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Juggy

We have played 4....

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Out of last seasons top 6. 
And 4 of the other 13 of our competitors. 
Chill out you muppets. 

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Yes, and Liverpool were 7th, 12 points ahead of the rest.  With Man C our next away game that will 5 of that top 7 in our first 10 games.  And our last 4 games are against teams in that group too.

So we need to get on a good run for the 24 games in between.  Something like 35 points will be needed assuming we can beat Cardiff and get nothing at the Etihad.

Sometimes the "big" teams don''t "turn up" - Arsenal and Man U at CR last year for example - but so far this season they have, at least when playing us.  Cardiff, WBA and others have benefitted from no shows, we haven''t.  So we can not afford any more Hull or Villa type performances. But to be fair the way we are playing, especially with a more settled midfield, they look less likely than they did a few weeks ago.

 

 

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Everton. Winnable.

Hull. Winnable.

Southampton. Winnable.

Stoke. Winnable.

Villa. Winnable.

2 wins out of that lot isn''t a great return, when on paper we had one of the best starts we could''ve hoped for.

Everton, a new manger and players that need time to settle in. I''m being ironic btw

Hull, no excuse. 10 men and newly promoted.

Saints I and everyone else expected this.

Villa. Would''nt have scored if were were still playing them. Not kept a clean sheet in a million yrs but surprisingly v us they did.

Stoke. Saw a draw tbh. A win came out of the blue. Could say we "over achieved" such is our away expectation.

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[quote user="Absent Friend"]

Yes, and Liverpool were 7th, 12 points ahead of the rest.  With Man C our next away game that will 5 of that top 7 in our first 10 games.  And our last 4 games are against teams in that group too.So we need to get on a good run for the 24 games in between.  Something like 35 points will be needed assuming we can beat Cardiff and get nothing at the Etihad.Sometimes the "big" teams don''t "turn up" - Arsenal and Man U at CR last year for example - but so far this season they have, at least when playing us.  Cardiff, WBA and others have benefitted from no shows, we haven''t.  So we can not afford any more Hull or Villa type performances. But to be fair the way we are playing, especially with a more settled midfield, they look less likely than they did a few weeks ago.[/quote]

Why do you say they benefit from no show? Both Cardiff & WBA took on their illustrious opponents and had a real go at them. It wasn''t no shows by the big teams it was excellent performances by the underdogs. WBA totally out played both Man Utd and Arsenal in 2 consecutive games. They weren''t backs to the wall performances looking to pinch a point and hope for something more like Norwich''s yet they were some sort of fluke according to you? Their attacking play was quite amazing coupled with a very solid defense. If you think Norwich are currently performing at anything like the level WBA are then you are seriously deluded.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]Everton. Winnable.

Hull. Winnable.

Southampton. Winnable.

Stoke. Winnable.

Villa. Winnable.

2 wins out of that lot isn''t a great return, when on paper we had one of the best starts we could''ve hoped for.

Everton, a new manger and players that need time to settle in. I''m being ironic btw

Hull, no excuse. 10 men and newly promoted.

Saints I and everyone else expected this.

Villa. Would''nt have scored if were were still playing them. Not kept a clean sheet in a million yrs but surprisingly v us they did.

Stoke. Saw a draw tbh. A win came out of the blue. Could say we "over achieved" such is our away expectation.[/quote]
Well if we take Hull out of that, then out of the other 4 then the same fixtures last season brought 4 points and this season have brought 7 points. 
We lost to Chelsea at home last season, and we lost to Arsenal away last season.
Can''t see any reason to panic. 
We have had two terrible performances out of eight in the league. 

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[quote user="can u sit down please"] Would''nt have scored if were were still playing them. [/quote]
Well firstly I thought Guzan had to make a couple of excellent saves in that game, and Hooper should have buried his chance, so don''t think we looked as unlikely to score as you think. As soon as Villa got their goal they stuck 10 men behind the ball - same as Hull. If we are failing in any respect it is not scoring the first goal. I think if we can score the first goal we will do similar against some teams - try and close out the game. They "did a Hughton" on us really. 
Secondly, Villa have since kept another away clean sheet this season against a team unbeaten at home. Every statistic can be countered with another one. Your one is that Villa kept their first clean sheet in 26 games against us. My one is that Villa have conceded just 3 goals in 4 away games this year despite having played both Arsenal and Chelsea away and therefore are obviously far better defensively than you think they are. 

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Well worth reading the replies at the bottom of this piece, from Gooners. Puts things into some sort of perspective.

http://norwichcity.myfootballwriter.com/2013/10/20/not-nice-to-get-smashed-for-four-by-wengers-thoroughbreds-but-in-the-real-world-there-is-still-cause-for-optimism/

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If you thought we were "looking to pinch a point" against Chelsea then you are the one who is seriously deluded, we really went for that game and game undone by a late unfortunate error and an absolutely quality goal. 
We couldn''t have asked any more from our players against Chelsea, and dominated periods of play against a team worth hundreds of millions, what more could we have expected from the team? Did you even watch the game?
But we haven''t played Man Utd, and they played them at the best possible time. I would rather have played Man Utd than Chelsea the other week, the way that the two teams have played so far.
The difference between West Brom and Norwich is 3 points, you are trying to make them out to be top 6 contenders.... they are 13th in the table and they drew 0-0 with Stoke away (we beat Stoke away), lost to Southampton at home (we beat Southampton at home), and have been fortunate to have played Sunderland at home at the right time.
If we''d have played Sunderland under Di Canio at home then we also would have 10 points. Our youth team could have beat Sunderland at home under Di Canio.

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["The New Boy (Le Juge)"]Out of last seasons top 6. 


And 4 of the other 13 of our competitors. 


Chill out you muppets. 

 

 

 

 

 

Kingsway

 

 

 

Couldn''t agree more!

 

If we''d of got a draw yesterday it would of been an even more impressive result that Soton getting a draw at Man U cause Arsenal at the moment are better than ManU!

 

Chelsea last week was the same!

 

If we''re still struggling at the end of November after playing some of the weaker teams then will the time to seriously question Chris Hughton!

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You are right to a certain extent, Juge, but really, all this obsession with past games is not really much help. They are gone, done and dusted. All you can do as regards past failures is to learn from them.

And there''s the rub. There is a growing realisation that under the current setup we are NOT learning from past mistakes . The shipping of totally avoidable goals, esp late on. The ceding of posession unneccesarily. The failure to carve out more than a handful of half chances each game. The list goes on. In the end the ability or inability to act on this is what will make or break Hughton.

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3 more wins by the end of November which is doable looking at our upcoming fixtures and we''d likely be mid table!

 

It never ceases to amaze me how unrealistic so many Norwich fans are. This isn''t League 1 2009/10 or the Championship which is a hard League itself, we''re in one of the best Leagues on the planet and are playing against teams with the resources to buy players we can only dream off! 

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]You are right to a certain extent, Juge, but really, all this obsession with past games is not really much help. They are gone, done and dusted. All you can do as regards past failures is to learn from them.

And there''s the rub. There is a growing realisation that under the current setup we are NOT learning from past mistakes . The shipping of totally avoidable goals, esp late on. The ceding of posession unneccesarily. The failure to carve out more than a handful of half chances each game. The list goes on. In the end the ability or inability to act on this is what will make or break Hughton.[/quote]
I would really recommend that you walk into the club shop, spend some money on last seasons "season review" DVD, and then remind yourself of just how awful we were last season. 
Then remember it when you watch our next couple of games. It amazes me how people can''t see how much we have improved. We will hammer somebody soon. 

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["Reggie Strayshun"]You are right to a certain extent, Juge, but really, all this obsession with past games is not really much help. They are gone, done and dusted. All you can do as regards past failures is to learn from them. And there''s the rub. There is a growing realisation that under the current setup we are NOT learning from past mistakes . The shipping of totally avoidable goals, esp late on. The ceding of posession unneccesarily. The failure to carve out more than a handful of half chances each game. The list goes on. In the end the ability or inability to act on this is what will make or break Hughton.

 

I disagree!

 

I think we''ve become more positive in the last two games and the attacking elemnt of the team is getting better!

 

Hughton subbing Tetty for an attacking player in Hoolahan is something I don''t think he''done in the past. And even then it didn''t work!

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[

Already got said DVD, Juge. And , yes, a lot of it is pretty X rated viewing.

But, I''m just at a loss to see how you can say that recent results show an improvement. As for hammering someone.......well, maybe the team from E London of the same name would be good. Better still, Cardiff, next Sat. But I just don''t share your confidence.Sorry.

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The New Boy (Le Juge) wrote the following post at 2013-10-20 5:05 PM:

New Boy wtote:

Well if we take Hull out of that, then out of the other 4 then the same fixtures last season brought 4 points and this season have brought 7 points.

We lost to Chelsea at home last season, and we lost to Arsenal away last season.

Can''t see any reason to panic.

We have had two terrible performances out of eight in the league.

Oh FFS just what games have you actually watched this season NB?

Why leave Hull out of the equation: we were awful. We were awful at home to Villa, and lost. We managed a very lucky win against Southampton. And we scraped a draw v Everton because the ball hit RVW''s head, his ONE goal of the season. We were diabolical at Spurs, but marginally better v Chelsea and perhaps Arsenal, but we lost BOTH heavily. We do not score goals, and we have started to ship them defensively. Wake up and smell the coffee and get realistic. We are approaching a quarter of the season gone, we have 7 points, and go into next weeks game which is already a six pointer. We are not progressing at all, and you are deluded to state don''t panic, we cannot buy a win full stop. We have to forwards known for scoring goals, and they can''t, just as Holt couldn''t under the guidance of our manager and his coaching team. You cannot tell me that isn''t coincidence!?

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The nails has been hit on the head by some previous posters - Hull away, and Villa away were games we really let ourseves down in not Chelsea at home and Arsenal away!

 

Its not unrealistic to suggest we could of easily got 4 points from the Hull and Villa games and we''d be in mid table!

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Why is it that posters who claim that our finishing position last year was absolutely a true reflection of our abilities, pointing out frequently that the table doesn''t lie, and yet now we are in the bottom 3 they look for every lame excuse under the sun to try & make out that it isn''t a true reflection of our abilities and that we shouldn''t be there.

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Making Plans wrote the following post at 2013-10-20 8:01 PM:

Why is it that posters who claim that our finishing position last year was absolutely a true reflection of our abilities, pointing out frequently that the table doesn''t lie, and yet now we are in the bottom 3 they look for every lame excuse under the sun to try & make out that it isn''t a true reflection of our abilities and that we shouldn''t be there.

Spot on MP. Far too many green and yellow tinted glasses. I am not wanting to get into argument regarding Hughton in or out, but something has to change. We have one five in the last 28, and our struggles of last season have not gone away even with the addition of 27million ponds worth of new talent, which the boss suggests the majority of which was too arrest our lack of goals last season! It hasn''t, and doesn''t look like it will, and we are going backwards instead of forwards like our closest rivals. A sad situation but it exists, and that in truth gives the only true reflection of how things stand.

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Interesting that CUSDP and everyone expected us to beat Southampton, nobody else has managed it this season..even Man U at Old Trafford..funny how you can spin things to suit a viewpoint..

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[quote user="Reggie Strayshun"]But, I''m just at a loss to see how you can say that recent results show an improvement.[/quote]
I didn''t say results have improved, I said performances, although year-on-year our results have changed improved slightly. We can''t count Hull because we didn''t play them last season - but otherwise the same fixtures from last year yielded less points. 

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Right you neurotic neanderthal...
[quote user="City 2nd"] Oh FFS just what games have you actually watched this season NB? [/quote]
Every minute of every league game, no minutes of any cup game. 
[quote] Why leave Hull out of the equation: we were awful. [/quote]
 Because I was comparing this seasons results with the results in the fixtures last season and unless you were living in a cave last year or have senile dementia you will know that we didn''t get to play Hull in the league last season, because they were not in our league last season. But if you want a fair comparison then our first fixture was a 0-0 home draw with West Ham. If we replace Hull with West Ham then we still have better year-on-year results when looking at the same fixtures last season, we still have more points at this stage in the season than we did at this stage of the season last season, or this stage of the season under Lambert in his Premier League campaign. How many games have Hull lost at home this season? Go and look up the answer. 
[quote] We were awful at home to Villa, and lost. [/quote]
We had 64% of the bloody possession at home to Villa, completely dominated them for most of the game and just couldn''t stick the ball in the net. 
[quote] We managed a very lucky win against Southampton. [/quote]
No we didn''t, it was a tight match with end to end football and Southampton were a little unlucky to hit the post and had a penalty turned down. You can''t have things both ways - if we were lucky in that game then we were unlucky in the Villa game. Two very close games, we came out the winner in one of them. We competed in both games. Go and look where Southampton are in the table. We are the only team to beat them this season. 
[quote]  And we scraped a draw v Everton [/quote] 
We scored two goals and gained a point against a side which finished in the top 6 last season and are currently 7th in the table. 
[quote] because the ball hit RVW''s head, his ONE goal of the season. [/quote] 
Oh shut up. it was a quality header which Grant Holt wouldn''t have scored. 
[quote]  We were diabolical at Spurs [/quote] 
We agree on one thing, but we won''t be the last team to look diabolical at White Hart Lane this season. The problem with quality teams is that they make lesser teams look diabolic. Not just us, there are probably 14 teams at great risk of being made to look diabolical by a team who spent over £100m this season despite already having a top 6 side. 
[quote]  but marginally better v Chelsea [/quote] 
Absolutely 100% moronic statement which shows that you either don''t watch the games, or just don''t understand the game. 
[quote]  Wake up and smell the coffee and get realistic. We are approaching a quarter of the season gone, we have 7 points, and go into next weeks game which is already a six pointer. [/quote] 
You wake up and smell the coffee. We have had 8 games, 4 of which were against teams in the current top 6, another of which was against a team who finished in last seasons top 6, and one which was against a team lead by a manager who is always going to come to Carrow Road with a huge psychological advantage. We have had our best Premier League start since the first half of the 1990''s, have an away win already, are have dominated possession for the first time under Hughton - several times. We are a vastly improved team who will win plenty of games this season. We have won 2 of our games against the 4 teams which did not finish in the top 6 last season. You bloody smell the coffee you halfwit. 
[quote]  We are not progressing at all [/quote] 
Two words: Leroy Fer. 
[quote]  and you are deluded to state don''t panic, we cannot buy a win full stop. [/quote] 
What do you mean we can''t buy a win? Are you flipping serious? We have 2 wins in 8 games having had to play Tottenham, Chelsea, Arsenal and Everton. 
Lastly, can you explain your username, "City2nd"? It seems to imply that you consider Norwich your second team. Can you tell us who your first team are, and perhaps we can draw our own conclusions as to how that effects your expectations and how that hinders your ability to watch / pay attention to Norwich games?
I''m not accusing you of being an Ipswich fan, but if you were say a Liverpool fan first - you might be setting the bar of expectation a little high, and might be choosing to watch live streams of Liverpool games instead of Norwich games? Then relying on match of the day to form your perception of a match? 
Can you confirm that you have watched all of our games this season (with your eyes not your ears), either on a stream or live? I''d like to know, because it doesn''t sound like you have - you sound utterly clueless. 

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EDIT: "But if you want a fair comparison then our first fixture (with a promoted team) was a 0-0 home draw with West Ham"

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Equally Making Plans, you get people who insist that being in the bottom 3 after 8 games means everything, but that finishing 11th over a season means nothing.

I think Warren hit the nail on the head when he said that it''s funny how people can twist anything to suit their own viewpoint. The sad fact is that a lot of people would rather Hughton fails than succeeds so they win their own arguments, therefore refuse to see any positives in his contribution.

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Never have I agreed with a post as much as this. It seems as though city2nd views are mirrored by most Norwich fans at the moment.

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can''t agree with you more The new boy. Spot on mate. we really do have some pant wetters of fans at the minute. I have said it before I believe some fans really want hughton to go no matter what. we could go onto win the league cup and stay up people would still want him out. The love of paul lambert seems to be hanging over our club. I think its going to take a change of manager and a downspiral of results for fans to get behind a new man.

 

I really hope I am wrong. I think hughton is a quality manager and his signings particularly fer are class. We have bedded the new lads in now and we will start picking up them wins. We are playing a more expansive attacking game now as to last season.

 

Last season hughton did not trust his bench it was obvious. This season things are different. we now have a run of home games we should pick points up in. To say Cardiff is a must win and hughton goes if we don''t win is madness. Hughton should be given the season. He is slowly building a quality side.

 

Becareful what you wish. The grass is not always greener. We are playing well and will start picking up points.

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[quote user="Making Plans"]Why is it that posters who claim that our finishing position last year was absolutely a true reflection of our abilities, pointing out frequently that the table doesn''t lie, and yet now we are in the bottom 3 they look for every lame excuse under the sun to try & make out that it isn''t a true reflection of our abilities and that we shouldn''t be there.[/quote]
This. Nail firmly on head. It seems the rules only apply when those posters seem to say they do. If''s and buts matter not on a league table. I could have been rocket scientist if I did this and that, but I''m not. These posters just like to kid themselves.

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So Stoke away ''came out of the blue''?

To the fans it did, but let''s not conveniently leave Hughton out of this for a tremendous tactical job, at one of the toughest places in the league to get a win. shall we?

We are in the bottom three, and we deserve to be there because we haven''t accumulated enough points yet, to warrant a higher position, but you cannot use peoples opinions,as a stick to beat them, when comparing with last seasons FINISHING position

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]Everton. Winnable.

Hull. Winnable.

Southampton. Winnable.

Stoke. Winnable.

Villa. Winnable.

2 wins out of that lot isn''t a great return, when on paper we had one of the best starts we could''ve hoped for.

Everton, a new manger and players that need time to settle in. I''m being ironic btw

Hull, no excuse. 10 men and newly promoted.

Saints I and everyone else expected this.

Villa. Would''nt have scored if were were still playing them. Not kept a clean sheet in a million yrs but surprisingly v us they did.

Stoke. Saw a draw tbh. A win came out of the blue. Could say we "over achieved" such is our away expectation.[/quote]After their start to the season, that Southampton result is starting to look very good

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