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SeattleCanary

To clear up the "Hughton out" reasoning!

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[quote user="ref89"]He brought on Snodgrass at half time.  He is an attacking player you idiot.[quote user="alartz"]Chris houghton is the worst manager in the premier league.

Over an hour against a poor hull team with 10 men! Who never looked liked scoring.

An out and out striker on the bench ( becchio) 10 men for the best part of an hour. Never even think about bringing an attacking player until elmander after 70 mins.

Useless management needs to change. Crap performance can''t lose to crap like that[/quote][/quote]

Agreed Snoddy is. But not a lot of good us bringing on an attacking player who wasn''t allowed to really attack. Thats not mentioning the fact that the midfielders that were left on were still played out of position, and although a little naive at times, our best attacking outlet was subbed for Hooly. Why not have them both on the pitch? Tettey was awful as was Johnson. Sad when its against 10 men and a new side to the league. Would have at least liked to see us have a go!

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[quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="super canary"]SeattleCanary....my over exaggerated point is in response to the over exaggerated doom mongering by you and plenty of others after one bad performance. were you calling for CH to go at the end of last season? and who, as you think he should be ousted, would you like to see replace him?[/quote]

It isn''t over exaggerated. It''s warranted, fans are concerned and rightly so. I shall answer each of your points with sensible reasoning.

1. No i wasn''t calling for him to go last season, as even though he had 2 transfer windows, and still the team showed no signs of really beating a side, I believed that it was still a Lambert team and that the players were made to be playing a different style.

Last season we scored 41, and conceded 58 GD -17. The season before under Lambert we scored 52 and conceded 66 GD -14.

That isn''t a great improvement consider he is more "defensive" and his aim was to build from the back, but as many have said i saw it as a transitional season.

Now he has had his 3RD transfer window and it is predominantly his team playing, and they cannot string a pass, or create a chance, shoot at goal, cross the ball the list is ridiculously long for a Prem team, of what we are incapable of doing.

Genuinely I''d go for someone like Adkins. I believe he wouldn''t be so mild mannered and full of excuses, and blind to handicap players and play them against their strengths.

Just about anybody who is willing to try and win a game be it home or away, and not make ridiculous tactical choices.

I don''t get why you don''t understand what myself and many are saying, it should be blatantly obvious!?[/quote]

Oh i completely get what your saying, it''s just that your wrong.

You''ve seen one poor game THIS SEASON and your panicking.

I just feel like your one of these who is just waiting for an excuse to moan. Nothing personal.

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[quote user="super canary"][quote user="SeattleCanary"][quote user="super canary"]SeattleCanary....my over exaggerated point is in response to the over exaggerated doom mongering by you and plenty of others after one bad performance. were you calling for CH to go at the end of last season? and who, as you think he should be ousted, would you like to see replace him?[/quote]

It isn''t over exaggerated. It''s warranted, fans are concerned and rightly so. I shall answer each of your points with sensible reasoning.

1. No i wasn''t calling for him to go last season, as even though he had 2 transfer windows, and still the team showed no signs of really beating a side, I believed that it was still a Lambert team and that the players were made to be playing a different style.

Last season we scored 41, and conceded 58 GD -17. The season before under Lambert we scored 52 and conceded 66 GD -14.

That isn''t a great improvement consider he is more "defensive" and his aim was to build from the back, but as many have said i saw it as a transitional season.

Now he has had his 3RD transfer window and it is predominantly his team playing, and they cannot string a pass, or create a chance, shoot at goal, cross the ball the list is ridiculously long for a Prem team, of what we are incapable of doing.

Genuinely I''d go for someone like Adkins. I believe he wouldn''t be so mild mannered and full of excuses, and blind to handicap players and play them against their strengths.

Just about anybody who is willing to try and win a game be it home or away, and not make ridiculous tactical choices.

I don''t get why you don''t understand what myself and many are saying, it should be blatantly obvious!?[/quote]

Oh i completely get what your saying, it''s just that your wrong.

You''ve seen one poor game THIS SEASON and your panicking.

I just feel like your one of these who is just waiting for an excuse to moan. Nothing personal.[/quote]

Just goes to show how much you have about you. There is no such thing as wrong when you are talking about opinions, otherwise i''d say you are wrong wouldn''t I!

I am in fact not wrong, it''s just I see it that it isn''t ONE GAME. it is the 2nd game this season, but it is a brand of football which has entered its 40TH LEAGUE GAME, how have I not been patient? There wasn''t even a glimmer of light today for the next week.

If that was against Chelski I''d be saying the same, as it wasn''t about the opposition, it was about ourselves. You are just an idiot.

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What annoys me the most is we have SUCH A GREAT TEAMOn paper we look so strongI must admit i''m drifting (gradually) towards questioning why some of the tactical decisions he makes are being made

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I must admit i''m drifting (gradually) towards questioning why some of the tactical decisions he makes are being made

Well you got there in the end Reading, it''s no different to what''s been going on since Christmas!

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[quote user="Vanwink"]I must admit i''m drifting (gradually) towards questioning why some of the tactical decisions he makes are being made

Well you got there in the end Reading, it''s no different to what''s been going on since Christmas![/quote]It just puzzles me. Hughton at Newcastle was brilliant. He wasn''t half bad at Birmingham eitherWe have such a great team... yet the full potential of the team isn''t being used

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[quote user="ReadingCanary"][quote user="Vanwink"]I must admit i''m drifting (gradually) towards questioning why some of the tactical decisions he makes are being made

Well you got there in the end Reading, it''s no different to what''s been going on since Christmas![/quote]It just puzzles me. Hughton at Newcastle was brilliant. He wasn''t half bad at Birmingham eitherWe have such a great team... yet the full potential of the team isn''t being used [/quote]

I agree. It''s so weird. Almsot like he supports Ipsh!t secretly or something :(

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Reading,

I was slated end of last season for saying that Hughton was a poor leader and man manager, but in my mind that is undoubtedly his weakness. Add that to a lack of tactical nouse and its not a prize winning combination.

There is a distinct lack of motivation in the sides he puts out, most noticeably away from home, I don''t believe he has the ability to get players playing at their best. It was clear post Christmas and only a Herculean effort by the players in the last couple of games saved us. Believe the spin that others will put on last season but that''s my take.

I hoped he would have learned from last seasons failings but unfortunately, even with better players ,it appears to be same old so far.

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[quote user="Vanwink"]Reading,

I was slated end of last season for saying that Hughton was a poor leader and man manager, but in my mind that is undoubtedly his weakness. Add that to a lack of tactical nouse and its not a prize winning combination.

There is a distinct lack of motivation in the sides he puts out, most noticeably away from home, I don''t believe he has the ability to get players playing at their best. It was clear post Christmas and only a Herculean effort by the players in the last couple of games saved us. Believe the spin that others will put on last season but that''s my take.

I hoped he would have learned from last seasons failings but unfortunately, even with better players ,it appears to be same old so far.[/quote]You see that''s what I find strangerHughton at Newcastle managed to turn Barton into a really good player. He also managed to get the best out of Andy Carroll if i''m not mistaken.He bought well and managed to play good football while creating a really close group of playersYet here the attacking football almost seems forced during our matchesI''m confused !!!

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[quote user="Vanwink"]Reading,

I was slated end of last season for saying that Hughton was a poor leader and man manager, but in my mind that is undoubtedly his weakness. Add that to a lack of tactical nouse and its not a prize winning combination.

There is a distinct lack of motivation in the sides he puts out, most noticeably away from home, I don''t believe he has the ability to get players playing at their best. It was clear post Christmas and only a Herculean effort by the players in the last couple of games saved us. Believe the spin that others will put on last season but that''s my take.

I hoped he would have learned from last seasons failings but unfortunately, even with better players ,it appears to be same old so far.[/quote]So in a nutshell, the players are responsible for our wins and Hughton is responsible for the defeats?

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Explaining the apparent change can only be done by him, I don''t know enough detail about his time at Brum or Newcastle, or the particular circumstances he had to deal with with players individually or as a collective, but what I do know is what I have seen here.

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The biggest problem seems to be his stubbornness. I''ve never seen a manager so doggedly stick to a style of play that has repeatedly failed him, at the very least, away from home.

Looking at it logically, Hughton must be happy with the points he is getting from away games and therefore does not feel he need''s to change the style of play as he does not need to change the results. If that''s the case Mr McNally needs to have a word as the results are unacceptable.

The other option is that he and his coaches are not happy with the away results, yet are incapable of coaching the players to play a different style, in which case, Mr McNally needs to consider whether they are competent enough to lead our club.

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I can''t put it in a nutshell Ricardo, but I do genuinely believe that the players tactically had a much greater influence in the last 2 games than they had done previously.

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I was not excited by Hughton''s appointment, I have been unhappy with his management style pretty much from the word go but I don''t think he should be sacked at least until the window has shut.Really if things look no better after 5 league games he should be kicked to the curb but having decided to keep him here after last season he must be given a handful of games.That said, I have less than no confidence in the guy.

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The look on Wolfwinkel''s face towards the end said it all, being a forward in our team over the last 2 seasons is a thankless task, its no surprise that Holt felt the need to come out and defend his corner. I fear that RVW is going to be seen as an expensive flop through no fault of his own. If our style of play doesn''t change then we will be seeing more transfer requests handed in, no forward wants to feed on scraps the way ours have to.

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Thing is we have David McNallyCan''t see him sitting back and allowing us to drop down a league (not that I think we will)Especially after having spent nearly 30m

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Thankfully, the one area Hughton has excelled in is recruitment. Our signings have been excellent so it''s not as if we''ve given the war chest to a bad manager who then wastes it on bad players. If he goes, a new manager has some pretty good tools to work with. It''s just an inadequate tactical and coaching set up that is making these players play poorly.

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[quote user="Vanwink"]I can''t put it in a nutshell Ricardo, but I do genuinely believe that the players tactically had a much greater influence in the last 2 games than they had done previously.[/quote]So basically you are saying that when we win its because they ignore the managers instructions.So why don''t they ignore his instructions every game and keep picking up the win bonus?

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We shouldn''t put to much focus on those last 2 games of the season. West brom had nothing to play for and the manager by his own admission was trying different ideas. Man city had just sacked their manager and clearly were on the beach.

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They are professional footballers, they do their job and hopefully most of the time do what their told, but things were desperate end of last season and in those circumstances I believe things changed a bit.

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[quote user="JF"]We shouldn''t put to much focus on those last 2 games of the season. West brom had nothing to play for and the manager by his own admission was trying different ideas. Man city had just sacked their manager and clearly were on the beach.[/quote]

Exactly. And i do not wish to be negative but I felt that for the majority of the unbeaten run we really got the rub of the green. we rode our luck.

The Wigan home game I felt we were fortunate to win in the end, much like the Sunderland game. We got a 2-0 lead and almost threw it away (almost like Reading and Swansea away). Even the 0-0 with Newcastle and Reading away could have easily been wins or loses, but with our approach the likely hold of winning is less as we set ourselves up tactically to do ourselves no favours!

I feel if we do get a foothold in a game, we almost sit back too much and don''t then really exploit teams.

You stay in the league by getting points. You get points by winning games. You can''t win if you don''t score goals. You don''t score goals unless you shoot. You can''t shoot unless you attack. You can''t attack if you can''t keep the ball and pass and be creative. If you create, pass, attack, shoot, score, win games and collect points... guess what happens..... THE ANTI-HUGHTON!!

Pot luck may not see us through this season if we carry on as we have so eloquently set out.

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I have no idea who we would bring in, but it isn''t my job to, we have a guy earning a ridiculous amount of money to make those decisions and i would be amazed if in his mind he hasn''t got a shortlist of managerial targets in case we need to. I think we need to go all out for a creative midfielder before the deadline cos we are just lacking that flair/ creativity in the final 3rd. It''s bizaar really, we are so close to being a decent outfit but there is something lacking.

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I said at the end of last season I was willing to give Hughton the first 6 or so games this season to convince me he is the manager to take Norwich forward and I stand by that.

However after watching the first two games the signs are ominous.

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I''ve made my thoughts clear on our tactics post Christmas several times, but whilst today was hugely frustrating/disappointing it''s way too early to be calling for a manager.

He''s just been backed with the biggest budget the club has ever seen, and as far as I can tell he''s spent it wisely. We''ve got to give him time to get it right and improve.

Whilst today I didn''t think it was necessary to play 2 holding midfielders and we were playing Fer, Howson and Cafu all out of position, he wasn''t helped by the fact that many of our players forgot how to pass the bloody football. I don''t think you can really blame him for that.

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