Expectations and Realism

[ricardo 7,344]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]Well Swansea seem to make a very decent job of staying in the league whilst playing attractive football.

Just because a club may have x many world class players in their squad, doesn''t mean they are the only ones entitled to play attractive football. Others can play it too. There''s nothing stopping them, only themselves.

Hughton obviously believes we don''t have the squad in order to play attractive and attacking football. He seems to have a belief that it''s a squad best suited to play limited, defensive, boring football. That''s up to him. However, it''s this attitude that will see him lose his job here, which I believe will happen before this coming Christmas.

What Hughton''s style of management is effectively telling us is that only 19 league are any use to us. The other 19 (away from home) are of no use whatsoever, because we will always pop to an away ground hoping and praying for the point, but then we''ll return to oh so beautiful Norfolk with sweet sweet nothing.[/quote]Yes Swansea play some nice stuff and gained 7 points more than us away from home. But 5 points less when playing at home.Well we managed to return from 9 of those 19 matches with something last year and that''s more matches than 5 other teams could manage.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

Norwich 2 - 2 Swansea

Swansea 3 - 4 Norwich

Swansea 2 - 3 Norwich

Norwich 3 - 1 Swansea

 

 

[ricardo 7,344]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

Norwich 2 - 2 Swansea

Swansea 3 - 4 Norwich

Swansea 2 - 3 Norwich

Norwich 3 - 1 Swansea

 

 

[/quote]Obviously all games where the players revolted and defied the manager.

[YankeeCanary 0]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Row D Seat 7"]@ Ricardo We are small fish in a big pond, but I''d like to see us at least play exciting, attacking football and if we go down as a result, I''m ok with that. If it''s a choice between having a right good go at the opposition and losing or being defensive and still losing, I know which one I''d prefer. Just because we''re not a big Prem team doesn''t mean we have to play rubbish, boring football each and every week.[/quote]

Indeed, we all like to see a nice open game with City winning and I am sure you will agree that its much easier to achieve that aim when you are a big fish in a small pond eg. Us in the Champs and League 1.

Yes, I like to be entertained but losing 4-5 in a crackerjack game does not compensate me for nil points. When we go one nil up in a game I would be quite content for the ref to blow for full time, even if it were after 15 minutes. Now I realise not everyone would agree with that. I belong to the late Ron Saunders school who once famously commented something along these lines after a sterile City victory in 1971. "In football it''s the result that counts and any entertainment is entirely coincidental".

Perhaps I''m alone in my full and total agreement with Ron.

And have now donned my tin hat again.[:D]
[/quote]

 

Well now Rickyyyyyy.. you were at the agm like I was and I strongly suspect that the board have taken the mantra according to Ron and adapted it to say "It''s remaining in the Premier League that counts and any entertainment is entirely coincidental".

 

 

 

 

[/quote]

They might not say it Nigel but you can bet they are thinking it..

As far as I''m concerned, if we win then I''ve been entertained and if we don''t I haven''t so in effect I''m very easy to please. Keep getting the 3 points and I''ll keep coming.

I still get the strong impression on here that most people would be far happier with a promotion push in the Championship because we are bound to bounce back aren''t we?

Remember how well that worked between 1995 and 2004?
[/quote]

 

I suspect a slight misrepresentation there Ricardo. You will keep going if we get nothing.

[Row D Seat 7 0]

Not sure why people dismiss Swansea so much. Maybe because they go against the point you were struggling to make. You say what would happen if Michu got injured. He didn''t/hasn''t. So what. Just because Michu might get injured, doesn''t make them a poor footballing side.

Yes, Swansea are no more established than us, but they have performed better thank us since our shared arrival in the Premier League. Whilst our results against them have been fantastic, they are a better side than us. They decided to go for the League Cup too. Something we decided to bottle at the Quarter Final stage.

I take your points about exciting football vs. results. I understand why many share the view that if we won 1-0 each week then that''s fine. I don''t agree, but that''s the whole point with opinions.

People such as Ricardo, Morty etc seem to struggle with anyone having a differing opinion and seem to attempt to speak from a higher ground than the rest.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

I''m certainly not dismissing Swansea at all, Row D. Indeed I really cannot see what point Nigel is trying to make by quoting 4 isolated results over 2 years. But there we are.......

All I''m saying is that Swansea''s style of play, though easy on the eye, does not have a terribly good record of Prem survival over a period of time.

You are right, it''s not terribly exciting to watch a load of one-nil shutouts. However, I''ll bet that you''d accept that outcome over our next 3 games ?!

[Row D Seat 7 0]

Quite right. I would certainly accept that outcome from our next 3 games.

I think Sunday''s game will be a good indication of how we will approach away games from now on under CH. Hughton knows how the fans feel and if we don''t change our away approach now, we probably never will. I think we will get a point, but Stoke are much improved and I think they will be very strong at home this season.

[a1canary 0]

Football fans are all the same underneath, whether they are Norwich fans, Stoke fans or Chelsea fans. The way they behave and react and their outlook is shaped by the fortunes of their team.

The ''winning pretty debate'' is only an issue if you are used to winning. Once you are used to winning, the only two things left to focus on are: 

1. What you win.

2. How you win.

Obviously there are differences among fans and "Rowdy" is one such example. But generally speaking, if you''ve spent a lot of time in the lower leagues losing, winning to maintain PL status is all the matters, at least to begin with! The change will happen though, when more fans prefer winning with some degree of style than just winning ugly. It happened at Stoke, but only after a surprisingly long time!

[It's Character Forming 1,160]

Well  if you compare us to Swansea, in the first year back up in the Prem under Lambert I think our football was every bit as entertaining as them, if more direct, and we both ended up on the same number of points.

 

Both teams then lost their manager and they brought in Laudrup who made the inspired signing of Michu who became one of the top scorers in the league.  Despite that they only finished 2 points above us.  OK they won the league cup, clearly that is not a priority for our club nor for many others.

 

Like last year, Laudrup has got them out of the blocks quickly with some good results.  How they will do over the whole season remains to be seen.  It is a valid concern that they are over-dependant on Michu and whether they will be able to have long term success with their style of play.

 

I think people just need to remember that there are 20 teams in the Prem of whom around 6-7 are realistically in competition for the title and the CL places, there are the newly promoted clubs where survival is all that matters, and that leaves 10 clubs in the middle who want to survive and get as high up the middle of the table as they can.  

 

We are financially one of the weaker clubs in that middle pack.  All of these clubs are looking at each other and scrapping to improve every year.  To point at Swansea as if Hughton could just say to his players, "play like them" is just not realistic.  If it was easy, everyone would do it.  And if it is a choice between playing open, attractive football and getting results, then for me it''s results every time.

[ricardo 7,344]

[quote user="YankeeCanary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Row D Seat 7"]@ Ricardo We are small fish in a big pond, but I''d like to see us at least play exciting, attacking football and if we go down as a result, I''m ok with that. If it''s a choice between having a right good go at the opposition and losing or being defensive and still losing, I know which one I''d prefer. Just because we''re not a big Prem team doesn''t mean we have to play rubbish, boring football each and every week.[/quote]Indeed, we all like to see a nice open game with City winning and I am sure you will agree that its much easier to achieve that aim when you are a big fish in a small pond eg. Us in the Champs and League 1.Yes, I like to be entertained but losing 4-5 in a crackerjack game does not compensate me for nil points. When we go one nil up in a game I would be quite content for the ref to blow for full time, even if it were after 15 minutes. Now I realise not everyone would agree with that. I belong to the late Ron Saunders school who once famously commented something along these lines after a sterile City victory in 1971. "In football it''s the result that counts and any entertainment is entirely coincidental".Perhaps I''m alone in my full and total agreement with Ron.And have now donned my tin hat again.[:D][/quote]

 

Well now Rickyyyyyy.. you were at the agm like I was and I strongly suspect that the board have taken the mantra according to Ron and adapted it to say "It''s remaining in the Premier League that counts and any entertainment is entirely coincidental".

 

 

 

 

[/quote]They might not say it Nigel but you can bet they are thinking it..As far as I''m concerned, if we win then I''ve been entertained and if we don''t I haven''t so in effect I''m very easy to please. Keep getting the 3 points and I''ll keep coming.I still get the strong impression on here that most people would be far happier with a promotion push in the Championship because we are bound to bounce back aren''t we?Remember how well that worked between 1995 and 2004? [/quote]

 

I suspect a slight misrepresentation there Ricardo. You will keep going if we get nothing.

[/quote]Very true Yankee, if I could stomach 26 games without a win in 1956 and 6 subsequent relegation''s I doubt there will be anything to stop me other than an appointment with the Grim Reaper.[:(]

[ricardo 7,344]

[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]Not sure why people dismiss Swansea so much. Maybe because they go against the point you were struggling to make. You say what would happen if Michu got injured. He didn''t/hasn''t. So what. Just because Michu might get injured, doesn''t make them a poor footballing side.

Yes, Swansea are no more established than us, but they have performed better thank us since our shared arrival in the Premier League. Whilst our results against them have been fantastic, they are a better side than us. They decided to go for the League Cup too. Something we decided to bottle at the Quarter Final stage.

I take your points about exciting football vs. results. I understand why many share the view that if we won 1-0 each week then that''s fine. I don''t agree, but that''s the whole point with opinions.

People such as Ricardo, Morty etc seem to struggle with anyone having a differing opinion and seem to attempt to speak from a higher ground than the rest.[/quote]You are fully entitled to your opinion RDS7.I am making the point that lack of what you call entertainment would never stop me going and if its a choice between entertainment and winning then I''ll take 3 points every time.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]I''m certainly not dismissing Swansea at all, Row D. Indeed I really cannot see what point Nigel is trying to make by quoting 4 isolated results over 2 years. [/quote]

 

I''m sure you don''t Reggie. And i''m sure you can''t see the relevance of the fact that over 76 games Swansea have achieved just 2 more Premier League points than we have. So if you can''t see the point of any of those facts when comparing Swansea and us over the last two seasons then I reckon you must have an agenda.

 

 

[Bill 1,788]

"if its a choice between entertainment and winning then I''ll take 3 points every time."I find winning quite an entertainment in itself