Johnson

[Downloads 35]

I don''t normally create threads in this place given the drama that follows but I wanted to ask a footballing question and hopefully some fans of Johnson will reply.

 

I feel like we''ve had a few of these players over the years and they are always fan favourites because everyone loves a player who gives 110%. How could anyone not love that attribute. He runs all day and on balance probably makes more tackles than anyone else in midfield.

 

But is that enough?

 

Can we afford to have a midfielder in the team who''s passing isn''t good? He''s definitely improved his passing, but its still one of the worst in the team. Does a team have to have a player who clears up after everyone anyway? Especially if they don''t offer much else. I feel like he''s a much upgraded Hughes personally. When a player in midfield ends up the worst passer in the team playing against 10 men, surely something is wrong?

 

I know stats aren''t everything and don''t give a full picture, but surely even if they are a little bit right, then he shouldn''t be playing?

 

Incidentally, his defensive stats aren''t really better than anyone elses over the last 2 games.

 

I believe the central defensive pairing should be Fer and Howson next game and believe they are good enough and have decent enough footballing brains to be able to do this. Tettey knows how to pass a football so maybe keep him there and just don''t let him into the final third.

[funny old game 1]

[quote user="Downloads"]

I don''t normally create threads in this place given the drama that follows but I wanted to ask a footballing question and hopefully some fans of Johnson will reply.

 

I feel like we''ve had a few of these players over the years and they are always fan favourites because everyone loves a player who gives 110%. How could anyone not love that attribute. He runs all day and on balance probably makes more tackles than anyone else in midfield.

Tettey couldn''t pass a spongy stool!

 

But is that enough?

 

Can we afford to have a midfielder in the team who''s passing isn''t good? He''s definitely improved his passing, but its still one of the worst in the team. Does a team have to have a player who clears up after everyone anyway? Especially if they don''t offer much else. I feel like he''s a much upgraded Hughes personally. When a player in midfield ends up the worst passer in the team playing against 10 men, surely something is wrong?

 

I know stats aren''t everything and don''t give a full picture, but surely even if they are a little bit right, then he shouldn''t be playing?

 

Incidentally, his defensive stats aren''t really better than anyone elses over the last 2 games.

 

I believe the central defensive pairing should be Fer and Howson next game and believe they are good enough and have decent enough footballing brains to be able to do this. Tettey knows how to pass a football so maybe keep him there and just don''t let him into the final third.

[/quote]

[Move Klose 303]

I just think his job is breaking up play, hassling opposition, putting pressure on and putting tackles in and protecting the back four. Win the ball and pass it to the more "technical" players. I think he does his job well for the level and standard we are at.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- Eadie4England said: Win the ball and pass it to the more "technical" players.

I think this is the crux of our problems in central midfield. Johnson does not have a "technical player" to his right who he can pass the ball to, and who will then be able to make the key forward pass.

Hopefully once Fer is installer in alongside him, he will be the man to do this job.

If yesterday and pre-season are anything to go by, it looks like the Hoot has earmarked the off-striker position for him. Sadly, like with Howson in the Defensive midfield position, Fer is going to be next on the list of badly used players.

[Mr Brownstone 0]

Tettey does like to try and burst forward but for me I don''t see a lot of difference in quality on the ball between him and Johnson. For me only one of them should ever be in the side, unless we''re trying to hang on to a lead in the last few minutes.

[ref89 0]

Johnson and Fer are the obvious two to play in the holding positions as Fer can still get forward.The problem is the link between the holding two and the attacking three and the lone striker, it breaks down all the time.Tettey and Howson, no matter where they play are never, ever good enough except for brief spells. They must be on the bench.Watching MOTD, every single team played the same formation as us yesterday, 4-2-3-1, but they did not look isolated in attack, because they linked better.I personally think Elmander in the hole with Snodgrass and Pilkington is our best option.  Redmond is raw talent, but he squanders more than he creates. Elmander also gives us some height to support the Wolf.RuddyWhittakerBassontTurnerOlssonJohnsonFerSnodgrassElmanderPilkingtonWolf

One more point is that our preparation and integration has been ruined by lots of key injuries.  Bassong, Turner, Pilkington, Snodgrass, Hooper, Bennett so far.  Add to that the fact half a dozen are fresh faces, and you still have to give the benefit of the doubt for now.Give it ten games.

[Move Klose 303]

Do you think this woulf work

Johnson

Fer Howson

Snoddy RVW Pilks

A 4123 goin forward and 4141 defending. Just the 1 holding midfielder

[Gingerpele 0]

29 out of 38 successful passes yesterday.

Attempts more ''creative'' passes that Tettey, Howson even quite often. Which he isn''t great at, and I think him being allowed to continue to do that is poor management, Hughton should have worked out oh about one I five of his long balls is successful and told him to stop, but he''s been doing it for some time.

It''s not just the passing, it''s not just the tackling, it''s not just the running, it''s the positioning, especially when other teams counter. Very few people seem to notice how well he covers for an out of position LB or LM, he doesn''t even need to make a tackle, he just needs to be in the right place to slow down the opposition.

His most common pass yesterday was to Redmond, wich is great as he can run on and do what he wants. It''s like when people used to moan about Robinson and Fozzy passing sideways, I''d always say, well isn''t Hucks on one of those sides?

Johnson isn''t helped by playing with Tettey, it can work, but needs Hoolahan to be on form. He isn''t helped when Howson decides he''s not a good football. He isn''t helped by continuing to attempt to be the creative midfielder at times himself.

He isn''t the perfect player, he might not even get in another PL starting line up, but Lambert liked him, Hughton likes him, he''s a very useful player, but I have now come to accept as a Johnson fan, he''s the kind of player who will get over the top critics.

[Downloads 35]

[quote user="Eadie4England"]I just think his job is breaking up play, hassling opposition, putting pressure on and putting tackles in and protecting the back four. Win the ball and pass it to the more "technical" players. I think he does his job well for the level and standard we are at.[/quote]I just don''t think hassling the opposition is enough. he didn''t make any tackles yesterday that I could tell, his passing was one of the poorest.To me its embarrassing that he needs someone by him that can do this for him.We need proper footballers, having a passing accuracy less than 80% all of the time is just rubbish.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- Gingerpele: His most common pass yesterday was to Redmond, which is great as he can run on and do what he wants. It''s like when people used to moan about Robinson and Fozzy passing sideways, I''d always say, well isn''t Hucks on one of those sides?

But a lot is in how you pass it sideways, rolling the ball to Redmond on the halfway line is not going to create anything. Whereas a better passer will roll it into the space in front of the player. The lack of a decent passer in midfield is one reason our attacking play is so static and slow. A good passer sees the pass before he has the ball, and can play the key pass the moment the ball arrives. Our players dally on the ball before putting it 10 yards sideways.

[Downloads 35]

I respect your opinion GP, and i''m not trying to be over the top, just asking whether we need a player like this in this position.But you make a very good point, maybe it is the manager''s fault that lets him make those passes, if he was told he would get dropped if he attempts them, he would soon stop it.

[Gingerpele 0]

I know what you mean Downloads, I really don''t think we need to play Tettey and Johnson, they are almost identified in what the do. Both have the potential to add a little more, Johnson can head the ball well at set pieces, Tettey can burst forward with a bit more speed and has a better shot. But Tettey rarely uses that, and Johnson is more of a nuisance than asset from attacking set pieces. Maybe against the very top sides, Liverpool being the cut off point, Tettey and Johnson together is ''necessary''. Maybe we don''t need one at all, but Hughton will always play one I think, can''t see him not doing so.

CJF, I agree our attack is often static and slow, that''s down to personal, team selection and tactics I think. Johnson and Tettey are both extremely limited in terms of attacking passing. Howson is capable, but very inconsistent in terms of what he provides. We have to hope Fer is the difference. Having that balance, and allowing the four players on front of him (when playing CM) to play like the Everton front four. He can be our Fellaini...

[GJP 79]

I think the time has come to drop Johnson. Not because he has really let anyone down but just to try something slightly different.

[Gingerpele 0]

Even though I''m probably his biggest fan is be ''happy'' to see him dropped if something successful could be worked out.

Howson and Fer could work. In fact I hope it does get tried out and does work. But I don''t expect Hughton to attempt that CM pairing, without playing Tettey or Johnson behind them instead of two strikers or an AM.

I don''t think we have the right manager to drop Johnson (and/or Tettey) for an extended period.

[hogesar 10,762]

Johnson was very poor yesterday but overall he''s been a fantastic player for us.

Playing him and Tettey alongside each other was a ridiculous idea, far too defensive and without enough quality on the ball (as Howson was unlikely to do much out on the right).

However, Johnson is better than Tettey. Johnson at least try''s to spread play about a bit, looks for the full-backs where he can. Tettey only ever looks for the 5 yard pass and it takes him 3 touches to get it out of his feet to actually pass it in the first place.

[JF 694]

Tettey and Johnson would struggle to pass wind, also add Garrido into that as well, a vastly over rated player. Why we needed to line up with 2 defensive midfielders and a center mid on the right is beyond me. The team had no balance and was reminisent of the MClaren England.

[Gnasher 0]

Did you go yesterday Hogesar? Tettey had a 90% pass completion and only lost possession once in his own half. Looking at his pass map, the vast majority are longer than many on here would admit he has the ability to do because of a spell of games last year where he was poor, and several of these are wide to the right, in an effort to spread the play.

As for taking three touches, the movement yesterday was abysmal, tell me anyone who was passing one touch football successfully for us yesterday. Tettey was one of our best players, hence why Johnson made way at HT and not Tettey.

I agree Tettey/Johnson shouldn''t play together and on form its Tettey who should take the DM berth, while Fer reverts to his natural box-to-box game.

[hogesar 10,762]

I did go yesterday, unfortunately.

In the first half today, yes Johnson was very poor.

But one half doesn''t dictate form and over last season and the start of this Johnson has proven to be the better of the two.

[Gnasher 0]

We''ll just have to agree to disagree then.

Tettey didn''t feature at the end of last season due to losing his place to injury and personally I find Johnson all too frustrating, giving the ball away too easily at times.

As for form On the last couple games Tettey impressed vs Everton and relatively yesterday, so for me that puts him ahead of Johnson.

[hogesar 10,762]

Tettey impressed against Everton? What did he do against them that Johnson didn''t do?

I do think the midfield needs a shake-up but I reckon if we drop Johnson we''ll soon miss what he does offer.

[Gnasher 0]

Against Everton he came on and drastically reduced the space they had on the edge of the box, not allowing them to shoot at will as they had done.

And we won''t have to wait long to see what happens in the midfield shake up. Essential we play to natural wide plyers and Fer in his preferred role.

[SeattleCanary 0]

[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]--- Gingerpele: His most common pass yesterday was to Redmond, which is great as he can run on and do what he wants. It''s like when people used to moan about Robinson and Fozzy passing sideways, I''d always say, well isn''t Hucks on one of those sides?

But a lot is in how you pass it sideways, rolling the ball to Redmond on the halfway line is not going to create anything. Whereas a better passer will roll it into the space in front of the player. The lack of a decent passer in midfield is one reason our attacking play is so static and slow. A good passer sees the pass before he has the ball, and can play the key pass the moment the ball arrives. Our players dally on the ball before putting it 10 yards sideways.[/quote]

Does anyone else get annoyed at how sometimes we play it into feet (normally a great thing) when in actual fact it should be played into the space and path the player is running into?

There have been so many times a counter attack has crumbled because we hit it at the player so he has to stop his run and wait for the ball to then carry on. Very frustrating, as this surely is a basic thing.

[CDMullins 498]

Im a BJ fan and think there is a place in our side for him.(next to Fer and behind Howson)

However, I am unable to defend his performance on Saturday, he was terrible.

The only positive I can say is that he shouldnt be playing along side Tettey. Both are far too similar to play together, as said in this thread its their job to win the ball and get it to one of our front 4, asap.

[Petriix 3,219]

See http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719917/LiveStatistics/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Hull-NorwichJohnson, with 38 passes at 76%, was simply not good enough for a central midfielder in the PL. Regardless of his other qualities, he consistently fails with this vital part of his game. He played for 20 minutes against 10 men from arguably one of the weakest teams in the league but gave the ball away once in every four passes. That is shockingly bad however you look at it. It might more forgiveable for an attacking midfielder attempting lots of through balls or a winger repeatedly crossing as these are lower percentage/higher reward but, for a defensive midfielder, there *should* (more on this later) always be an easy pass and, if not you can go back to the keeper rather than keeping giving it away. Against Everton he was even worse with just 71%.Johnny Howson attempted 64 passes with a commendable 91% completion - giving the ball away just 6 times (Bradley Johnson gave the ball away nearly three times as frequently) and completing four key passes. He has not always lived up to his potential, but he gave a solid performance against Hull, just lacking that cutting edge in his final ball. This was much better than his 75% against Everton.Alexander Tettey made 48 passes at 90% which is what you would hope for; completing nine out of 10 passes allows the team to retain possession and build some pressure. You can only score (and you cannot concede [apart from an own goal - but that''s by the by]) when you have possession of the ball! For what it''s worth Tettey made one successful tackle - which is one more than Johnson. He also completed 92% of his passes in the 20 minutes he played against Everton. A massively underrated player I think judging by some of the comments on here.Other significant players to note are Leroy Fer only completed 82% of his 45 passes which is nearly twice as profligate as Tettey and I really hope this improves as he settles in. Steven Whittaker was slightly worse with 55 passes at 80% but, Javier Garrido completed just 76% of his 71 passes, conceding possession on 17 occasions - by far the worst offender - although eight of these were incomplete crosses and incomplete long balls which might be skewed by the freekicks he took. I don''t know if our fullbacks are given a bit more licence to try creative passes and maybe the loss of possession mainly occurred in the attacking third but this does not seem very good at all. If we''re questioning Bradley Johnson the surely we have to look at them too.With all this focus on the passing accuracy of the passer, it is easy to overlook other crucial factor in making a successful pass: the movement of the other players. One thing that Hull did very well was press us all over the park, rushing our passes and taking away the space of the intended receiver. However, we did not create enough space in the midfield and, at times, there was a real lack of movement to engineer this space. Maybe Johnson is not entirely to blame if he is limited in his options of who to pass to and forced to attempt riskier passes.One thing is for sure: we need to improve our passing accuracy as a whole. I noticed that John Ruddy was kicking the ball short on Saturday which certainly helped his percentage improve. Maybe the team need to work on this in other areas too.I know some ignorant people moan when the ball goes sideways or backwards, but we need to get the balance right. Trying too hard to get the ball forwards quickly can be really bad for the team if the ball is given away cheaply and, sometimes a bit more patience is required. I gleefully recall laughing at the people around me who were booing in the middle of our 29 pass Barcelona esque goal against Sunderland as the ball went forwards, backwards and sideways before finally it was played long to Pilkington who finished it off; and guess who made that pass?

[Tetteys Jig 851]

There is certainly a time and a place for Johnno, but i feel it''s time a trio of Tettey, Fer and a further forward Howson were given a shot. Snoddy should be fine next week, so him and redmond should man the wings. Would be nice to see Olsson given a go too.

[PortlandCanary 0]

Johnson was bad yesterday. Every player will have a bad day on the pitch from time to time. It''s just unfortunate that 8 or our starting 11 decided to have a bad day at the same time. Poor scheduling.

[Gingerpele 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"]Im a BJ fan and think there is a place in our side for him.(next to Fer and behind Howson)

However, I am unable to defend his performance on Saturday, he was terrible.

The only positive I can say is that he shouldnt be playing along side Tettey. Both are far too similar to play together, as said in this thread its their job to win the ball and get it to one of our front 4, asap.[/quote]

CDMullins, you might want to change your opinion, its almost exactly the same as mine. ;)

[CDMullins 498]

You cant be wrong all the time kid,