runs into the box after playing in a winger instead of playing the striker in after missing his run. This was evident vs Spurs with Erikson.

Goal scoring is where i think Hoolahan is starting to lack more and more. He would need to score between 7-12 per season to justify his selection imo. Im not usually a stat man (thats for Yanks) but if you see what other teams AM are bringing then i think you would agree.

Oscar has 2 in 4.

Sigurdsson has 2 in 2.

Ben Arfa has 2 in 5.

Ramsey has 2 in 4.

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