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ricardo

Set up not to lose

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Just a little addition:

 

Cardiff; 19 attempts 4 on target 2 Goals

West Brom: 10 Attempts 4 on target 2 Goals

 

Both away from home at established prem clubs.

 

Snake

 

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[quote user="JF"]Think this has backfired a bit![/quote]Well it just goes to show that you can set up not to lose, create loads of chances and win. If only Hughton could learn that...

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The thread idea seems pretty stupid now. Major backfire. Counting unhatched eggs. Pretty much every point you intended to confirm got ripped to shreds. Small teams beating big ones, road teams winning rather than trying to not lose. Bail out now! This thread is a total loss (although I''m sure that''s what you were trying to avoid-HAH!).

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[quote user="JF"]Think this has backfired a bit![/quote]Only repeating Trevor Francis''s comments at half time.But then he knows fu%k all about football.So much for all out attack and damn the consequences. I wonder how  Man City fans feel about that tonight.

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]The thread idea seems pretty stupid now. Major backfire. Counting unhatched eggs. Pretty much every point you intended to confirm got ripped to shreds. Small teams beating big ones, road teams winning rather than trying to not lose. Bail out now! This thread is a total loss (although I''m sure that''s what you were trying to avoid-HAH!).[/quote]Perhaps you should have watched the game Houston, (or do we have a problem). Villa dropped deep but took their only chances plus a fortunate offside and finished up winning the game. Pretty much how we beat Man U and Arsenal last season.Nobody seems to mind the dropping deep when your team win. It only becomes a problem and a stick to beat the manager with when you don''t.

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There is nothing wrong with how Hughton sets the team up, its how he executes the strategy that is lacking. I expected us to play as Villa did today this season. Set up not to lose as you say and with the key new signings be more ruthless going forward when we get the ball. Maybe Hooper will be the man that clicks it all together. Tomorrow will show how much the team are behind Hughton and his tactics cos i think he will be gone if we lose.

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[quote user="JF"]There is nothing wrong with how Hughton sets the team up, its how he executes the strategy that is lacking. I expected us to play as Villa did today this season. Set up not to lose as you say and with the key new signings be more ruthless going forward when we get the ball. Maybe Hooper will be the man that clicks it all together. Tomorrow will show how much the team are behind Hughton and his tactics cos i think he will be gone if we lose.[/quote]

 

I''m sure you meant something different JF. But reading this you seem to be saying it''s how the players execute the managers instructions that''s wrong.

 

 

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It must be a toss up between Jol and Hughton to be next for the chop , esp if we lose tomorrow.

I''ve fancied Fulham to struggle right from the start. Not sure what will happen at Sunderland, tbh. Palarse are doomed already.But the point a lot of people seem to be missing is that with lots of teams picking up sometimes unexpected wins, unless we start to do likewise, we could well get cut adrift frighteningly quickly. Setting up not to lose simply will not do, even if we get a shed load of nil-nil draws.

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Maybe that is the case, but ultimately its the manager that takes the praise or the flack, they are his players and he should be having them playing how he wants by now.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="JF"]There is nothing wrong with how Hughton sets the team up, its how he executes the strategy that is lacking. I expected us to play as Villa did today this season. Set up not to lose as you say and with the key new signings be more ruthless going forward when we get the ball. Maybe Hooper will be the man that clicks it all together. Tomorrow will show how much the team are behind Hughton and his tactics cos i think he will be gone if we lose.[/quote]

 

I''m sure you meant something different JF. But reading this you seem to be saying it''s how the players execute the managers instructions that''s wrong.

 

 

[/quote]Yes, they should revolt and win like they did against Everton last year.

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Didn''t say I wanted Hughton out Ricardo I said I doubt he''ll last long with the way the results are going!!!!

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So Ricardo

 

are you saying if Man City had gone out more defensively they would not have lost? We may never know

 

There seems to be a train of thought. Those that criticise posters that advocate a more attacking ethic are decribed as wanting to be ''Gung Ho'' and sod defending.

 

This is not the case, but people become very defensive of their position and when they are challanged or someone disagrees with that position, the challenging view is pushed to the extreme!

 

Please answer this Ricardo, Why did WBA and Cardiff win today?  Was it just luck that they were not turned over or did they take their fate into their own hands and gave themselves a real chance of getting something?

 

Snake

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I too have just watched the Villa match, aside of any silly arguments on here or whether you love or hate Lambert or CH.............What a crazy match, a match that Man City should have won by several goals (and they were sooo dominant at times before the last 20 minutes it was embarrassing) and a game where Villa had more than a seasons luck, unbelievable stuff. But typical of this league early doors, its all over the place and todays results actually tell me again that there is absolutely no need for any panic or knee jerk reactions at our club at all.

It is pure madness to suggest that the team are not behind Hughton and that he will be gone if we lose tomorrow...........

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[quote user="jedi"]Didn''t say I wanted Hughton out Ricardo I said I doubt he''ll last long with the way the results are going!!!![/quote]He can only be held responsible for our results Jedi. Funny how some see this afternoons scores as somehow another nail in his coffin.I forecast we throw caution to the wind tomorrow and win 3-0.

Or maybe not.Personally I would take a point from any away game.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="JF"]There is nothing wrong with how Hughton sets the team up, its how he executes the strategy that is lacking. I expected us to play as Villa did today this season. Set up not to lose as you say and with the key new signings be more ruthless going forward when we get the ball. Maybe Hooper will be the man that clicks it all together. Tomorrow will show how much the team are behind Hughton and his tactics cos i think he will be gone if we lose.[/quote]

 

I''m sure you meant something different JF. But reading this you seem to be saying it''s how the players execute the managers instructions that''s wrong.

 

 

[/quote]By the same token nutty Hughton is responsible for acquiring the best players possible by his understanding to fulfill his strategies. If they lack the ability to do so Hughton has made a serious error in overlooking this. They may themselves be wanting, but Hughton must be somewhat accountable for that as well if one strives to be impartial on the matter. The same goes for motivation, man-management, tactical coaching... etc.It is early, these are problems that can potentially be remedied, but as things are Hughtons execution on all these matters is at best no less wanting than that of the players and their performances.

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I realise what you highlighted isn''t necessarily reflective of an opinion that it''s the players to blame nutty, i apologise for implying as much.

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[quote user="John"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="JF"]There is nothing wrong with how Hughton sets the team up, its how he executes the strategy that is lacking. I expected us to play as Villa did today this season. Set up not to lose as you say and with the key new signings be more ruthless going forward when we get the ball. Maybe Hooper will be the man that clicks it all together. Tomorrow will show how much the team are behind Hughton and his tactics cos i think he will be gone if we lose.[/quote]

 

I''m sure you meant something different JF. But reading this you seem to be saying it''s how the players execute the managers instructions that''s wrong.

 

 

[/quote]By the same token nutty Hughton is responsible for acquiring the best players possible by his understanding to fulfill his strategies. If they lack the ability to do so Hughton has made a serious error in overlooking this. They may themselves be wanting, but Hughton must be somewhat accountable for that as well if one strives to be impartial on the matter. The same goes for motivation, man-management, tactical coaching... etc.It is early, these are problems that can potentially be remedied, but as things are Hughtons execution on all these matters is at best no less wanting than that of the players and their performances.[/quote]

 

It''s not my point John.

 

I will judge how Hughton gets these players playing when I''ve seen enough of them to do so.

 

I was commenting on what JF seemed to be saying.

 

 

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I think it is more than a bit ! But hey ! When its one of the  forum "elite" who are we to laugh at him ?

Just another pile of apologist nonsense..........I actually  think ....maybe hope that we will win tomorrow .....and if we approach the game the way we did against Watford ...maybe we just might .

However ... I fear we will once again set up to defend 0-0,  and once again , the sensible posts questioning how long we should wait before replacing an ineffective manager, will be  scoffed at and responded to with more snide comments from the "usual suspects "

[quote user="JF"]Think this has backfired a bit![/quote]

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[quote user="Barclay seats 48 49 the 3rd"]

I think it is more than a bit ! But hey ! When its one of the  forum "elite" who are we to laugh at him ?

Just another pile of apologist nonsense..........I actually  think ....maybe hope that we will win tomorrow .....and if we approach the game the way we did against Watford ...maybe we just might .

However ... I fear we will once again set up to defend 0-0,  and once again , the sensible posts questioning how long we should wait before replacing an ineffective manager, will be  scoffed at and responded to with more snide comments from the "usual suspects "

[quote user="JF"]Think this has backfired a bit![/quote]

[/quote]You can always count on me for a snide comment.[:D]

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There''s too few games gone to be making any judgements on what''s in store for us and the rest of the league. I''m sure there are Hammers predicting their own demise after today. have a look again in a few games time.

 

 

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Teams set up not to lose against Man City and Man United.... WOW what a shock. The original poster is a muppet. No-one complains about this.

The problem we have is, setting up ''not to lose'' away at Hull.[/quote]

Lots complained about setting up not to lose at WH Lane when really the only problem was not getting a result.As for the game against Hull, I must have seen a different game. The only validity in that argument is that we got nothing from a game in which we more or less bossed from start to finish.

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---- nutty nigel: But reading this you seem to be saying it''s how the players execute the managers instructions that''s wrong.

He signed these players. If he wanted players who can do something different he should have signed different players. The manager''s job is to get the players to play well. If he can''t do this....

Or indeed perhaps the manager could spend more time coaching attacking plays. Indeed we set up the side so rigidly I could guess the exact positions of our central midfielders the majority of the time the game is played. They are never moving making space for the pass.

Earlier this season an Everton player was interviewed, and they asked him about any changes in coaching since Moyes left. He said Martinez does much more coaching on passing etc, whereas under Moyes there was a lot of fitness work.

I imagine under Hughton it is all about fitness, keeping our shape and defensive plays.

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--- ricardo: As for the game against Hull, I must have seen a different game.

Yes you must have been watching a different game, I saw one with three defensive midfielders across the middle. Tettey, Fer, BJ and another who plays in said position, Howson, on the right wing.

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This is the nub of the problem for people who quote (meaningless) stats about posession, corners, shots off target, km travelled, pass completion etc etc.

The only stat that matters is that Hull scored a goal. We didn''t . End of.

Nobody ever won titles or avoided relegation by having posession, and "bossing " a game against 10 men.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]---- nutty nigel: But reading this you seem to be saying it''s how the players execute the managers instructions that''s wrong.

He signed these players. If he wanted players who can do something different he should have signed different players. The manager''s job is to get the players to play well. If he can''t do this....

Or indeed perhaps the manager could spend more time coaching attacking plays. Indeed we set up the side so rigidly I could guess the exact positions of our central midfielders the majority of the time the game is played. They are never moving making space for the pass.

Earlier this season an Everton player was interviewed, and they asked him about any changes in coaching since Moyes left. He said Martinez does much more coaching on passing etc, whereas under Moyes there was a lot of fitness work.

I imagine under Hughton it is all about fitness, keeping our shape and defensive plays.[/quote]

 

Foggy! Whatever are you blathering on about now?

 

 

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