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Warren Hill

Has it always been like this?

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As we lumbered towards being relegated to League One, I remember there being lots of complaints about the manager, probably even more about the board, but I don''t remember anyone being particularly vocal about our "style" of play. At that time we had a terribly weak squad full of loan players but nobody seemed concerned with the way we set up or whether we played fluid attacking football, it all seemed to be about the end result.

 

What was it like on here back then? Were the people bemoaning our style now making similar comments about our playing style then or were they content with what was being served up? Was entertainment less important or were they more concerned with our league position?

 

I guess I''m asking whether things have turned full circle and style has become more important than status, or has it always been like this?

 

 

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There''s been people moaning on here for as long as I''ve read the board. There''s always a target. Worthy and Delia had the worst, compared to them Roeder and Grant got off lightly. In fact I reckon Haughton gets more stick than Roeder and Grant got.

 

 

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But why is that?

 

Were the fans honestly more content under Grant/Roeder/Gunn struggling in the championship with a squad of other peoples players than they are now?

 

Were we honestly playing a better brand of football as we plummetted towards the Championship trapdoor? And if we weren''t why wasn''t it important then?

 

 

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I don''t think we have an unattractive style of play in the sense that we play hoofball its more the level of ambition in our play that people have an issue with.

In answer to your question I think people probably moaned less about the style of play because everyone realised we had poor players and were more concerned about points and survival than anything else.

I think the current frustration stems from the fact that we now have some seriously good players but our tactics do not allowing them to attack/perform as we believe they can. In many ways when you acknowledge you support a sh*t team its easier as you are grateful for any good play/results. Its the hope that gets you!

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]

I think the current frustration stems from the fact that we now have some seriously good players but our tactics do not allowing them to attack/perform as we believe they can. [/quote]

I just can not go along with the view that our tactics are wrong.   It is the implementation of the tactics that is wrong. In other words the players are not delivering what Hughton wants.  We saw a prime example on Saturday.  Its simple. Too many passes given away.  Its down to players to sort that out, keep possession better and things would be a whole lot easier.   I say this over and over again, but Hughton will get the team playing better - with the same tactics - and once he does, we will be less frustrated.  But it is down to the players imo. 

As for moaning, that won''t go away - and if there were no moaners, the ones who don''t like the moaning would  have nothing to moan about!

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]

But why is that?

 

Were the fans honestly more content under Grant/Roeder/Gunn struggling in the championship with a squad of other peoples players than they are now?

 

Were we honestly playing a better brand of football as we plummetted towards the Championship trapdoor? And if we weren''t why wasn''t it important then?

 

 

[/quote]

 

Well thinking about it Warren, by then Delia had become the target so all the moaning was about the club ownership and why we couldn''t get a "real benefactor" like the boy mucus from down the road.

 

But what strikes me is it''s often the same posters doing the moaning. Of course some have left and some have reinvented themselves but I''ve noticed many posters who are NEVER happy!

 

 

 

 

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

I think the current frustration stems from the fact that we now have some seriously good players but our tactics do not allowing them to attack/perform as we believe they can. [/quote]

I just can not go along with the view that our tactics are wrong.   It is the implementation of the tactics that is wrong. In other words the players are not delivering what Hughton wants.  We saw a prime example on Saturday.  Its simple. Too many passes given away.  Its down to players to sort that out, keep possession better and things would be a whole lot easier.   I say this over and over again, but Hughton will get the team playing better - with the same tactics - and once he does, we will be less frustrated.  But it is down to the players imo. 

As for moaning, that won''t go away - and if there were no moaners, the ones who don''t like the moaning would  have nothing to moan about!

[/quote]

Well we will have to agree to disagree then but i do not believe that for the majority of last season our players were not implementing Hughton''s tactics, that he was constanctly imploring the likes of Howson, Martin and Garrido to get forward yet they stedafastly chose to ignore his pleas.

Its only my view but the last 3 or 4 games saw a marked changed in approach with said players pushing forward a lot more than they had done previously. that can only be because previously they had been told not to.

In my view thats where the current frustration of many fans comes from. We are Norwich fans. We are quite used to seeing our team lose and I suspect whilst we all have a little strop from time to time most of can handle seeing our team lose. Its the feeling that the team is not playing to its full potential that i personally find most frustrating.

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[quote user="can u sit down please"]I''d say its down to expectations and personnel available.[/quote]

 

So "style" didn''t used to matter then? When did we become football snobs?

 

 

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--- lake district canary: I just can not go along with the view that our tactics are wrong.   It is the implementation of the tactics that is wrong. In other words the players are not delivering what Hughton wants. 

I just don''t agree LDC.. These are Hughton''s players! He signed the vast majority of the side that played against Hull! He picks players for their defensive attributes over their attacking ones. If he cannot get his players to play how he wants, then who''s fault is that? There is a lot of talk about passes being given away and yet he picks BJ, Tettey and Howson in midfield, none of whom are capable of a wide range of quick passing. They never will be and I will be surprised if Fer is much different, although I expect him to be an upgrade on BJ and Tettey in that role.

In actual fact our attacking failings come from a reluctance for the side to push forward, with the emphasis in keeping our defensive shape in case we lose possession. We are very slow and predictable in attack, hence why we score so few from open play.

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--- nutty nigel: Worthy and Delia had the worst, compared to them Roeder and Grant got off lightly. In fact I reckon Haughton gets more stick than Roeder and Grant got.

A lot is probably because Worthy went on being rubbish at least a year past his sell by date. Grant resigned when clear things were going badly, and the awful Roeder was given the chop not long after losing the dressing room.

Hughton has been unlucky really. His refusal to drop his ultra-defensive style and draw our way to safety last season during 5 months of some of the dullest football for years is probably the reason why he has been on the receiving end.

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[quote user="Warren Hill"]

As we lumbered towards being relegated to League One, I remember there being lots of complaints about the manager, probably even more about the board, but I don''t remember anyone being particularly vocal about our "style" of play. At that time we had a terribly weak squad full of loan players but nobody seemed concerned with the way we set up or whether we played fluid attacking football, it all seemed to be about the end result.

 

What was it like on here back then? Were the people bemoaning our style now making similar comments about our playing style then or were they content with what was being served up? Was entertainment less important or were they more concerned with our league position?

 

I guess I''m asking whether things have turned full circle and style has become more important than status, or has it always been like this?

 

 

[/quote]

There has always been moaning ever since I can remember. It''s part and parcel of being a football supporter. Whats different now is that everybody and his dog thinks he''s an expert. 442, 4231, etc,etc years ago we just went to the match and watched a game of football played in a simple manner. You would admire the individual skill on display while now it''s all down to organisation and tactics.Now everybody wants to pick the team second guess the tactics and criticise the manager if we don''t win. I blame Sky TV pundits and all the technical stuff we are bombarded with. Years ago we were happy enough with a decent game, a few goals and hopefully a win.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="Jim Smith"]

I think the current frustration stems from the fact that we now have some seriously good players but our tactics do not allowing them to attack/perform as we believe they can. [/quote]I just can not go along with the view that our tactics are wrong.   It is the implementation of the tactics that is wrong. In other words the players are not delivering what Hughton wants.  We saw a prime example on Saturday.  Its simple. Too many passes given away.  Its down to players to sort that out, keep possession better and things would be a whole lot easier.   I say this over and over again, but Hughton will get the team playing better - with the same tactics - and once he does, we will be less frustrated.  But it is down to the players imo.  As for moaning, that won''t go away - and if there were no moaners, the ones who don''t like the moaning would  have nothing to moan about![/quote]

Well we will have to agree to disagree then but i do not believe that for the majority of last season our players were not implementing Hughton''s tactics, that he was constanctly imploring the likes of Howson, Martin and Garrido to get forward yet they stedafastly chose to ignore his pleas.

Its only my view but the last 3 or 4 games saw a marked changed in approach with said players pushing forward a lot more than they had done previously. that can only be because previously they had been told not to.

In my view thats where the current frustration of many fans comes from. We are Norwich fans. We are quite used to seeing our team lose and I suspect whilst we all have a little strop from time to time most of can handle seeing our team lose. Its the feeling that the team is not playing to its full potential that i personally find most frustrating.[/quote]

We can agree on your last sentence.   We all want to the team to perform better.   Lets hope the team improve their passing and moving  - and that Hughton has the confidence in them now he has more quality players in, to allow them to get forward more. 

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[quote user="spencer 1970"]It''s down to senile dementia.[/quote]We have a winner![:D]

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The thing that jars me off the most, is the selective/convenient memory many people on hear have. For example, I am the first to acknowledge what a fantatstic job Paul Lambert and his coaching team did (particularly Cully who clearly is the main man behind the scenes). But, there were several  poor displays during his time too and a couple of very below par displays. Also, whilst we did have our moments regarding our attacking play, and generally did certainly try to be offensive when possible ,we really were not as free flowing and attack minded as some make out. We relied heavily on pure work ethic a lot of the time, went for it with more risky substitutions certainly, but were the recipients of a good slice of luck in many matches, particularly in The Premier League season. I know many will not agree, maybe its me with the selective memory.

In answer to the subject question......yes, its always been like this and usually there is at least one long running agenda against one of the players.........we have a couple of these bubbling away at the moment........  

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="Warren Hill"]

As we lumbered towards being relegated to League One, I remember there being lots of complaints about the manager, probably even more about the board, but I don''t remember anyone being particularly vocal about our "style" of play. At that time we had a terribly weak squad full of loan players but nobody seemed concerned with the way we set up or whether we played fluid attacking football, it all seemed to be about the end result.

 

What was it like on here back then? Were the people bemoaning our style now making similar comments about our playing style then or were they content with what was being served up? Was entertainment less important or were they more concerned with our league position?

 

I guess I''m asking whether things have turned full circle and style has become more important than status, or has it always been like this?

 

 

[/quote]


There has always been moaning ever since I can remember. It''s part and parcel of being a football supporter. Whats different now is that everybody and his dog thinks he''s an expert. 442, 4231, etc,etc years ago we just went to the match and watched a game of football played in a simple manner. You would admire the individual skill on display while now it''s all down to organisation and tactics.

Now everybody wants to pick the team second guess the tactics and criticise the manager if we don''t win. I blame Sky TV pundits and all the technical stuff we are bombarded with. Years ago we were happy enough with a decent game, a few goals and hopefully a win.
[/quote]

Spot on mate. I don''t give a stuff about tic tacs as long as the football looks reasonably pretty, exciting and we see some GOALS!! You can play a christmas tree, a diamond, a ruby or even an elm tree formation for all I care, as long as my team puts the ball in the back of the opponents goal a few times in a match. As far as I''m concerned spectator sport is solely about entertainment - nothing more and nothing less!

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I''ve been following this MB since before Worthy got us promoted and there has always been moaning about the way the manager approached specific games etc. but no I don''t think there was a long running moan about our style of play like there is now about us being to defensive, mainly because there have normally been much more worrying things to moan about.

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Well my old buddy Jim Smith used to moan about fans with inflatables "''avin'' a disco'' when the football was really bad...

 

Everything, it seems, was more important than the football back then! It''s because it''s all there is left to moan about!! I''m tellin'' ya!!! [;)]

 

 

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I think its to do fans being conditioned with what has recently gone before. Roeder and Gunn deserved far more flack than they got but because we had all put up with years of slow decline before they arrived the cr@p they served up didn''t get slated as much as it should have.

You could say the same about Worthy - he got a right kicking the year after promotion and the premiership yet we were around half way when he was hounded out.

Hughton is picking up the flack now because he is playing a more conservative style after three years of unprecedented success under Lambert.

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I originally joined in 2003...it was just the same back then!................no edit button![;)]

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

It says you joined in March this year Wiz. What happened.....

 

 

[/quote]

 

My original registration is crashed Nutty (1st wizard) and although I still have the passwords to that A/C, it won''t accept them........ I asked Pete to close that account, he did and now I can''t re-open it.

 

Pity,  I had nearly 19,000 post on that![:(]

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[quote user="Wiz"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

It says you joined in March this year Wiz. What happened.....

 

 

[/quote]

 

My original registration is crashed Nutty (1st wizard) and although I still have the passwords to that A/C, it won''t accept them........ I asked Pete to close that account, he did and now I can''t re-open it.

 

Pity,  I had nearly 19,000 post on that![:(]

[/quote]

 

I once had a bank account like that. I can''t get into it anymore but the wife can!

 

Ask Pete to re-open it for you then and while he''s about it he could pin up this week''s Rays Funds....

 

 

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Our style of play did get criticised under Roeder and Grant, which was an awful period in our club. Even Worthington was doomed as he didn''t have the full support of the dressing room even when we went up! He was still a rather cautious manager.

Delia and Doncaster got the most stick from memory and in my opinion, rightly so. You don''t want to spend an hour on the phone to Doomcaster, believe me as I''ver been there. Self-harming seemed a much more enjoyable way of spending ones time when compared to our nauseating and clueless ex Chief Exec.

McNally appointed Lambert and the rest is history. He is the man I don''t want to lose, because if that happened, the club could fall apart.

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[quote user="basil brush"]Our style of play did get criticised under Roeder and Grant, which was an awful period in our club. Even Worthington was doomed as he didn''t have the full support of the dressing room even when we went up! He was still a rather cautious manager. Delia and Doncaster got the most stick from memory and in my opinion, rightly so. You don''t want to spend an hour on the phone to Doomcaster, believe me as I''ver been there. Self-harming seemed a much more enjoyable way of spending ones time when compared to our nauseating and clueless ex Chief Exec. McNally appointed Lambert and the rest is history. He is the man I don''t want to lose, because if that happened, the club could fall apart.[/quote]

 

LOL Bas! What did she do to deserve it then?

 

 

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Because the club wasn''t being run in a professional manner that the fans and everyone associated with the it deserved. I was fiercely critical of her at the time, despite her best intentions.

McNally transformed the club and ran it - and still does - like a true professional.

Gunn would never had been appointed by McNally. Period. You catch my drift...

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Delia appointed McNally....

 

But it wasn''t really that abuse I was getting at. It was all the stuff like she''d been lining her purse, she''d lied about her investments, she didn''t show ambition like the binners did with the boy mucus, she''d gone to the bank to shaft Robert Chase. I could go on to suggestions that we should line CR with burning effigies of her and her old man...

 

And it got worse still. Yet nobody was moaning like that about style of play[*-)]

 

 

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If that''s true, which I doubt, where are these posters now? If they felt so strongly, what happened?

Or are we likely to see these football "Gok Wan" types fall by the wayside too?

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