A turning point in our season?

[NCFC for life 1993- 0]

Great win tonight. I for one was, like many was about to jump on the forum here and call for Hughtons sacking. It was good to see fight back from the team and hope its the start of some more positive performances. We need another 30 or so of them this season! Not 1 good performance every so often but consistently good performances.

[Shyster 0]

A turning point would be three points at Stoke.

Other than that we beat Watford reserves after extra time.

[Yellow Wal 314]

It could be a turning point ........... if Hughton is brave enough.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,503]

The significant thing here is that they were 2-0 down and brought it back to level terms, then went on to win it. It''s been a long time since we''ve seen Norwich come back from behind.

I think it will do wonders for their self-confidence to have turned it round like that, particularly away from home. It was a long, gruelling mid-week game, but Stoke isn''t until Sunday, so they''ll be reasonably rested.

Furthermore, Watford have been on a long run of good form so they were coming into the game in a confident frame of mind. They''re a Championship side, but they''re also one of the best Championship sides so it''s not reasonable to expect them to be pushovers.

Hooper is looking very good. Two beautifully executed goals. Josh Murphy made a fairy-tale competitive entrance and I think he''s got to figure in CH''s first team thoughts after essentially turning the game around.

Should also be noted that Villa lost to Tottenham 4-0, which was another bright spot to the evening. :-)

It''s also encouraging that Hughton is making substitutions more regularly than last season and they were all very attack-minded ones today. He was actively pushing the team to hold a higher line as well.

Psychologically, I don''t think that game could have panned out any better for the team.

[LondonCanary 12]

Are you kidding me? Did you see the game?

We were completely outplayed by a championship side for 70 minutes. A 120minute run out midweek before Stoke away is not what you want.

Hoolahan and Johnson were woeful and were subbed off for our best player (Fer) and are only option to play on the wing (Murhpy) I wouldnt say these were inspired substitutions - my mate who came to the game and knows nothing of Norwich called the players that needed to come off 10mins before hand and they were the only two viable options on the bench.

Murhpy offers raw talent but we cant relpy on him every week in a premier league campaign.

It was a great game though - really enjoyable and of course good news we progress in the cup. The game did highlight the current issues in our team though when it comes to a completely defensive set up, one dimensional football and lack of creativity.

[Fleck@Millwall 0]

According to those who were there, we were very poor for 75 minutes up until the substitution of Josh.

Everyone wants us to go and have a go at Stoke.He is still under huge pressure because the performances and results this seasons apart from some patches in games have been dire and rather than going in the right direction the last two games have been very alarming for all. Most fans will be back on side if we win at Stoke but I just keep thinking about 4 points after 8 in the league and that would spell the end for me personally and mean it was another season of damage limitation and crisis.

That said, maybe this is Hoots modus operandi and we start sh*t, pick up and then drop off towards the end of the season. Lots of clubs are like this in the premiership having their own peaks and troughs which repeat season after season.

[ron obvious 1,495]

LondonCanary wrote the following post at 25/09/2013 7:22 AM:

Are you kidding me? Did you see the game?

We were completely outplayed by a championship side for 70 minutes. A 120minute run out midweek before Stoke away is not what you want.

Hoolahan and Johnson were woeful and were subbed off for our best player (Fer) and are only option to play on the wing (Murhpy) I wouldnt say these were inspired substitutions - my mate who came to the game and knows nothing of Norwich called the players that needed to come off 10mins before hand and they were the only two viable options on the bench.

That is quite extraordinary, because it bears no relationship to the commentary I listened to, or the reports I read (including Watford based ones).

I don''t know what to believe any more.

[BarclayCanary (Former HDDH) 0]

From what I heard on radio norfolk we were all over them and they scored with there first shot, we had something like 18 or more corners.

 

That is hardly defensive now is it?

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

As with so many things in life, there are 2 ways of looking at last night''s result.

On the one hand, it was only the C1C, and, , despite what Ron says above, I too got the distinct impression from the commentary that we produced nothing of note and were outplayed by a Champ side for 70 mins.

On the other hand, Hughton did, for once show some guts, changed the formation , put on the lad Murphy and went for it . The rest is history.

Overall then the message that must be taken is that , at the very least we must have a plan B (sorely lacking in any of our performances in the last year or so). I guess it''s too much to ask CH to change his spots, but last night was tacit proof that if all else fails, then you''ve got to mix it about a bit...swap wingers over, tinker with the formation, get more movement (not rocket science) . As to whether we progress both in the league and the Cups , and whether CH gets to keep his job, is very much dependent on whether the management team , and, to be fair, the players, have the self belief and discipline to learn lessons from Vicarage Rd.

[OxShireCanaryYellow 0]

I was there.

We were all over them, possession wise. But we had no attacking threat with the ball for the whole first half and long periods of the second.

Murphy did change the game. He ran at players (comfortably) and yes there back four were knackered but he wasn''t afraid. He also seemed to spark Redmond into action who looked as if he had a ''anything he can do I can do better'' mentality.

Hooper look shattered after 75 mins, but fairplay to him - he kept going until 120 and proved he''ll score goals.

Elmander did very little when coming on. Would have preferred Becchio - sure the boy would have tried his heart out!

Johnson and Wes were woeful. Neither will play on Sunday.

R Bennett looked assured at the back. Olsson has to start LB for me on Sunday as well.

Overall, a rollarcoaster ride of emotions. But that''s why we love football, right?

[LondonCanary 12]

Relying on the impartial coverage of radio norfolk and isolated statistics such as the number of Norwich corners (all of which came in the last 15mins of normal time + extra time) does not give you a fair reflection of the game. Watford''s 14 shots on target (Bunn in top form) v Norwich''s six is a better metric for measuring the general measure of play.

Like I said though it was a GREAT game - I just can''t see how taking 120mins to overcome a championship side which made 7 changes to their regular side is season defining.

[whistleblower 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]LondonCanary wrote the following post at 25/09/2013 7:22 AM:

Are you kidding me? Did you see the game?

We were completely outplayed by a championship side for 70 minutes. A 120minute run out midweek before Stoke away is not what you want.

Hoolahan and Johnson were woeful and were subbed off for our best player (Fer) and are only option to play on the wing (Murhpy) I wouldnt say these were inspired substitutions - my mate who came to the game and knows nothing of Norwich called the players that needed to come off 10mins before hand and they were the only two viable options on the bench.

That is quite extraordinary, because it bears no relationship to the commentary I listened to, or the reports I read (including Watford based ones).

I don''t know what to believe any more.[/quote]I was there and completely agree with London Canary - we were okay without really threatening for 10 mins - then were pitiful for 65 mins and looked cluelless and played 1 up top until halftime.  Elmander came on and didnt do much. Josh Murphy scored out of nothing and only then when they thought they might still have a chance did we see any real passion from several of them.Fer coming on was a massive boost and his control in midfield was the real driving force - he had an awesome game.My team ratingsBunn - 6/10 some good saves amongst his unfortunate characteristic of letting in long range goals - too small Whittaker - 7/10 - largely a good game with some good tackling. Bennet - 6/10 - okayMartin - 6/10 - okayGarrido - 5/10 - just doesnt get forward enoughOlsson - 4/10 - pedestrianJohnson - 4/10 - Jonno - what has happened to you????Tettey - 5/10 - poor touch a lot of the timeHoolahan - 1/10 - the rating says it allRedmond - 6/10 - not too much until later on Hooper - 8/10 - nice control, flicks and goals - looked ring rusty earlySubsfer - 9/10 - phenomenalMurphy - 7/10 - decent performance, showed naievity at timesElmander - 5/10 - not best perf

[paul moy 235]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]It could be a turning point ........... if Hughton is brave enough.[/quote]... and that''s exactly the problem. He should stop being fearful and have faith in the talent in the squad. If we''re going to defend all game and lose 1-0 why not attack and lose 5-4. Entertain amd also give yourself a chance of winning. Goal difference counts for nothing unless it is really tight at the bottom at the end of the season, but if we play to our strengths it will be irrelevant. GO FOR WINS !!!!!!!

[Carra Rud 17]

Last nights result? Hmmm, just papering over some pretty big cracks

much like the wins against WBA and Man City did at the end of last

season.Nothing has changed, nothing will change, business as usual vs Stoke.

[Salopian 1]

Time will tell whether this is a turning point, or merely a blip in a period of decline.

 

There were certainly some positives, and especially the goals which were all well taken, and the first competitive goal for both scorers. Above all, I shall remember the pin-point accuracy and touch in Fer''s pass to Hooper for the final goal. This should convince the team and manager that we can progress by other means than going down the wing, and that players must anticipate passes from colleagues. It also demonstrated that we can win even if Seb isn''t playing. We did concede two, although the first had an element of luck with the rebound which could have gone anywhere.

 

A turning point? Perhaps, if they build on it and adopt the more positive attitudes which saw us home. I fear that at Stoke we may again see the hesitant, over-awed, fearful defensive approach which has cost us so many away points this season. I should add  that the management must also learn lessons, in team selection and tactics, and be prepared to try things.

 

[Tetteys Jig 830]

The post above sums it up well Salopian. Also, in reference to us not being able to rely on Murphy week in week out. I''d say we don''t need to, but he''s a useful player who we should consider for first team duty now in Bennetts absence. It''s not like he''ll play 90 mins week in week out, but given our weakness has been our response to going a goal down, he''s ideal foil to bring off the bench and ruffle a few feathers. He''s got pace, a great shot (was it Josh who scored pre season too?) and a direct threat.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

It''s entirely a confidence thing. If we get scared away from home and crawl under a shell like we do, we''re gonna get beat. If we actually banish them demons and go for it, we''ll probably still lose more often than win but i bet we''d see a good 5 away wins this season.

It''s a bit like talking to the opposite sex, if you go in scared and unconfident, it shows and you get nowhere but that knob at the end of the bar bragging about how great he is does sometimes. At least he went for it.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="LondonCanary"]Relying on the impartial coverage of radio norfolk and isolated statistics such as the number of Norwich corners (all of which came in the last 15mins of normal time + extra time) does not give you a fair reflection of the game. Watford''s 14 shots on target (Bunn in top form) v Norwich''s six is a better metric for measuring the general measure of play.

Like I said though it was a GREAT game - I just can''t see how taking 120mins to overcome a championship side which made 7 changes to their regular side is season defining.[/quote]

Sorry I just can;t agree with what you say. we were outplayed for approximately 20 minutes in the second half, largely as a result of the fact that we lost our shape through firstly bringing on Elmander for Garrido and then putting a clearly knackered Wes (who first half was good) into a midfield slot. That was the only period we were outplayed.

We, however, outplayed them and generally looked pretty good (other than perhaps lacking a bit of cutting edge/final ball) for for the opening 25 minutes then then scored a goal, out of nothing from a combination of a defensive error, a powerful strike an din my view poor goalkeeping. After than honours were pretty even for the rest of the first half. again their second goal came from a mistake and a good strike as well and that then prompted our really poor spell.

I''m not saying we were great because clearly for a period of the second half we were far from great and you could see the confidence draining but to say we were outplayed or outclassed for 70 minutes is patently wrong.

To go back to the OP''s original question, however, where io hope last night could prove to be something of a turning point is it gives us a bit of momentum, it will help the players confidence, there were signs of some good team spirit emerging at the end, Hooper is on song and must now be confident and also it has very clearly pointed Hughton in the direction of our best midfield combination in Tettey and Fer who completely bossed things once they were paired together.

What Hughton must now do is build on those aspects of last night by picking the right team for Sunday and going into the game with the right attitude.

[ricardo 7,332]

[quote user="LondonCanary"]Relying on the impartial coverage of radio norfolk and isolated statistics such as the number of Norwich corners (all of which came in the last 15mins of normal time + extra time) does not give you a fair reflection of the game. Watford''s 14 shots on target (Bunn in top form) v Norwich''s six is a better metric for measuring the general measure of play.

Like I said though it was a GREAT game - I just can''t see how taking 120mins to overcome a championship side which made 7 changes to their regular side is season defining.[/quote]Funny, we had 8 corners in the first half to Watfords 1.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

You couldn''t make it up.......[*-)]

 

 

 

 

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

To those who were actually there last night, as a a mattter of interest how did the pairing of Tettey and Fer look ? I know it was relatively brief, but it sort of coincided with the Norwich revival . Perhaps NOT a coincidence ??!!

We seem to be trying all the various midfield permutations this season . It''s to be hoped that the best one will soon emerge, as, if there is to be a turning point in this season, it will, in my opinion, largely hinge on that.

[Yellow Shirt 17]

Last night was a really good game- the rollercoaster we don''t mind at all, but the fact that it just felt like the same old same old for 70mins continues to worry.Can we carry on where we left off? Let''s see on Sunday. I doubt it and I still have no confidence in Hughton, hopefully the last 20 minutes will be the start of things to come or at the very least stop the excuse that the players aren''t good enough in general as we clearly have at the very least SOME quality.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]To those who were actually there last night, as a a mattter of interest how did the pairing of Tettey and Fer look ? I know it was relatively brief, but it sort of coincided with the Norwich revival . Perhaps NOT a coincidence ??!!

We seem to be trying all the various midfield permutations this season . It''s to be hoped that the best one will soon emerge, as, if there is to be a turning point in this season, it will, in my opinion, largely hinge on that.[/quote]

It looked very good. Admittedly it was against a Watford midfield who were very tired by then but once Fer and Tettey were playing together we took complete control of the game. I think it works well because both are strong and athletic and Tettey is very good at just sitting in front of the back 4, breaking up play and picking up the loose balls. his presence then enables Fer to play a more progressive role which he did well and ultimately led to the winning goal. I also hope this is the combination Hughton settles on starting on Sunday.

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Thanks for that, Jim. From the outset, I had high hopes of a potential Tettey/Fer pairing this season . There are sure to be times when , for whatever reason it does not work, but then we have Jonno, Howson etc in the background. Like you, I''d like to see this used at the Britannia, as it looks tailor made for a game like this.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Big difference for me is that the winger played on the correct wing, leading to quicker crosses instead of cutting back every time !

[Indy 3,283]

I''m not sure a win against Watford reserves can be classed as a turning point, even if they are one of the better teams in the championship.

 

It''s a good result and one I had hoped we would get, so great response from the players after going 2 down.

 

A lot of positives to be taken but can only be considered a turning point if Hughton and the players carry this into the game on Sunday.

 

I do wonder how many changes will be made form the team last night, no doubt that the team played well from the outset and both teams could have scored more goals in the first half. The introduction of Murphy, switching of Redmond and the arrival of Fer with the quality of runs Hooper appreared to be making (Highlights only seen by me) was the momentum we needed.

 

But in all honsety in the second half and into extra time either team had the chance to win, so all though it was by all appearances a great cup game and the best possible result, I don''t think we can class it as a turnig point or relieving any preassure off Hughton, I still think he has to get the result this Sunday at Stoke and I really do hor the players get one hell or a performance to win for Hughton and the fans.

 

Nice to talk about positives and not negatives all the time, Murphy and Redomond on the pitch should scare any defence in the next few years!

[Reggie Strayshun 0]

Very good points from both Swindon and Indy above. CH seems to have been sucked into this current fad for playing wingers on the wrong wing.

Certainly, just winning a C1C tie ve inferior opposition cannot in itself be classed as a turning point, but there is the potential for any fallout from this performance to be hugely significant.

Let''s not forget that yesterday morning even the vast majority of posters on here , inc the Hughton In people had written last night''s game off. Certainly at 75 mins , I had. But things have a funny habit of changing very quickly in football.

[ron obvious 1,495]

I just find it inexplicable that different people present at the same game can have such conflicting views, both about the progress of the game in general & the performances of particular players.

Perhaps even more inexplicable is that supporters such as Parma Ham''s gone mouldy & Lavanche seem to have a better understanding of what is going on.

[nutty nigel 7,506]

Well that London canary bloke wasn''t there that''s for sure. Either that or he missed the whole first half.

 

 

[Tumbleweed 106]

I hope it is a turning point but I have my doubts. I really want to see CH succeed, seems like a really decent and measured bloke (and for that reason sometimes I wonder if the issue is Calderwood and Trollope more than CH). However reading the various reports I can''t help but feel that this was the "same old same old" from a Hughton side and that a few individuals turned it round for him out of personal pride after Josh Murphy''s shot from nowhere. Had we dominated possession AND been creative fluid and cohesive throughout I might have been more confident. But after the game CH''s negative side came out and instead of bigging things up with Josh seemed to damp it all down by saying he isn''t ready. I understand he doesn''t want to create pressure but it was a goal in the capital one cup on a Tuesday night against Watford, not exactly the Champs League final, so a bit of confidence boosting puffery might have been nice for the lad. The Stoke game will be fascinating, but 43 Prem games in and I''m very sceptical that the underlying issues have been addressed.