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Capt_Canary

Sack Hughton, Lets Do A Southampton

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

But didn''t we finish above Southampton?

 

 

[/quote]

Adkins sacked January 18th:

Norwich 13th on 26 pts

Saints 15th on 22 pts

Season finish:

Norwich 11th on 44 pts

Saints 14th on 41 pts

So had we not have beaten Man City they would have finished above us. And we finished just 5 points off 17th, we had a deceivingly good end to an almost disastrous season.

Where they are growing and improving I feel we are going backwards, trying to nick games 1-0 or by the odd goal. Is this really the kind of way you want to see our team play having 4 or 5 shots at goal a game?

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Do you think it would be possible to get everyone on this board to agree two things:

A) 3 wins in 21 games is relegation form.

B) we did beat West Brom and Man City.

Every argument seems to end up with one side denying or suggesting one is irrelevant while championing the other.

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Monty13 wrote:

"Do you think it would be possible to get everyone on this board to agree two things:

A) 3 wins in 21 games is relegation form.

B) we did beat West Brom and Man City.

Every argument seems to end up with one side denying or suggesting one is irrelevant while championing the other"

Fair enough Monty, at the end of the day you cannot argue with the facts. I think my overall feeling is I just want us to try, that is all. I do not hate Hughton, I was mad today. I just want him to give something else a go now, as your "B" point suggests his current approach is delivering a great return is it!

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It''s nice to vent a spleen or two but this is not going to happen. The board haven''t spent 25 million just to give the job to someone who would want their own players in.

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obviously we would have to line up a replacement in advance who would come in knowing they would have to more or less work with the squad hughton had assembled , i don''t think that is too much of an ask? its no different to when gunn got binned off,  we have a very decent squad just a crap manager.

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Hughton has had three transfer windows he is building our squad,, his squad and no question his acquisitions have been superb. I think tettey will still show some worth although fer is incredible in comparison.

I think it shows when we look at the guys we had playing in the championship, first season in the prem look lesser than those brought in. As they should but the gulf is huge.

Hughton has the rest of this window which he did deserve, after the Liverpool home game he did say our philosophy had to change and he was right we were struggling.

I think when we have a fully fit team, hopefully two new acquisitions, attacking midfielder and centre half we can then judge. But as mentioned you need somebody lined up and you need a lot of games, do not leave it with half the season to go. I think if it was our fully fit first team I would have been even more appalled and worried. But I do think after 10-12 games we will see our best players in and some of our squad players back as squad players fighting for places on the bench. We need depth and in certain positions we are beginning to have it, a plan b is now on the bench, but not enough.

Bring on those new signings and our philosophy should change if not after 10-12 games and things are going sour it will be hard work for another season for Hughton to keep his role.

I am sure he is worried after that performance that those players he is talking with to come here, must now come in. He did do that after the Fulham game and I think think this game was as watershed for this season for our lacklustre midfield thereof Howson, tettey and Johnson. They need to perform in the cup game and in the Southampton game.

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[quote user="Monty13"]Do you think it would be possible to get everyone on this board to agree two things:

A) 3 wins in 21 games is relegation form.

B) we did beat West Brom and Man City.

Every argument seems to end up with one side denying or suggesting one is irrelevant while championing the other.[/quote]19 points from the last 19 games was indeed disappointing but still not relegation form and where this three wins stuff keeps coming from is a mystery. I suggest you look at the stats. There were 4 wins and 3 draws in the final dozen games of the season.

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The most startling thing for me is that people still cling to the notion that Hughton will change the way we play.

He wont, it matters not a jot, who he brings in, how good they are, he will stifle there play with his over cautious negative play. Home or away, he has about as much flair as a dead duck.

The Hughton outers new this last season, we know it this season. It was amazing yesterday, i really wanted to see Grant holt on the pitch, but he done the right thing walking away, strikers will never get the service they need to flourish under Hughton.

He has been given EVERYTHING he needs, yet we are still serving up the same mentality as last season. i wonder how long it will take for him to kill off Redmonds enthusiasm, looks like he already has with Ricky :-(

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[quote user="MyGodWeArePoorToWatch"]The most startling thing for me is that people still cling to the notion that Hughton will change the way we play. He wont, it matters not a jot, who he brings in, how good they are, he will stifle there play with his over cautious negative play. Home or away, he has about as much flair as a dead duck. The Hughton outers new this last season, we know it this season. It was amazing yesterday, i really wanted to see Grant holt on the pitch, but he done the right thing walking away, strikers will never get the service they need to flourish under Hughton. He has been given EVERYTHING he needs, yet we are still serving up the same mentality as last season. i wonder how long it will take for him to kill off Redmonds enthusiasm, looks like he already has with Ricky :-([/quote]

 

He did look peed off yesterday.

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[quote user="Wiz"]

[quote user="MyGodWeArePoorToWatch"]The most startling thing for me is that people still cling to the notion that Hughton will change the way we play. He wont, it matters not a jot, who he brings in, how good they are, he will stifle there play with his over cautious negative play. Home or away, he has about as much flair as a dead duck. The Hughton outers new this last season, we know it this season. It was amazing yesterday, i really wanted to see Grant holt on the pitch, but he done the right thing walking away, strikers will never get the service they need to flourish under Hughton. He has been given EVERYTHING he needs, yet we are still serving up the same mentality as last season. i wonder how long it will take for him to kill off Redmonds enthusiasm, looks like he already has with Ricky :-([/quote]

 

He did look peed off yesterday.

[/quote]

As did every other player, because we lost a game. That''s how competitive players work.

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Hughton has bought well the problem is he works with these players every day and still doesn''t know their strengths and weaknesses , which is criminal , how come the average fan knows the best midfield and how they all fit yet the manager doesn''t , just seems he throws names up in the air and picks the team based on how they fall .

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[quote user="MyGodWeArePoorToWatch"]The most startling thing for me is that people still cling to the notion that Hughton will change the way we play.

He wont, it matters not a jot, who he brings in, how good they are, he will stifle there play with his over cautious negative play. Home or away, he has about as much flair as a dead duck.

The Hughton outers new this last season, we know it this season. It was amazing yesterday, i really wanted to see Grant holt on the pitch, but he done the right thing walking away, strikers will never get the service they need to flourish under Hughton.

He has been given EVERYTHING he needs, yet we are still serving up the same mentality as last season. i wonder how long it will take for him to kill off Redmonds enthusiasm, looks like he already has with Ricky :-([/quote]

Shocking grammar.

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Apologies Ricardo it was 4 wins in 21 (I forgot the Everton result).

19 points in 19 games would not have been relegation form last season thanks to Wigan but in average PL season finishing on 38 points would mean relegation.

My point was there seems to be a constant argument that if we had not won those last two games we could have been in trouble, that''s true but we did. There also seems to be a flat refusal to look at our form across anything other than an entire seasons games (our finishing position) when actually half a season is very good indication of how well we are playing.

I''m sure many will be advocating a number of games they think Hughton should be given this year to prove himself, so there is an acknowledgement that you can judge a team and a managers performance on a run of games.

I like Hughton I want to see him and therefore Norwich succeed, but I don''t want to see a hull performance when I turn up to the Southampton game and if we struggle this year after the investment I won''t be as happy as I was last year just to be safe by any means.

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[quote user="Monty13"]Apologies Ricardo it was 4 wins in 21 (I forgot the Everton result).

19 points in 19 games would not have been relegation form last season thanks to Wigan but in average PL season finishing on 38 points would mean relegation.

My point was there seems to be a constant argument that if we had not won those last two games we could have been in trouble, that''s true but we did. There also seems to be a flat refusal to look at our form across anything other than an entire seasons games (our finishing position) when actually half a season is very good indication of how well we are playing.

I''m sure many will be advocating a number of games they think Hughton should be given this year to prove himself, so there is an acknowledgement that you can judge a team and a managers performance on a run of games.

I like Hughton I want to see him and therefore Norwich succeed, but I don''t want to see a hull performance when I turn up to the Southampton game and if we struggle this year after the investment I won''t be as happy as I was last year just to be safe by any means.[/quote]Good stuff[Y]

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[quote user="Monty13"]Apologies Ricardo it was 4 wins in 21 (I forgot the Everton result).

19 points in 19 games would not have been relegation form last season thanks to Wigan but in average PL season finishing on 38 points would mean relegation.

My point was there seems to be a constant argument that if we had not won those last two games we could have been in trouble, that''s true but we did. There also seems to be a flat refusal to look at our form across anything other than an entire seasons games (our finishing position) when actually half a season is very good indication of how well we are playing.

I''m sure many will be advocating a number of games they think Hughton should be given this year to prove himself, so there is an acknowledgement that you can judge a team and a managers performance on a run of games.

I like Hughton I want to see him and therefore Norwich succeed, but I don''t want to see a hull performance when I turn up to the Southampton game and if we struggle this year after the investment I won''t be as happy as I was last year just to be safe by any means.[/quote]Again, Monty, I ask you to look at the facts. 38 points has been enough to keep you up in all but 4 seasons since the Premier League format has been 38 games.We have already dispensed with this theory that our second half of the season was much worse than anyone else. WBA, Stoke, Sunderland, QPR,Reading all did worse.Despite our increased investment there are still plenty of clubs with deeper pockets than us. Southampton is one of them so anyone expecting anything other than a hard struggle for the points really needs to take off their yellow tinted specs. The Premier League will always be a struggle for a club of our size and the success of the last 4 years is an aberration, NOT THE NORM. That is the history and those are the facts and no amount of wishful thinking is going to change it.

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Voice of reason from Ricardo, just as the bbc article above says about water finding its level over the long term and NCFC''s level post sky has been mainly championship and no manager can change that reality over the long term. It only requires a basic uderstanding of probabilities or just commonsense which unfortunately many on here don''t have either.

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adkins was sacked with a replacement to hand.

who do we propose?

plenty of time yet and it was one game.

Bassong, hooper, pilks and a fit snoddy will change the complexion again.

as will signing another decent cm.

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Ahhh again maybe I need to apologise, not being bothered to work it out myself I had looked at an article that had simply stated the average number of points required to survive since the 20 teams was 38.6 so therefore I had took 38 to not be enough.

Maybe I have also not explained myself properly, I very much expect this season to be another struggle (It was a poorly articulated choice of words before), however I do expect us to survive.

The manner of our survival though is up for debate and thats where I meant if we struggle (ie. to beat our rivals such as Southampton at home). It is entirely possible to survive in this league playing better football than we did on average last year, we now have at least some of the puzzle pieces to do that.

I''m not expecting Norwich to challenge for European places and I am expecting us to be in amongst it (but hopefully comfortably safe again) and I''m happy with that, I know these are the good times and I see them as such. But while I''ll except stagnation or regression in our league position I don''t want to see that continue in the way we play.

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