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Making Plans

Have we not learnt nothing from last season

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1. Despite some new players with potential coming in not a lot has changed since last season. All the old failings were on display again today and it would appear that nothing has been done over the summer to address these failings - lack of intensity, lack of pace, poor passing, poor crosses, poor shooting, lack of support to the front man. What does Hughton & his coaching staff actually do from Monday to Friday?2. We still have regular first team players who are not up to it & leading the list are Tettey & Garrido. Tettey''s passing ability is zero & his shooting ability is even worse. Why we actually paid good money for Garrido is beyond me. Others rapidly creeping up the "not good enough table" are Johnson & Turner. Fox must be absolutely bewildered as to why he cannot get as much as a sniff of a chance in the first team.3. Even though we finished 11th last season, in reality we escaped relegation by the skin of our teeth. Quite simply we were unable to put away potentially weaker or off form opposition when the opportunity presented itself. Same again today - what should have been a relatively easy 3 points were squandered by poor team selection, negative tactics in the first half & poor and/or too late substitutions. That game was there for the taking as soon as Hull went down to 10 men but once again we failed to up our game or make changes soon enough (i.e. immediately). It''s been well documented that we need to be safe before the last 4 games of the season but if we turn in many more performances like today''s then we''ll be gone by Xmas and there will be no "get out of jail free" card this season.4. For Grant Holt last season read RVW or Hooper this season. Holt had his critics, and rightly so on ocassions, but the reality is that any centre forward relies on service & support if he is to be effective. There was virtually none of that in evidence today even against 10 men. I can''t see this changing anytime soon as we are currently stuck in a tactical rut.   5. Even though it was a game we could have lost, any promise, confidence & momentum gained in last weeks game against Everton has been quickly been turned in negativity & doubt. And in this league negativity & doubt only takes you one way. 6. We have no attacking ideas at all when Hoolahan doesn''t play & yet, even after his good, but not brilliant, performance last week he''s the first one dropped. We do not have another playmaker that comes close & when he doesn''t play, or when he has an off day, we never look like breaking through defences and creating chances on a regular basis. Quite simply, he has to be in the starting line up every week.

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He went for a draw.

Difficult to accept but he did.

When they went a goal up and a man down the mind-set was already instilled. We were incapable.

Pathetic doesn''t sum of that total dross.

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Funny how people see things !Although I dont disagree with your title OP I find some of your points a bit crazy.Garrido - There was a clause in his loan contract regarding purchase if certain games played was met. This happend so we were obliged to buy him. Have you forgotten that he actually had a cracking game against Everton as well ?Tettey - I belive ( someone will correct me ) Tettey scored a scorcher for us from distance so is well capable. He just looked like a faulty cog in a machine today. But regard that word, machine.Hooper / RvW / Holt - Yup Houghton doesnt obviously like strikers and he will increase the fan pressure on these players as they struggle to actually get into a game. Its the tactics not the players, we could have had Messi up there today and he would have struggled to get much out of the game. I think one of our faults is our reliance on wing build up and crossing. Hoots shackles his midfield who generally play very deep. This stops anything building through the middle. Again, Tactics , Tactics Tactics !!Wes - Hes getting more and more in consistant. I think many of us now see why he was not poached from under our noses or in the Ireland team more frequently. In a good day Wes is a world beater. On a bad hes a game breaker. Under Hoots we more often see the game breaker. He will get the ball spin circles and lose it or his final ball is terrible. Might be down to tactics again or it might be down to him just simply loosing it ?Fox - For crying out loud.. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. End of seriously.

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OK so we had to buy Garrido but we don''t have to play him. He doesn''t convince me either defensively or as an attacker. And why they let him take so many free kicks is a mystery as invariably they come to nothing.OK so Tettey has scored for us once. Hardly a blinding record. Hooper/RvW/Holt - looks like we agreeWes - looks like we disagreeFox - I never said he was good enough. What I was intimating was that he probably thinks he''s as good as some that we''ve got who get picked regularly & I for one wouldn''t disagree with him.

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[quote user="BroadstairsR"]He went for a draw.

Difficult to accept but he did.

When they went a goal up and a man down the mind-set was already instilled. We were incapable.

Pathetic doesn''t sum of that total dross.[/quote]

Exactly this.

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Just clear something up for me, when was it exactly that Fox became not good enough?

Was it when he supplied the ammunition to get us out of the Championship?

Or was it when he had the highest percentage of successful crosses in the Premier League and was voted our 3rd best player by our own fans?

Or was it when he sat on his arse for a year?

Just curious.

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]Just clear something up for me, when was it exactly that Fox became not good enough?

Was it when he supplied the ammunition to get us out of the Championship?

Or was it when he had the highest percentage of successful crosses in the Premier League and was voted our 3rd best player by our own fans?

Or was it when he sat on his arse for a year?

Just curious.[/quote]Exactly

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"I think t was when we signed Howson because Fox has not been first choice since then"

I''m pretty sure Fox played regularly after Howson was brought in in the January

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1. Totally agree. This has been true for more or less his entire reign. It doesn''t matter how much money you spend and who you bring in, if the manager won''t change his tactics then the result is going to be the same. Away from home we have been a total embarrassment under Hughton and I don''t think that will change any time soon.

2. I agree that Garrido is suspect and should be replaced by Olson. I like Johnson but, like Tettey he has limitations. You can''t play these two together, atleast not against poorer sides like Hull where you will get more of the ball and therefore need a player in the middle who can pass the ball. Completely disagree on Turner. After a terrible start he has become one of the first names on the teamsheet for me. He doesn''t rate Fox, so may as well get rid.

3. Agree. 11th flattered us massively. He sets up away from home for a 0-0, regardless of who we are playing. Don''t think we would have failed to score today under Lambert. 1 upfront, never threw men forward. If today is anything to go by, we will have to get a lot of points at home.

4. It''s going to be tough for Hooper or RVW up there. Zero service. Redmond has looked lively but always looks to come inside. Same problem with Snodgrass, who I believe is wildly overrated. Lacks pace, doesn''t get to the byline and attempts to fall over constantly.

5. This is because he always sets up to not lose. Look back at his time here and look at how many games we have lost 1-0 away from home against garbage and drawn 0-0. He is tactically beyond clueless.

6. Hoolahan last week was woeful. Total passenger and didn''t make life difficult for Fellani at all. However, I do agree that he is often necessary to have on because he can create chances. I would start him sometimes and bring him on as an impact player sometimes. at 31 his days are numbered.

People are saying you can''t get so negative after 2 matches, but the same problems exist as last season. We are putting way too much pressure on our home form. The board have backed themselves into a corner. You can''t give a bloke 25m to spend and then sack him after a few matches, but the football is so boring and ineffective I''m not sure how much longer we persist with him. Even his biggest defender would have to admit today against Hull was a pathetic embarrassment.

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No not really Morty, I just really rate the guy and get frustrated when he''s dismissed so easily. Think he'' have helped us keep the ball better today, which would have helped build some sustained pressure which would hopefully have led to some chances. We rarely switch play without him in the side, which doesn''t help with the predictability issue. I''m not saying he''s the greatest player in the world but I still think he has something to offer us in certain situations that no one else in the squad does.

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]No not really Morty, I just really rate the guy and get frustrated when he''s dismissed so easily. Think he'' have helped us keep the ball better today, which would have helped build some sustained pressure which would hopefully have led to some chances. We rarely switch play without him in the side, which doesn''t help with the predictability issue. I''m not saying he''s the greatest player in the world but I still think he has something to offer us in certain situations that no one else in the squad does.[/quote]When did he last appear in the first team?Personally I think he played best at the base of the diamond, I think he''s too lightweight to do a job in the current system.

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Garrido is being exposed by Redmond who keeps coming inside. His average position versus Everton legitimately was inside the centre circle. Why is Redmond not being told to stick to his wing?

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I don''t think his physique would have been an issue today, but his passing and creativity might have helped unlock that defence.

Other than a few cup games I think he got a few minutes when Johnson went off with a knock at Arsenal in the league, and I think he had about 10 minutes in a league game before Christmas too, but other than that I can''t recall him being involved under Hughton.

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Not just about what we''ve learnt it''s also about what the opposition have learnt about us.

 

A couple of new players here and there but it doesn''t look like we have changed too much the way we play. We''re predictable.

 

Sorry to do this to the guy but Bradley Johnson is the best example. We all know his limitations. He''s a decent, solid sort of player but he''s not overly mobile and he''s not particularly dynamic. He plays every game though.

 

Hoolahan is a bit the same too. While he''s a totally different type of player to Johnson he has been in the Norwich team for most of the last 4 or 5 years. People know what to expect.

 

Just trying something a little different.

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[quote user="Mr Brownstone"]I don''t think his physique would have been an issue today, but his passing and creativity might have helped unlock that defence.

Other than a few cup games I think he got a few minutes when Johnson went off with a knock at Arsenal in the league, and I think he had about 10 minutes in a league game before Christmas too, but other than that I can''t recall him being involved under Hughton.[/quote]I was at the game and frankly people have underestimated just how well Hull defended for their win.I don''t think even Fox would have been able to pick his way through the orange and black wall!

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--- morty said: When did he last appear in the first team?

I think he was a mainstay of the side that finished 12th in the premiership in 11-12. He has not featured since.

As for the current cautious negative system, playing lots of defensive midfielders with no range of passing. It clearly has its limitations against weaker opposition.

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[quote user="Making Plans"]1. Despite some new players with potential coming in not a lot has changed since last season. All the old failings were on display again today and it would appear that nothing has been done over the summer to address these failings - lack of intensity, lack of pace, poor passing, poor crosses, poor shooting, lack of support to the front man. What does Hughton & his coaching staff actually do from Monday to Friday?2. We still have regular first team players who are not up to it & leading the list are Tettey & Garrido. Tettey''s passing ability is zero & his shooting ability is even worse. Why we actually paid good money for Garrido is beyond me. Others rapidly creeping up the "not good enough table" are Johnson & Turner. Fox must be absolutely bewildered as to why he cannot get as much as a sniff of a chance in the first team.3. Even though we finished 11th last season, in reality we escaped relegation by the skin of our teeth. Quite simply we were unable to put away potentially weaker or off form opposition when the opportunity presented itself. Same again today - what should have been a relatively easy 3 points were squandered by poor team selection, negative tactics in the first half & poor and/or too late substitutions. That game was there for the taking as soon as Hull went down to 10 men but once again we failed to up our game or make changes soon enough (i.e. immediately). It''s been well documented that we need to be safe before the last 4 games of the season but if we turn in many more performances like today''s then we''ll be gone by Xmas and there will be no "get out of jail free" card this season.4. For Grant Holt last season read RVW or Hooper this season. Holt had his critics, and rightly so on ocassions, but the reality is that any centre forward relies on service & support if he is to be effective. There was virtually none of that in evidence today even against 10 men. I can''t see this changing anytime soon as we are currently stuck in a tactical rut.   5. Even though it was a game we could have lost, any promise, confidence & momentum gained in last weeks game against Everton has been quickly been turned in negativity & doubt. And in this league negativity & doubt only takes you one way. 6. We have no attacking ideas at all when Hoolahan doesn''t play & yet, even after his good, but not brilliant, performance last week he''s the first one dropped. We do not have another playmaker that comes close & when he doesn''t play, or when he has an off day, we never look like breaking through defences and creating chances on a regular basis. Quite simply, he has to be in the starting line up every week.[/quote]

We have certainly all learnt, as fans that is 1, don''t shout at CH or scream, cry or plead with him!! As it won''t change a thing. We''ve learnt that at 75-80mins there will defo be a like for like substitution. We''ve also learnt that we should repect every team as they''re all far better than us and were very very lucky that were allowed to play with them. Yayy thankyou big clubs ( all clap).

The good news is McNally will have learnt things went to far to change manager by the time their was real possible danger there would be no time for a new manager to learn the squad. YES we finished in 11th was it as comfortable as an 11th place finish should be NO! I just want us to throw everything at em in the last 10-15 mins regardless who they were and their manager, that courage that fight. I''m bloody yearning for them times again.

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You have to ask just what is being done in training during the. Week by CHs training team. It would seem that a lot of the problem stems from them rather than Hoots.

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[quote user="star_manic"]You have to ask just what is being done in training during the. Week by CHs training team. It would seem that a lot of the problem stems from them rather than Hoots.[/quote]

He should know exactly what''s happening in training and if he doesn''t, then why doesn''t he. Also its ok blaming the training but its him making like for like subs when we should just bloody go for it. Such as today against a bag of shwit, 10man hull side. Managed by super steve who''s so great Gary Linaker fancied a 1 on 1 chat with him after our game lol. Come on city let''s have that hunger,desire and the belief we could beat anyone anywhere

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