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Under What Circumstances Should Hughton Be Sacked?

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No manager in the history of this club has been backed to the degree that Hughton has this summer in the transfer market (in real terms, in relative terms), never has one of our managers been able to sign such relative quality in one year, or even an entire tenure. 
He has probably spent £45m+ on transfer fees, there is probably more money for him to spend in January (if we don''t spend it before 2nd September). Never before has there been a time where a manager of this club could go out and grab a young Dutch International striker, a young Dutch international midfielder, one of this countries biggest prospects on the wing, an England prospect with Champions League experience, a Swedish international with 79 caps who was playing in the Champions League last season alongside Wesley Sneijder and Didier Drogba, and a Swedish international left back.
Hughton has been 100% backed by our board, they have put full faith into this man and given him every penny, make no mistake - they believe that this is the man to take this club forward, the man to invest our Premier League riches into securing our future for the long term and achieving a prolonged period of success. 
It''s a huge gamble, no matter who the manager is. It might not work out, and if doesn''t then the consequences can be catastrophic. Our directors believe in this manager. Some of our supporters don''t, but the board have given him absolutely every opportunity to progress our club and his career. 
I''ve been reading this board over the past couple of weeks and see Hughton out stuff, etc etc. It is clear that many of our fans remain unconvinced. I purposely didn''t post after the Hull game. I''m sitting on the fence. We have far too much invested in this man to give up on him after two games, and talk of sacking a manager after one abysmal game is ridiculous. Last season we started the campaign with a 5-0 defeat away at Fulham, we still finished above them. 
But it does beg the question. To those without a heavy pro-Hughton or anti-Hughton standpoint, who are open minded and perhaps cautiously optimistic or slightly pessimistic but with hope. I think that describes most fans actually, most want it to work out, none know whether it will and everybody has at least a little doubt. 
What is the minimum that Hughton would need to achieve this season to keep his job? 17th wouldn''t cut it with me. People always say "I''d take 17th", and well I''d probably take 17th too if it came down to us being sh*te this season and getting sucked into a relegation scrap, but would that really be enough for Hughton to keep his role?
If we finished 15th this season and struggled to score goals again, would the board/the fans want him to be trusted with another £25m next summer?

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I can''t put myself in the heads of the board, but I have to think that they want to see some progress from last year. If CH doesn''t look like he''s using those investments wisely, he''ll be out. They didn''t drop that much $krilla to finish 15th. That being said, it will always be a victory just staying up. It''s hard to know what expectations the board handed down.

Hmm...so...I''m going to say that if we don''t look comfortable by Jan, CH will be gone.

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Yet more evidence that fans are unable to grasp the financial reality of the premier league. Stay up and he has performed. All evidence is that there is no benefit to sacking a decent maanger. Ask Wolves.

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[quote user="T"]Yet more evidence that fans are unable to grasp the financial reality of the premier league. Stay up and he has performed. All evidence is that there is no benefit to sacking a decent maanger. Ask Wolves.[/quote]^^^Pretty much this.Does anyone, with any real grasp of reality, actually believe that we will continue to march up the league, season by season?

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[quote user="T"]Yet more evidence that fans are unable to grasp the financial reality of the premier league. Stay up and he has performed. All evidence is that there is no benefit to sacking a decent maanger. Ask Wolves.[/quote]
So you would be fully happy and behind Hughton if we were sitting in 18th in February then? 
Because we wouldn''t know if he is performing well or not until the end of the season, when we could be 17th or we could be 18th?   I think that your post is "yet more evidence" that our fans have a small club mentality which we will never break out of.What would have been the target if he''d have spent £15m this summer? Would that still be 17th or would that be 18th? What if he had spent £40m this summer, would that still be 17th or would it be 15th? 
17th would not be a disaster for the club, but if you don''t set performance benchmarks with your annual budgets then your business will fail. The club finishing 17th and Hughton finishing 17th are two completely different things, most fans can see that. 

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="T"]Yet more evidence that fans are unable to grasp the financial reality of the premier league. Stay up and he has performed. All evidence is that there is no benefit to sacking a decent maanger. Ask Wolves.[/quote]^^^Pretty much this.Does anyone, with any real grasp of reality, actually believe that we will continue to march up the league, season by season?[/quote]
Has anybody on this thread said that "we will continue to march up the league, season by season?" or are you (for the second time this afternoon), making stuff up? I asked a question, I never answered it myself. 

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[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]


 

17th would not be a disaster for the club, but if you don''t set performance benchmarks with your annual budgets then your business will fail. The club finishing 17th and Hughton finishing 17th are two completely different things, most fans can see that. 

[/quote]

 

Not sure they can. What makes you think most fans can see it? How many do you know, have they told you? The circumstances you set out suggest to me you''d want McNally sacked. Although you don''t mention him. Isn''t that what most "supposedly" failing businesses would do?

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]

 

17th would not be a disaster for the club, but if you don''t set performance benchmarks with your annual budgets then your business will fail. The club finishing 17th and Hughton finishing 17th are two completely different things, most fans can see that. 

[/quote]

Not sure they can. What makes you think most fans can see it? How many do you know, have they told you? The circumstances you set out suggest to me you''d want McNally sacked. Although you don''t mention him. Isn''t that what most "supposedly" failing businesses would do?

[/quote]
Are you saying that Hughton''s appointment and playing budget was set by David McNally without the universal agreement of the board of directors? 
I''ve not said that I would want Hughton or McNally sacked under any circumstances. I will provide my opinion though, perhaps it is in the interests of the original thread which actually asked for other peoples opinion and was not intended to serve as a platform from which to project my own. 
My opinion is that I would probably be calling for Hughton''s head if by mid-January we look at serious risk of relegation. It is also my opinion that calling for Hughton''s head after one defeat in the second game of the season away is pathetic. I consider my stance to be a relatively moderate and patient one.
I''m interested in other peoples opinions. So, what is yours? 

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My thinking with Hughton is that I don''t see him being our manager in two years time. This won''t be because he''s poached by another club either. I feel like the club might outgrow Hughton''s style of play eventually.

Someone above used Wolves as the comparison. I don''t see that myself because they have a ridiculous owner who started interfering with MM''s work at Wolves. Then failed miserably to appoint a new manager.

I think we need to be more careful not to become like Charlton. They sacked Curbishley because they were tired of not progressing. Bored of mid-table Premier League finishes. Whereas realistically what else could Charlton achieve? Nothing, as it turned out.

We need to be realistic. We want to stay in the Premier League but we''re never going to be Champions League. Also, who here really wants Europa League football?

I know our limitations, but despite those, it would be nice to actually see us playing more positively and if we''re going to finish 17th or wherever, do it having had a go at the opposition rather than sitting back and playing with one up top all the time.

I think if we''re struggling badly around November/December, he''s gone. And would deserve to be too.

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[quote user="chicken"]Two games gone, five key players out injured and we have our first ''sack Hughton'' thread.

Great.[/quote]
It''s the first if you have been living in a cave for the last week. 
Nowhere in this thread have I suggested Hughton be sacked. It was an entirely hypothetical question being posed which people could choose to either ignore or read, and then elect to either reply to or not to reply to.
You chose to read it. You chose to reply to it. You didn''t have to read it. You didn''t have to reply to it. 

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[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="morty"][quote user="T"]Yet more evidence that fans are unable to grasp the financial reality of the premier league. Stay up and he has performed. All evidence is that there is no benefit to sacking a decent maanger. Ask Wolves.[/quote]^^^Pretty much this.Does anyone, with any real grasp of reality, actually believe that we will continue to march up the league, season by season?[/quote]
Has anybody on this thread said that "we will continue to march up the league, season by season?" or are you (for the second time this afternoon), making stuff up? I asked a question, I never answered it myself. 
[/quote]Do you always take everything so personally?A great many people on this forum have taken a very arrogant attitude regarding our club. In reality we are all probably going to become accustomed to Premiership mid table mediocrity.

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[quote user="Row D Seat 7"] They sacked Curbishley because they were tired of not progressing. Bored of mid-table Premier League finishes. Whereas realistically what else could Charlton achieve? Nothing, as it turned out.  [/quote]
Charlton fans got bored. The same reason Pulis got sacked. I can see the same thing happening with Hughton. Dependable managers who bring stability but very little by way of excitement. 

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[quote user="morty"] In reality we are all probably going to become accustomed to Premiership mid table mediocrity.[/quote]
And you are probably right, but there is always the cups. 

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A few people slated my point on my thread earlier, but that''s what you get when you appoint a manager who has no aspirations to manage a bigger club than us. Safe, negative football.

A manager who wanted to achieve big things in the game would take more risks, play more attacking, provide excitement i.e. Paul Lambert.

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[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]  who here really wants Europa League football? [/quote]
Who wouldn''t? Can''t think of anything better than flying out on Ryanair to some Eastern European backwater to take over a local bar with fellow fans in the yellow and green to get tanked up on 80p pints of lager and watch my team beat some obscure team in an intimidating seventies-style all standing stadium. Sounds brilliant to me. Beats Stoke away. 

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[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]A few people slated my point on my thread earlier, but that''s what you get when you appoint a manager who has no aspirations to manage a bigger club than us. Safe, negative football.

A manager who wanted to achieve big things in the game would take more risks, play more attacking, provide excitement i.e. Paul Lambert.[/quote]
I agree completely. Maybe a couple more years with Hughton would be a good thing for the club, get some money behind it, maybe even expand the stadium, but can''t see us punching above our weight or reaching Wembley with him at the helm. Would love to be proved wrong of course. 

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[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]A few people slated my point on my thread earlier, but that''s what you get when you appoint a manager who has no aspirations to manage a bigger club than us. Safe, negative football.

A manager who wanted to achieve big things in the game would take more risks, play more attacking, provide excitement i.e. Paul Lambert.[/quote]He left.Just saying.

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In answer to the OP, I myself am going to review where we are after ten games.This is a sufficient time to give us some idea as to how the season is likely to shape up.My personal opinion is that the board will give Hughton the whole season.

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As long as Hughton develops a good football team that we like watching, he will stay.  The only circumstances he should be sacked is if  the development stops and the consistent fluid football he is known for doesn''t materisalise.  

But hang on!   Its a no brainer.   He will improve the team - he''s that good.   He will sort the midfield out and develop that - it will happen.   The only way he will leave this club is when he has been so successful; that a top club poaches him.    That is what is so exciting about our situation.  Players good. Finances good.  Manager good.  Behind the scenes good.  We are not there yet - it will take time - but I''m convinced it will happen. 

Sorry op, the question is irrelevant  (imo). [:)]

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Does the saying ''hope I''m proved wrong'' mean the complete opposite nowadays?

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[quote user="chicken"]Two games gone, five key players out injured and we have our first ''sack Hughton'' thread.

Great.[/quote]I guess this is the first time youve logged in since the Hull game?In my opinion, Id keep him if we went down and Id only think about sacking him should we not make the play-offs the following year.

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@Morty - ''I myself am going to review where we are after ten games''. Why the ''I'' AND the ''myself''. Surely ''I am going to review where we are after ten games'' would''ve been better? Just sayin!

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[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]@Morty - ''I myself am going to review where we are after ten games''. Why the ''I'' AND the ''myself''. Surely ''I am going to review where we are after ten games'' would''ve been better? Just sayin![/quote]What?

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