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lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel)

Players not good enough for this level?

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Forget commitment, passion and loyalty. Let''s talk ability;

Russell Martin - Straight in with a controversial one because I, like many, really like the guy. But he''s not good enough.

 

Garrido - Plays in a daze. Wants too much time on the ball and constantly flatters to deceive.

 

Bradley Johnson - A midfielder with so little passing ability will always struggle.

 

Jonny Howson - Such a shame as I really want this kid to do well. But how many chances has he had? He hasn''t found any consistent form since arriving here. 

 

 

I''m not trying to antagonise here, I''m just curious to know who people think are the weak links. IMO theses four mentioned start far too many games for us and should not be considered key players. I don''t believe they would get into any other side in the premiership. They each have enough about them to be carried in better sides, but when they start and form the nucleus of the first 11 I feel we''re very weak.

  

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Well Lincoln, I asked the same question on another thread, if it''s not Hughton fault then are the players we have just not good enough for this level?

 

Or is it that we don''t have any on field leaders anymore, even Bassong doesn''t talk, Martin is not a leader! Do we miss a Holt on & off the pitch?

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[quote user="Indy"]

Well Lincoln, I asked the same question on another thread, if it''s not Hughton fault then are the players we have just not good enough for this level?

 

Or is it that we don''t have any on field leaders anymore, even Bassong doesn''t talk, Martin is not a leader! Do we miss a Holt on & off the pitch?

[/quote]

Agreed. Also find Bassong to be a little eratic at times. Looked ropey on Saturday before getting injured.

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Lack of leadership is now a huge problem for us. Without it the organisation/ team lose all sence of direction both as a collective and individually, the players behaviour recently has demonstrated this.

Yes we do miss Holty but I am not sure if he would have made much difference! I suspect had he stayed his frustration would have resulted in him, deliberately or otherwise, undermining the managers authority.

That may of course have resulted in things coming to a head a bit quicker, maybe accelerating the inevitable departure of our manager, which would only be a good thing for the Club.

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More or less agree with your 4 - not sure about Martin though, think playing CB has messed him up somewhat. I''ll add Tettey, who has been pretty useless since he arrived. A couple of decent games but generally disappointing, goes backwards instead of forwards and can''t pass.Still, we have a squad of around 23 so even if there''s half a dozen not good enough Hughton should be able to pick 11 who are good enough.

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Are we looking for that solid Hard Ar**d midfield general?

 

The players you have mentioned Lincoln I would classify as good squad players, but if we are trying to go to the next level, may be found wanting as regular starters.

 

I like Martin at the club and he always gives his all, but he does concern me when he plays at RB. He does a job at CB, but he would not start for me.

 

Garrido is similar in that he is a back up rather than a number 1 starter.  Has decent enough reading of the game and a cracking left foot on him, but his lack of pace is a concern.

 

Bradley works like a trojan, but at this level you need that little bit more.

 

Snoddgrass has ability and has shown he can work, but again his lack of pace and especially his temperament are a worry.  You don''t always need pace as a wide player but it helps and unless you have the ability of a certain David Beckham, you will eventually be found out.

 

So Lincoln I agree with you, but I would say we are certainly not the only Team in the prem with this issue.  It will take time to improve in these areas, I just hope we get the chance to!

 

This is not a dig at the team it is an observation. (Tin Hat on!)

 

Snake

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I''d like to see Garrido, Martin,Whittaker, BJ and Tettey phased out as we progress.

We are a working progress, Id like to see us work around a spine of Ruddy, Ollsson, Bassong, Turner, Howson, Fer, , Redmond, Pilkington and RVW

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I can see where you''re all coming from.

Martin could be a great prem player, if he had more pace.

Garrido is a good bottom half prem lb

I disagree complete with tettey

Johnson has prem quality tacking and positioning, but not passing

And I think howson can still deliver if he moves into the hole.

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They all have a place within the squad, sure I get that. But surely Hughton can see there weaknesses? I mean why is he starting garrido ahead of Olsson? He seems to needlessly shoot himself in the foot. Same with Whittaker behind Martin at RB.

If Hughton would just play his best 11 I feel we could easily compete.

Ruddy

Whittaker turner Bassong Olsson

Tettey Fer

Pilkington Hoolahan Snodgrass

RVW/Hooper

Got to be our strongest 11 hasn''t it?

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I disagree. We had a lot of League One Championship deadwood. I feel that has well and truly been addressed. I feel the players have more than proved they are capable at this level, certainly Russ has. I dont think BJ is any better than a Championship player, but he would still be a useful squad player. He''d just be nowhere near my first XI.

 

I think the players are more than good enough. Which is why the failure to perform is so frustrating. I do think Snodgrass is very ordinary though. Thin the free-kick statistic from last year has clouded far too many people''s opinions. Useful player. But he''s no Mihalovic/Beckham

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

I disagree. We had a lot of League One Championship deadwood. I feel that has well and truly been addressed. I feel the players have more than proved they are capable at this level, certainly Russ has. I dont think BJ is any better than a Championship player, but he would still be a useful squad player. He''d just be nowhere near my first XI.

 

I think the players are more than good enough. Which is why the failure to perform is so frustrating. I do think Snodgrass is very ordinary though. Thin the free-kick statistic from last year has clouded far too many people''s opinions. Useful player. But he''s no Mihalovic/Beckham

[/quote]

I''d argue that players like Simeon Jackson and Andrew surman are better than some players still here such as Becchio, BJ, Howson.

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"We are a working progress,"whereas before we were a work not in progress - all teams and in a constant state of progress, development that is the nature of football and most other team sportssadly that illogical and vacuous cliche masks the real problem - it is the manager and the system he is using that is at faultLambert came in, took a team who had been stuffed 1-7 at home a turned them into a team who could and did win games, Clough for all his faults gathered together a collection of nobodies and made them into Champions at Derby and Forestthe players listed have the ability and certainly the drive and commitment (see QPR where that didn''t exist), but the formation and tactics are not getting te best out of themthe real progress now is to move to a better manager and coaching staff

ps as to leadership weren''t both Bennett (R) and Howson captains at their previous clubs, so what has happened since they have been here ?

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mrs miggins wrote the following post at 2013-09-24 9:04 PM:

well we finished 12th and then 11th, so they are good enough

Oh dear me Mrs Miggins - you don''t half live in the past - finishing 12th and 11th is history - it''s what happens now, with the players Hughton has signed to strengthen his squad (allegedly) not what occurred last season or even the season before (which forgive me if I am wrong but was under the guidance of Lambert)!

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Lets also remember how we got to 11th with two results at the end of the season and under lambert we limped after Xmas to survival.

I believe with the new acquisitions they prove they are a totally different level to our existing team, totally different level and that is what makes it hard.

In Lamberts first season in the prem he bought players that were of a similar level to what we had. No one player was above and beyond, it was the team ethic that kept us up.

Then Hughton brought in players into an area that was appalling, are back four. With our best defender leaving in naughton we needed it and again the new players stood way ahead, garrido over Tierney, tettey was the midfield mould we had needed for years, bassong over whitbread who left.

Now rvw, fer have proved marquee signings... Hooper a massive upgrade on our previous forwards... Olsson a ready made prem left back... Redmond already showing up some more senior players.

Quite simply as you get better you require better players moving players to the bench and then squad. We missed out in key positions but acquired general quality in others we need to get more in because I do feel many have reached their level. Which is not a problem it is what happens when you now look at a European market. Fer''s quality for the price highlights what is out there and how far ahead he is from some of our central midfield group.

Yes many can do the prem. but who would be interested in signing any of them. The only rumour now was ruddy, again speaks volumes.

I am happy with our squad but we will need to improve on many of our champ squad and first year in the prem squad in the next window. It is an evolution to become a good club.

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Sorry we are a good club, but if we want a team and squad that bodes good quality across like fer then we need to buy.

We certainly are a good club but we are looking to become one of the best clubs in the country outside of the super rich top 6-8

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"City 2nd"mrs miggins wrote the following post at 2013-09-24 9:04 PM:

well we finished 12th and then 11th, so they are good enough

Oh dear me Mrs Miggins - you don''t half live in the past - finishing 12th and 11th is history - it''s what happens now, with the players Hughton has signed to strengthen his squad (allegedly) not what occurred last season or even the season before (which forgive me if I am wrong but was under the guidance of Lambert)!

Aren''t you being a wee bit hypocritical? You accuse Mrs Miggins of living in the past, yet you and others like to bring up last season''s results to bash Hughton.

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"and under lambert we limped after Xmas to survival."

what a load of old sh itewe achieved 25 points in the second half against 22 in the first half of the season(or after Xmas if you prefer)we only dropped below 12th on three occasions and that was only to 13thand we finished 11 points clear of the highest relegation placelimped to survive, my ar se !

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The same Forum Members criticizing the players for being not good enough are those who are criticizing Hughton as well. What''s it to be then, the Manager or the Players?

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Yeah but most wins after Christmas were because the players rebelled against Lambert and his gung-ho mentality.

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Can''t believe someone would think Russel Martin isn''t good enough.
His pace can catch him out as a full-back but i think he''s an excellent CB.

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