HUGHTON SACKED.

[......and Smith must score. 1,342]

[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="Schlong Connery"]

Yep, he''s one of the few who actually has a job probably and hasn''t the time to sit on here day in day out pontificating.

[/quote]

Who the hell works on a Sunday apart from carvery chefs, shelf stackers and vicars? 

[/quote]Quite a few.Try dialling 999 and an ambulance or fire engine will probably turn up or, if you''re really lucky, you might even see a policeman. Should you unfortunately end up in hospital A & E there''s usually someone floating about there but if you''re really unlucky and it''s too late undertakers tend not to be not too fussed when they turn out...[;)]

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

[quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]So interesting to see certain board bully boys subtly adjusting their position on Chris Hughton as they sense the wind is changing. [/quote]

Morty seems to have gone missing. 

[/quote]

After pontificating on this obvious absentia of a prolific pontificator of succinct sarcastic verbage I have come to the inevitable conclusion that......he can''t be arsed. I''m sure I''m correct.

[/quote]

Perhaps he is holding out to see if Stoke is the start of a ten game unbeaten run, so that he can be the very last person able to say "I told you so". 

Sometimes straws have to be clutched. 

[/quote]

Morty works in the construction and engineering business and he flew to Angola in West Africa for 3 weeks on 17th Sept. This he does on a regular basis.

[/quote]

He posted yesterday

[William Darby 0]

[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="Schlong Connery"]

Yep, he''s one of the few who actually has a job probably and hasn''t the time to sit on here day in day out pontificating.

[/quote]

Who the hell works on a Sunday apart from carvery chefs, shelf stackers and vicars? 

[/quote]Quite a few.Try dialling 999 and an ambulance or fire engine will probably turn up or, if you''re really lucky, you might even see a policeman. Should you unfortunately end up in hospital A & E there''s usually someone floating about there but if you''re really unlucky and it''s too late undertakers tend not to be not too fussed when they turn out...[;)][/quote]

They can''t be fussy, it''s a dying trade.

[4th floor 4]

[quote user="Macey"][quote user="JonnyH"][quote user="bringbackchippy"]Apparently had an extraordinary emergency meeting last night minus hughton. I heard what l posted but not made it official. Have to wait and see[/quote]A narrow loss where we were perhaps unlucky not to get a draw and they''re having some sort of EGM to discuss the manager''s future? I''m not doubting what you''re saying, but if true this smacks of fear and panic rather than anything level-headed. Especially so given we''re only five games into the season and one under par.[/quote]

So you would just look at the last 5 games and not the last 26 or so? :/

[/quote]If the board is taking the previous half-season into account then it might have been better to have changed the manager in the summer. After say 10-15 games, perhaps there''s justification to change; less than that and the question of "Why not last summer?" is a valid one.

[Tony Cottee Woz Ere . . . 0]

Well let''s just pray morty isn''t involved in some serious work based incident that renders his typing hands unusable for the foreseeable future. That would be tragic.

[4th floor 4]

[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]Jonny H,Perhaps McNally doesnt buy into this 10 game wait and see approach and perhaps he views the 5 games that we have played this season as a continuation of our relegation form throughout 2013. [/quote]See my reply to Macey above. In addition, considering last season''s results were against a background of a much more modest transfer spend, I think we''d be better off seeing if the new signings can gel before pulling the trigger. There seems little point giving a manager £25m to spend and then sacking him before allowing enough time to see whether that sum has been well utilised.

[TIL 1010 4,738]

[quote user="Curious Orange"][quote user="TIL 1010"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="RUDOLPH HUCKER"]So interesting to see certain board bully boys subtly adjusting their position on Chris Hughton as they sense the wind is changing. [/quote]

Morty seems to have gone missing. 

[/quote]

After pontificating on this obvious absentia of a prolific pontificator of succinct sarcastic verbage I have come to the inevitable conclusion that......he can''t be arsed. I''m sure I''m correct.

[/quote]

Perhaps he is holding out to see if Stoke is the start of a ten game unbeaten run, so that he can be the very last person able to say "I told you so". 

Sometimes straws have to be clutched. 

[/quote]

Morty works in the construction and engineering business and he flew to Angola in West Africa for 3 weeks on 17th Sept. This he does on a regular basis.

[/quote] He posted yesterday[/quote]

Indeed he did but obviously work restricts his ability to post as opposed to being home and having lots more time on his hands to spend on here.

[T 190]

Good that some people are trying to address the points made  rather than discuss petty typos. The internet gives the opportunity for people to express opinions on things that they know nothing about. In fact people most people know so little that they do not even realise that they no nothing about the subject. I keep to those matters where I''m professionally educated, qualified and trained to discuss and therefore ignore most on this board. I find Ricardo has a mature perspective and enjoy reading the news, and the views of parma, lavance and bethnel yellow but just scan through most of the rest as being unqualiifed, untrained nonsense. I''m saying objectively CH has out performed the odds and is a respected coach by his peers and that most views on here are very short term and ignore the financial reality. I think it is perfectly valid for people to have a subjective opinion on the style of play as that is a personal preference or say what they would do but to suggest that they kow more than CH is naive in the extreme.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="jossacklandsspunkybackpack"]So by your reasoning T, we were wrong to call for roeder''s head, or grant''s, or any other manager ever. Basically as fans we have no right to question a manager unless we have managed at a similar level. I get it now. I think. Although i could be wrong, i did grow up in norfolk after all.[/quote]

 

That is indeed T''s argument, the falsity of which I exposed a few weeks ago with an example drawn from the recent Ashes series. The point he still fails to grasp, despite his overpowering intelligence, is that while amateurs (such as posters here) could not possibly be a professional football (or cricket) manager they can know enough about the particular sport to identify mistakes made by professionals.

[City 2nd 191]

Obviously T is one of those who does not attend matches but sits in his bedsit near to the Uni watching matters pass by on his laptop. Educated indeed - get a life and get out more!

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Unless they were concerned last season (as McNally''s reaction to the WBA result seemed to indicate with his big puffed out cheeks) and said to Hughton ''you get the start of the season to show us improvement''.He managed to achieve the minimum requirements for last season in keeping us up- forget 11th place it was with 1 week left that we survived and this years fixture list doesn''t look like allowing much at the end of the season with all opponents in the final run likely to be fighting for Europe. We are unlikely to see an easier point or three than 10 man Hull all season and the money spent looks like it has improved the squad only on paper and not on the pitch. Greater potential but weaker as a team... I have long thought we had a coach rather than a manager and am starting to wonder if we actually have a scout rather than either.There were a lot of excuses used last season by fans for Hughton''s team but none are valid now and we do not look any more likely to pick up points.What do those who feel CH should be given the next 4 or 5 matches really expect from those games? I expect to go out of the cup to a Watford team who are on fire, pick up a dull point against Stoke and then lose to Chelsea and Arsenal. I expect that pretty much whoever is manager so I see no reason to wait when we could be giving someone a chance to understand the players and try a few things in those games.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

[quote user="Houston Canary"]My mistake, nn.

Sorry for assuming your comment was a dig. Upon further viewing I see it was meant to be light-hearted.

.[/quote]

 

Just saw this Houston.. no worries buddy. Some of the humour regarding gambling is particularly British.

 

 

[T 190]

Both not obvious and wrong.

 

 Purple, I thought you had grasped the point for instance you might have jurer''s decide on points of fact but they would not be allowed to decide on points of law as that requires education and training. My views on these matters have been formed by trainng with a professional sports coach at the top of his trade. I suspected that I did not know what I was not talking about before but now know that without professional training I was not qualified to give an opinion on a sport. I could say what I aethetically liked but was not unable to analyse the sport and give an informed opinion.I''m just suggesting less abuse, more awareness, more reality and some humility.

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

That is indeed T''s argument, the falsity of which I exposed a few weeks ago with an example drawn from the recent Ashes series. The point he still fails to grasp, despite his overpowering intelligence, is that while amateurs (such as posters here) could not possibly be a professional football (or cricket) manager they can know enough about the particular sport to identify mistakes made by professionals.

[/quote]Quite right, I expect that despite his needlessly smug and arrogant Dunning-Kruger inspired rant, he''s failed to realise that being a active participant in something requires a completely different skillset from being a passive one.The obvious analogy being that you don''t need to be a Michelin starred chef to determine whether or not a meal is edible.

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

[quote user="T"]

Both not obvious and wrong.

 

 Purple, I thought you had grasped the point for instance you might have jurer''s decide on points of fact but they would not be allowed to decide on points of law as that requires education and training. My views on these matters have been formed by trainng with a professional sports coach at the top of his trade. I suspected that I did not know what I was not talking about before but now know that without professional training I was not qualified to give an opinion on a sport. I could say what I aethetically liked but was not unable to analyse the sport and give an informed opinion.I''m just suggesting less abuse, more awareness, more reality and some humility.

[/quote]So after implying that people from Norfolk are thick and inbred, and bigging up your credentials in possibly the most smug and un-self aware posts I''ve ever seen on this board, you want "less abuse, more awareness, and some humility". Right-o.

[im spartacus canary 0]

It''s quite funny really a month ago the board bullies would have ganged up on the OP no matter what he''d posted before... Now he is being lauded as some sort of info messiah [:D]

[T 190]

People come on here every day with meaningless smug rants about things they know nothing about. Apparently this is absolutely fine when it is directed at the board or manager but not when it is directed at those ranting . The point has been completely missed as usual as people have a faulty  information perception filter.  I made the same point myself that people are obviously able to make a subjective assessement of their personal preferences and that is fine but that does not mean that people are qualified to say what is wrong and how it could be better. CH is objectively sucessful given his resources so the comparison with other managers is not valid.

[nutty nigel 7,531]

He can be lauded as what he likes but if I lose my five bob he''ll soon see what bullying really is...

 

 

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="T"]  now English is my second language [/quote]

It shows. 

[quote] The study reported on the bbc [/quote]

Well why don''t you share it with us then, so that we can interpret the data and initial source ourselves and give it a critique? 

[quote] and found changing manager had no impact.  [/quote]

So Bryan Gunn would have won us the League One title, achieved a second successive promotion, and then kept us in the Premier League? Or are you talking a load of guff? 

[quote] Football is a lower class sport so attracts a less intelligent group of people than say cricket or rugby. [/quote]

Disgraceful way to look at life. Privilege does not correlate with intelligence and to suggest so is a draconian Victorian-era outlook on life. Football was a working class game when only a select few working class kids were given the luxury of a university education and the upper middle classes could buy one. You actually disgust me. 

[quote] Norfolf is a relatively poor country [/quote]

It is not a country and it is not ''relatively poor'' as a county, it is ''relatively about average'' as a county, in fact the average salary is marginally higher than the national average. Do you even understand what ''relative'' means? And what the hell does wealth have to do with anything?

[quote] so the education standards tend to be lower [/quote]

You really are thick. 

[quote] and also generally the education standards are lower in the UK than other countries. [/quote]

Not for higher education it is not. Have you not seen the list of the world''s 50 best universities? The UK is steaming up the league table. The UEA is a great university and it leads the world in some fields. For an apparently ''educated'' man you don''t sound too well-informed, in fact you should like a complete ignoramus. 

[quote] In addition, as a relatively rural area it is just a fact that the genetic diversity in Norfolk is lower than other areas.[/quote]

Who gives a sh*t about genetic diversity, it means nothing - zilch, and you can''t support any argument to the contrary. 

[quote] Norfolk is parochial. it is the interaction with others which stimulates intellectual development.[/quote] 

You don''t interact much then? 

[quote] Is a long-term average and it is a probability distribution curve so all results are probable in the short-term but over a longer period then clubs perform to their financial average position regardless of manager. [/quote] 

I don''t know if you are being intentionally thick or not, but a ''financial position'' is not fixed. Finances are managed, revenues go up and down, businesses grow and businesses decline. Nottingham Forest were once relatively one of the richest clubs in the world. We are relatively better off than ever before... so answer my question.... if we finished 11th last year, and have seen our debts decrease by £13m, ignoring the £20m increase in TV revenue as all clubs get that, how many league positions should our £13m buy us this season? This is your (flawed) argument, at least try and present something for us to work on. 

[quote] CH is a professionally qualified football coach with lots of experience [/quote] 

So was Roeder, and so is every manager who gets relegated from this league every season. Again, it is a piece of paper. That''s all it is - a qualification is meaningless. I went to uni with people who got 1st''s who were completely unemployable.

[quote] His critics have none as I''ve yet to see anyone on here claim they are professionally qualified .[/quote]   

Well we''d better delete the forum then hadn''t we, if you need a UEFA Pro-License to have permission to talk about football. 

[quote] I have some professional sports coaching qualifications and only then did I have enough knowledge to know how little I knew before. [/quote]   

So after all this we get told that you have a Level 2 certificate in Sports Coaching and managed a Sunday League team. 

[quote] I have worked on the acquistion of a premier league football club with an ex-professional footballer [/quote] 

If that''s true then keep it to yourself you braggart. If that is not true then SEEK HELP FOR YOUR ISSUES NOW. 

[Yellow Shirt 17]

[quote user="T"]

Both not obvious and wrong.

 

 Purple, I thought you had grasped the point for instance you might have jurer''s decide on points of fact but they would not be allowed to decide on points of law as that requires education and training. My views on these matters have been formed by trainng with a professional sports coach at the top of his trade. I suspected that I did not know what I was not talking about before but now know that without professional training I was not qualified to give an opinion on a sport. I could say what I aethetically liked but was not unable to analyse the sport and give an informed opinion.I''m just suggesting less abuse, more awareness, more reality and some humility.

[/quote]Points of Law require a book and debate. Jurers are also required to asses points of law and their relevance to a case. They take advice on these matters.In the case of sports you are even wider of the mark- there is only opinion and personal interpretation in a manager''s use of tactics and the elements of the job that we are commenting on. With the coaching side and sports science we know nothing about how it is carried out at NCFC but we see every match that the side that is down to Hughton''s innovation and decision making is not working on either basic level- results or entertainment.

[Macey 5]

[quote user="JonnyH"]If the board is taking the previous half-season into account then it might have been better to have changed the manager in the summer. After say 10-15 games, perhaps there''s justification to change; less than that and the question of "Why not last summer?" is a valid one.[/quote]

I do understand where you are coming from and I was also willing to give him at least 10 games this season but after seeing how we are performing I am starting to move to the Hughton out side of the fan base and I will give you a few reasons to my thinking.

- The continued poor performances from last season, especially away from home which must be very hard on the amazing away support we take so this is going to effect how many people go to away matches in the future.

- Following on from the away form I am worried if we keep playing so bad away that it is then going to soon start effecting our home form and at the moment our home form has been OK so if this starts to suffer we are in real trouble. If we keep playing like we are in away games it WILL bleed over to our home form no doubt.

- Now if you look at our next 5 games. If Hughton stays and we loose 4 and win one it will be easy for the board to say "well it was Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City bla bla bla" and give him another 5 games or so to see if our form improves. But I would like to think that since the next 5 games are going to be rather testing that it might be the best time to bring a new manager in to get to know the players and get across his new training ideas and bring in the staff he wants without having to much pressure since we have games against three top teams.

- Lastly the tactics/subs etc. Still does not seem to have a plan B, C , D etc when we go behind or are getting out played in certain parts of the pitch. Late substitutions/strange substitutions. Not seeming to have picked a clear penalty taker for the season, all he needed to say at the start of the season is "right RVW is my No1 pen taker and no exceptions! if he is not on the pitch then so and so is No2 etc". Hughton did say he wanted RVW to take it at the weekend but he did not clearly say RVW was my chosen pen taker for the season. This is his quote,"We were all expecting Ricky to take it. Those conversations are very private (over who the designated penalty taker is) but I expected him to take it and if we get one in the future then I would expect him to take it." Just come out and say RVW was our chosen taker for the season and Snoddy should not have taken it from him FFS! earlier in the piece he said sometimes you get players who are very confident and he felt he was going to put it away, I call BS, Snoddy was getting so much stick and he has been most of the season for poor performances that I believe he just wanted to take it to getting some of the stick off his back from the fans.... He done well in the build up to the pen he should have thought of the team and given it straight to Ricky. Oh this point went on a bit to much and I was venting some there! :>

[im spartacus canary 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

He can be lauded as what he likes but if I lose my five bob he''ll soon see what bullying really is...

 

 

[/quote]LOL have a word with your mate city 1st about self depreciating humour [:D]

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

[quote user="T"]People come on here every day with meaningless smug rants about things they know nothing about. Apparently this is absolutely fine when it is directed at the board or manager but not when it is directed at those ranting . The point has been completely missed as usual as people have a faulty  information perception filter.  I made the same point myself that people are obviously able to make a subjective assessement of their personal preferences and that is fine but that does not mean that people are qualified to say what is wrong and how it could be better. CH is objectively sucessful given his resources so the comparison with other managers is not valid.[/quote]You are still having trouble grasping the difference between active and passive participation.You don''t need to be a master composer to tell the difference between a series of consonant notes, and a series of discordant ones. The ability to create music is not the same skillset as the ability to appreciate it.

[PurpleCanary 5,557]

[quote user="T"]

Both not obvious and wrong.

 

 Purple, I thought you had grasped the point for instance you might have jurer''s decide on points of fact but they would not be allowed to decide on points of law as that requires education and training. My views on these matters have been formed by trainng with a professional sports coach at the top of his trade. I suspected that I did not know what I was not talking about before but now know that without professional training I was not qualified to give an opinion on a sport. I could say what I aethetically liked but was not unable to analyse the sport and give an informed opinion.I''m just suggesting less abuse, more awareness, more reality and some humility.

[/quote]

 

I will refrain from asking why I should bother replying when you don''t take this message-board seriously...I grasped your point about the law. I also grasped that it was irrelevant. But it points up the flaw in your thinking, which is that you believe football, in this case, to be a exact science, a binary world with absolute rights and wrongs and decisions that can only be good or bad, and that you need to be a professional to understand its secrets. It is not a science. There is not one way to manage a football club, just as there isn''t one way to conduct Mahler''s 8th or one way to direct King Lear. But I don''t need to be a professional conductor or theatre director to be able to differentiate between good and bad concerts and productions. It might help to hear a professional explain some of the finer nuances, but if the scenery keeps falling down, Lear forgets half his lines, and someone has only cast two sisters instead of three, then I feel comfortable, in my amateurism, marking that down as a dud.

[A Gay Schoolboy 0]

I went to see Mahler''s 8th in Hull and they had too many trombonists, one was on the violin while a virtuoso watched on from the stands until the 2nd movement when they let him on to play the glockenspiel.But who am I to judge if that was the right thing to do.

[Surfbird 1]

Jonny H & T are right.

Last season CH strengthened the defence and greatly improved our goals conceded column. Lamberts clean sheet against us on Saturday was his first in 25 games!

On Saturday we had 66% of the possession and but for some superb saves by their keeper would have won the game. On Saturday''s showing I know which team I would rather be supporting.

The Board has supported CH to the tune of about £20M and he personally has persuaded the likes of RvW, Hooper, Redmond, Olsson, Fer and Co. to come to Norwich and before that Bassong, Turner & Tetty - no mean feat.

After all this investment why sack the man after just 5 games with his new team? He has to be given the opportunity to decide his best side, get them to gel, and that takes time.

I suggest that some posters who think we should play 442 should read last Tuesday''s i (Independent) which has two pages devoted to UEFA''s technical report on Champions League tatics. Some posters on here are in the dinosaur age when it comes to tatics and clearly have no idea how to run a business which is what Premier League football is.

[......and Smith must score. 1,342]

[quote user="im spartacus"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

He can be lauded as what he likes but if I lose my five bob he''ll soon see what bullying really is...

 

 

[/quote]LOL have a word with your mate city 1st about self depreciating humour [:D][/quote]Which is what will happen to high roller Nigel''s five bob if this turns out to be a crock of s*ite.Mrs Nutty will not be pleased.....

[4th floor 4]

[quote user="Macey"][quote user="JonnyH"]If the board is taking the previous half-season into account then it might have been better to have changed the manager in the summer. After say 10-15 games, perhaps there''s justification to change; less than that and the question of "Why not last summer?" is a valid one.[/quote]

I do understand where you are coming from and I was also willing to give him at least 10 games this season but after seeing how we are performing I am starting to move to the Hughton out side of the fan base and I will give you a few reasons to my thinking.

- The continued poor performances from last season, especially away from home which must be very hard on the amazing away support we take so this is going to effect how many people go to away matches in the future.

- Following on from the away form I am worried if we keep playing so bad away that it is then going to soon start effecting our home form and at the moment our home form has been OK so if this starts to suffer we are in real trouble. If we keep playing like we are in away games it WILL bleed over to our home form no doubt.

- Now if you look at our next 5 games. If Hughton stays and we loose 4 and win one it will be easy for the board to say "well it was Chelsea, Arsenal, Man City bla bla bla" and give him another 5 games or so to see if our form improves. But I would like to think that since the next 5 games are going to be rather testing that it might be the best time to bring a new manager in to get to know the players and get across his new training ideas and bring in the staff he wants without having to much pressure since we have games against three top teams.

- Lastly the tactics/subs etc. Still does not seem to have a plan B, C , D etc when we go behind or are getting out played in certain parts of the pitch. Late substitutions/strange substitutions. Not seeming to have picked a clear penalty taker for the season, all he needed to say at the start of the season is "right RVW is my No1 pen taker and no exceptions! if he is not on the pitch then so and so is No2 etc". Hughton did say he wanted RVW to take it at the weekend but he did not clearly say RVW was my chosen pen taker for the season. This is his quote,"We were all expecting Ricky to take it. Those conversations are very private (over who the designated penalty taker is) but I expected him to take it and if we get one in the future then I would expect him to take it." Just come out and say RVW was our chosen taker for the season and Snoddy should not have taken it from him FFS! earlier in the piece he said sometimes you get players who are very confident and he felt he was going to put it away, I call BS, Snoddy was getting so much stick and he has been most of the season for poor performances that I believe he just wanted to take it to getting some of the stick off his back from the fans.... He done well in the build up to the pen he should have thought of the team and given it straight to Ricky. Oh this point went on a bit to much and I was venting some there! :>

[/quote]I''ve been critical of some of performances and tactics too, as well as related things like the skill and fitness levels and even the training schedule. There do genuinely seem to be some worrying signs of player discontent, like you say with Snoddy taking that penalty, as well as a lack of progress in areas of our play. But are these concerns critical or something that we could pull through?There''s always an element of "yes, but look at the recent xyz" in these matters when it comes to whether to get rid of a manager, particularly at an early stage if there is a mood of fear and pessimism. The low mood results in a lot of second-guessing about potential future negatives and analysis of positive reasons for an early change.I''ve noticed some of recent points made by others which weren''t previously

often made, it''s only now there''s a negative atmosphere that people are discussing them. Before it was all the lack of decent strikers, now it''s the midfield and the poor service through the middle (which was always the root issue). Lots of crosses was good before but the strikers were bad, now the strikers are good but too many crosses are bad because we''re too one-dimensional and predictable.The present atmosphere shares some similarities with that of Arsenal when they had a couple of periods when it seemed like the sky was going to fall down (albeit unlike Hughton, Wenger was longer-serving with a somewhat better track record); similar arguments for making an early change were made (concerning CL qualification instead of relegation), yet the pessimism eventually lifted. I''m not saying I''m for or against a change (I think we should wait), but we need to tread carefully and guard against acting purely on fear of what might happen.One point I made before is that we don''t necessarily need to rush into a permanent appointment if there is no suitable candidate immediately available. Because we''re a Premier League club we could probably attract an experienced ''safe pair of hands'' to do an interim job until the end of the season (like Chelsea did by appointing Benitez). Too many times in the recent past we''ve had changes in playing and coaching staff when we''d perhaps have done better if we''d had a more lengthy recruitment process.

[Redders Right Foot 22]

Not sure what to think about this to be honest. I''ve been one of his biggest supporters but something is just not right at the moment. Whether I agree with this or not all comes down to who replaces him and how long it takes to get in.

I''d still like his 2 minions to go ans he to stay, though

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="Herman "]"I told you he was shit". Another poster that wants a medal.[/quote]

You just don''t like to admit you were blinded by faith in backing someone who never showed signs of improving. We don''t need medals. Be a bit more graceful and just admit you were wrong, or don''t comment at all. Thanks [Y]