IF we should lose to Bury

[ReadingCanary 0]

Hughton''s staying and there''s nothing you can do about itApart from post on a forum that barely any Norwich fan reads because it''s become too embarrassing to do so.

[ReadingCanary 0]

Imagine if we sacked Hughton ..... having just finished 11th in the Prem2 games into the season"because we didn''t like his football"We would be the laughing stock of the league. The media would rip us to shreds.And i doubt we would bring in any betterNewcastle fans would be cheering because they would no longer be the joke of the Prem

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]Some of our "fans" don''t deserve to support our clubWonder where some of these "fans" were during the dark daysSome people seem to only know the Lambert daysIt wasn''t always rosy in the Yellow and Green side of East Anglia you knowHow people can possibly be outraged 2 games into a season having finished in 11th the season before is beyond crazy[/quote]

spot on Reading Canary!

the days of 4-0 Losses to charlton in front of just 9000 or 6-1 spankings away at Port Vale seem forgotten...

I would wager a large amount of Hughton Outers have been fans since the first premiership run under Worthy....

[ReadingCanary 0]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="ReadingCanary"]Some of our "fans" don''t deserve to support our clubWonder where some of these "fans" were during the dark daysSome people seem to only know the Lambert daysIt wasn''t always rosy in the Yellow and Green side of East Anglia you knowHow people can possibly be outraged 2 games into a season having finished in 11th the season before is beyond crazy[/quote]

spot on Reading Canary!

the days of 4-0 Losses to charlton in front of just 9000 or 6-1 spankings away at Port Vale seem forgotten...

I would wager a large amount of Hughton Outers have been fans since the first premiership run under Worthy....[/quote]I''m pretty sure a large percentage of them are indeed recent supportersorThose who just enjoy being miserablelet''s face it under Lambert we were amazing, but put into the context of things, we hadn''t been that good in years !We were spoilt under him and of course I would love to have kept him.. but we didn''t

[snake-eyes 13]

So I am just a miserable old git who only started supporting the club recently?

Wild assumptions and personal attacks again!

 

I am not advocating sacking Hughton now!

 

What I am asking for is a change of philosophy. Not Gung Ho tactics but more positive in approach.

 

I agree that time needs to be given, but how much?

 

6 games, 10 games, January?

 

If after 6 games we are on 5 or 6 points with just one win would you still be defending the way we play and the manager?

 

I was raised on a positive approach to playing football.  Go for the win. This in no way means the crazy formations of Christian Gross at Spurs, however it does mean trying to score more goals than the opposition.

 

This was the football I played and was quite successful with it and is now the approach I coach.  Which also is quite successful so far.

 

Whilst Norwich are losing games against teams like Hull I am afraid I am not going to be happy!  I had high hopes for this season with the new signings and the positive approach we had at the very end of last season.  I expected us to continue with that and kick on.  Hopefully we will and Hughton has learned from Saturday, but I reserve the right to be apprehensive and critical as the evidence for this has yet to become apparent!

 

Snake 

 

 

 

[ReadingCanary 0]

I''m just as unhappy as the rest of you about Saturdaybut...I don''t understand why we would sack a manager who has a decent record at every club he''s been at.Yes the football is terrible, but you need more than 2 games of a season to see how the team can jell together I honestly believe Hughton will change the style.He played lovely football at Newcastle.

[morty 0]

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]I''m just as unhappy as the rest of you about Saturdaybut...I don''t understand why we would sack a manager who has a decent record at every club he''s been at.Yes the football is terrible, but you need more than 2 games of a season to see how the team can jell together I honestly believe Hughton will change the style.He played lovely football at Newcastle. [/quote]Any idea who his coaches were at Newcastle?I''m not trying to make a point here, I genuinely don''t know.

[snake-eyes 13]

That is what we are asking for, some are just more skeptical than I am and are probably a bit premature calling for his head!

 

However we have seen no improvement on the dross we saw for a large part of last season.

 

That is why people are extremely jumpy and nervous.

 

I truly hope we change, because if we don''t, even you will have to admit, we will be in trouble!

 

Snake

[QHcanary 0]

[quote user="snake-eyes"]I am fed up with some of the high and mighty, holier than thou responses to legitimate concerns.

It is as though you are not allowed to criticise or be worried about the team without being told you are not a proper supporter and don''t deserve a club like Norwich!

That is just bullsh*t!

I said it last year and l will say it again!

It''s because we care and support our team that we rightly voice our concerns!

The argument is lost when attacks on an argument become personal! I am as much a supporter as any other and no -one can say otherwise!

Snake[/quote]

The problem is that you''re criticising after 1 poor performance. We have no idea if things are going to continue this way for a period of time, as they did last season, or it was just a bad day for the players.

People (I''m not saying you) are advocating sacking a manager that took us to our highest league position in 20 years. Yes, with three games to go we could still have been relegated, but we then finished a couple of points off the top half. That''s not so much a measure of how good or bad our season was, but more (IMO) a measure of how tight the league was last year from 8th downwards.

Give it some time. One swallow does not a summer make. If we''re struggling after ten games or so then there''s room for complaint. I said last season that I was happy to put up with the dull football of last season as long as we got the necessary results. To an extent that''s still true now as it''s not reasonable to call for the head of a manager that''s getting results even if you don''t like the style in which they''re achieved (see Pulis, T).

If we''re struggling after 10 games then I may start to think differently, but I''m not gonna react to one bad result by calling for the manager''s head. Now''s not the time.

[snake-eyes 13]

I am not criticising after one game.

This is based on this calendar year. Just because it is a new season does not mean it is an entirely clean slate.

What you are saying is that no one is entitled to criticise at this point.

things have already continued for a period of time! 3 wins only this year?

Yes l will give it time, but time is short!

This league is unforgiving! We need improvement soon!

[QHcanary 0]

It''s a new season. It''s harsh to judge this seasons team on the form of last season. There''s several new faces in our team, as well as additions to almost every squad in the league, which changes things immensely.

The fact that we only won three since the new year last season has no relevance to this season.

I''m not telling you that you can''t criticise. I am telling you that IMO it''s wrong to do so so early in the new season.

The board''s judgement of Chris Hughton wil likelyl be based on their confidence in him keeping us in the division. I appreciate that a fan''s judgement if him may a bit more emotive.

[snake-eyes 13]

It is absolutely relevant when the performance and tactics mirror last season! New players playing the same conservative dross!

I believe the players are better than that and with more freedom will perform.

My criticism is fair and not wrong. I will not bury my head in the sand and pretend anything is ok!

The problem is not the team but the ethos we play with!

Snake

[Dicky 0]

Load of pant wetting idiots. Get behind your club/team/manager FFS

[snake-eyes 13]

Yeh l am p***ing with laughter at your blind naivity!

So that was alright for you on Saturday was it Dicko?

Insults like that are the last refuge of unimaginative!

If you truly cared about this club you would also be concerned about the way we performed earlier this year and again on Saturday.

I do support this club whole heartedly which is why l will be cheering them on as l have always done for nearly 30 years now!

So Dicko join the debate like an adult or disappear back to the gutter where posts like yours belong!

Snake

[QHcanary 0]

You don''t appear to like people disagreeing with you. You''ve got an opinion, and you''re entitled to it. Mine differs.

You''re basing it on one performance. We played well against a good Everton side, then badly against hull.

If we continue to play bad, negative football like Saturday then you''ll have a point, but it''s too early to judge, IMO.

[the bristol nest 0]

It''s the usual dross. Anyone constructively critisising our performances becomes less of a fan or that moronic repeater ,a pant wetter.

Good posts Snake.

[killiecanary 0]

Snake

I enjoy your posts and don''t see you as one of those who seem to have an unpleasant vendetta against our manager for some reason. I disagree with your view on this, but not the way in which you express legitimate concerns. The problem I think is that some posters really do come across as arrogant wotsits carrying with them a hugely over inflated sense of our clubs'' ''rightful'' place and a nasty level of invective (I remember getting pissed off at a certain one last season who referred to our manager as ''puketon'')

I am not as worried as you are for the following reasons

1) we did finish 11th last season. I think any team finishes pretty much where it deserves to over a 38 game season. That finish was much better than I expected when Lambert left and therefore the manger in my eyes did a very competent job

2) we finished there with a squad the manager clearly felt was deficient in many areas. He could only change some of this personnel in that first season, and made the defence a priority- rightly in my view.

3) his signings have been in the main excellent - apart from Becchio, who from Colin W''s book was simply the makeweight to allow him to get shot of Morison.

4) his tactics in big games allowed us to beat Man Utd, Arsenal, Spurs and to a lesser extent Man City - games under Lambert we invariably ''gallantly lost''

4). His signings this Summer have been all about the attacking side of the game - Redmond, RWV, Elmander, Hooper are all new to the club and I think will strengthen that side of our play in time....but not in a fortnight!!!

5). Those signings will take a little time to gel. Redmond needs premiership experience, RVW will score goals, Elmander I think is a decent back up and Hooper obviously has been unlucky with injury so far.

We lost a game to Hull, and some of our fanbase seems to think that we are certs for relegation...I think we are stronger than that and that we will enjoy a good season - but I think some fans were just waiting for a below par performance to stick the boot in - and that attitude worries me greatly.

As is say, I enjoy your posts Snake, and although I disagree with you on this issue, I wanted to try to outline some reasons why rather than just calling you a pantwetter...

...although you are being a pantwetter!!!!!

[snake-eyes 13]

Thanks guys!

Nice to see decent well thought out arguments!

What has been missed is that am not calling for our manager''s head or said we are doomed, but rather if we continue like we are we will be in trouble!

I hope CH has a change of direction and shows us why he was a popular choice to take over here! I for one wanted him here!

Here''s to a Positive performance and result tonight!

Snake

[Warren Hill 0]

Still waiting for an answer to my two earlier questions.

Also, Snake, I can''t be sure (maths isn''t my strong point), but this calendar year I reckon we''ve picked up 20 points from 20 games. That point a game ratio would have kept us up last season (when 18 of those games were played).

[Houston Canary 0]

Would they have landed us in the much vaunted 11th place? Would they have made a mind numbingly dull style of play more entertaining?

By the way, 6 of those points came when we switched tactics. The games were exciting (not for WBAfans) and successful and gave some of us the false impression CH had finally decided our defense could hold down the fort while the offense did what they''d been itching to do since we beat Villa in Lambert''s final game.

But as Snake has pointed out repeatedly, we''ve gone back into or shell and THAT is what is so disappointing. We HAVE the talent, so McNally needs to tell Hughton he has to use it. Why spend tens of millions on offense if we''re not going to use it?

And NO, it hasn''t been 2 games, this slow moving trainwreck has been since mid-December (not including the 2 games we didn''t play conservatively).

I don''t want CH gone, I want him to take advantage of his resources and believe I his team the way most of us do, and let them play some ball!

[Dicky 0]

We didn''t lose - very quiet from some "fans" - must be gutted....

[morty 0]

[quote user="Dicky"]We didn''t lose - very quiet from some "fans" - must be gutted....[/quote]Its funny how some only crawl out from under their stones when we lose, isn''t it?

[Warren Hill 0]

But Houston, those performances did land us that much vaunted 11th place didn''t they?

 

 

[snake-eyes 13]

Oh I''m absolutely gutted about last night!

 

Think I will go hang myself after that!

 

[:P]

[Lavanche 0]

Houston: We didnt change tactics. Simlpe as that. We played most part with same or at least similar tactic trought the season apart of those few times we landed 2 strikers shoulder to shoulder at early part of the season and when we were trailing and needed to take bigger risks.

Even when we played Holt and Kamara at same time, other of them replaced winger or Hoolahan.

This is one of the reasons these discussions seem to go nowhere most of the time as people do not accept that Hughton''s tactics can result lot of goals, overlapping and goal scoring situations when players produce what is asked from them.

Trough whole previous season our middlefielders and fullbacks had a license to get forward, but it was not done without moving the whole unit and this is same time the reason why we sometimes looked like getting nowhere as either our squad couldn''t keep the posession or opponent managed to keep our link up players off the ball.

It is concervative way to play the game to keep unit that compact and solid, but when pieces of puzzle fit together it will result games what we saw during our unbeaten run and at the end of the season. Also it is hard tactic for players as they have to understand eachother and acknowledge when to get forward, when to shoot, when to overlap without breaking the unit. This and building up play is something we still struggle sometimes.

[snake-eyes 13]

Lavanche,

 

tactics were altered for the last two games to the extent that more players were given license to push forwards more often.

 

Often we were only attacking with 2, 3 or 4 players during much of the second half of the season.  In the last two games this became for 5 or 6.

 

Yes the formation did not change, but as Forbes said last night, the formation was not the problem but the way it was being deployed and utilised.

 

To be in with a chance of winning you have to buy a ticket.

 

Snake

 

[Lavanche 0]

Nope you are simply wrong again ^^ I watched both games and overlapping, middlefields pushing forward happened almost always at same positioning and our counters also followed same principality than before.

Ofc every game has little tinkering as you have to take note of opponents playing style and players, but we were no more attacking by intent that we were few games before WBA or 6 months before.

You could say that our players were more relaxed or their head was in right place and mayby Hughton changed some things for pre-game speech etc, but in tactical sense we didnt push players forward any more than we did in other games and when wingers got into the position by cutting lttle bit in, both fullbacks made that normal overlap which happens every single time if opponent dropped few of their attackers to help the defence.

[snake-eyes 13]

Sorry Lavanche but l suggest you watch the games again.

have and l stand by my analysis!

[snake-eyes 13]

My apologies Lavanche that was a bit sharp!  Not intended!

 

What I should have said was that I also watched all the games except away at Man City, which I watched the extended highlights and I witnessed a greater emphasis on getting more numbers into the attacking third and more often than in the previous games.

 

Hope you accept my apology![:$]

 

Snake

[Syteanric 1]

but we didnt lose to Bury!

End of thread!