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The Great Mass Debater

What is stopping David Fox moving on?

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]-- morty: Yup, thought so.

He is the manager so he must be getting things right. Exactly the same dirge said when Worthy was picking the dreadful Andy Hughes.[/quote]Why are you going on about this? Thats twice you have mentioned this.Seriously do you have some sort of long standing issue here?

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]--- The New Boy (Le Juge): But we don''t have an upgrade on Fox, because Hughton doesn''t want an upgrade on Fox. There is no room for a player of his mould in a Hughton team, and I don''t really see why you can''t see and agree with that point.

Hughton wants players who can tackle, not players who can pass. Hence signing Fer and trying to play him behind the striker. It is why the Hoot is a defensive manager. Anyone who thinks we are going to become more ambitious in our play is living in cloud cuckoo land.[/quote]
Exactly, I agree. 
Tettey + Johnson = Two defensive midfielders.
There may be a lot of managers playing 4-5-1 but there can''t be many playing two defensive midfielders. 

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[quote] When did Fox last appear in a first team game? [/quote]
What is the relevance of this question? 
[quote] Was it in the cup last season, where he had a shocker? [/quote]
No it wasn''t.
[quote]  Happy to languish in the background [/quote] 
Citation / Source? 
[quote] Finding himself another club? [/quote] 
Maybe he is?
[quote] I mean he sounds like a real bargain [/quote] 
What''s the price? 
[quote]  the clubs must be tripping over themselves trying to sign him. [/quote] Maybe they are. 

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[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]
[quote] When did Fox last appear in a first team game? [/quote]
What is the relevance of this question? 
[quote] Was it in the cup last season, where he had a shocker? [/quote]
No it wasn''t.
[quote]  Happy to languish in the background [/quote] 
Citation / Source? 
[quote] Finding himself another club? [/quote] 
Maybe he is?
[quote] I mean he sounds like a real bargain [/quote] 
What''s the price? 
[quote]  the clubs must be tripping over themselves trying to sign him. [/quote] Maybe they are. 
[/quote]Bloody hell lol.Questions too hard for you?I asked when he last appeared in the first team as I genuinely can''t remember.If he wasn''t happy to languish in the background do you not think he would have put in a transfer request?Lets just leave it mate, you rate him, I don''t. My opinion is backed by a Premiership manager, yours isn''t.

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[quote]  Questions too hard for you? [/quote]
No

[quote] I asked when he last appeared in the first team as I genuinely can''t remember. [/quote]
April 13th 2013

[quote] If he wasn''t happy to languish in the background do you not think he would have put in a transfer request? [/quote]
Is it standard procedure for clubs to announce transfer requests from reserve team players to the media? I doubt it. 
[quote] Lets just leave it mate, you rate him, I don''t. [/quote]
Agreed. 
[quote]  My opinion is backed by a Premiership manager [/quote]
One who gave him a new two year contract? 
[quote] yours isn''t. [/quote]
Has Paul Lambert been sacked? Played him 32 times in the Premier League. 

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[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]
[quote]  Questions too hard for you? [/quote]
No

[quote] I asked when he last appeared in the first team as I genuinely can''t remember. [/quote]
April 13th 2013

[quote] If he wasn''t happy to languish in the background do you not think he would have put in a transfer request? [/quote]
Is it standard procedure for clubs to announce transfer requests from reserve team players to the media? I doubt it. 
[quote] Lets just leave it mate, you rate him, I don''t. [/quote]
Agreed. 
[quote]  My opinion is backed by a Premiership manager [/quote]
One who gave him a new two year contract? 
[quote] yours isn''t. [/quote]
Has Paul Lambert been sacked? Played him 32 times in the Premier League. 
[/quote]To be fair its a while ago now that Paul Lambert rated him, isn''t it?

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---- morty: Lets just leave it mate, you rate him, I don''t.

No, you just agree with whatever the current manager does or says. You don''t have an opinion of your own beyond this sheepy. Hence your Ginger Pele moniker and repeated defence of Andy Hooves back in the day.

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The New Boy (Le Juge) wrote the following post at 28/08/2013 6:43 PM:

"''Assist Rate'', what is this the MLS? May as well just start calling our sport soccer, it is going to happen one day.

Bradley Johnson: 71 appearances, 7 assists

David Fox: 74 appearances, 14 assists

Just saying. "

You were the one stating that Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey and Howson were struggling as a supply line (compared of course to Playmaker Fox).

And your figures are slightly skewed - Fox has just 2 assists in 30 PL appearances, BJ has 8 from his 67. Fox never scored in the Premiership, BJ has got 3 and if there were stats for last ditch tackles and goal line clearances I know who my money would be on. Fox just is not good value for money on the pitch, he does not offer enough.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]---- morty: Lets just leave it mate, you rate him, I don''t.

No, you just agree with whatever the current manager does or says. You don''t have an opinion of your own beyond this sheepy. Hence your Ginger Pele moniker and repeated defence of Andy Hooves back in the day.[/quote]I keep the Ginger Pele avatar mainly because I can''t be bothered to find a new one.I don''t even remember championing Andy Hughes, I''m touched that you do.

You clearly have some sort of issue with me.What I suggest you do is write whatever your issues are down on a piece of paper.Roll the paper up really tight.Then cram it up your ass.

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]The New Boy (Le Juge) wrote the following post at 28/08/2013 6:43 PM:

"''Assist Rate'', what is this the MLS? May as well just start calling our sport soccer, it is going to happen one day.

Bradley Johnson: 71 appearances, 7 assists

David Fox: 74 appearances, 14 assists

Just saying. "

You were the one stating that Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey and Howson were struggling as a supply line (compared of course to Playmaker Fox).

And your figures are slightly skewed - Fox has just 2 assists in 30 PL appearances, BJ has 8 from his 67. Fox never scored in the Premiership, BJ has got 3 and if there were stats for last ditch tackles and goal line clearances I know who my money would be on. Fox just is not good value for money on the pitch, he does not offer enough.[/quote]Good luck, I hope you''re ready for a long haul here[Y]

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[quote user="Joanna Grey"]The New Boy (Le Juge) wrote the following post at 28/08/2013 6:43 PM:

"''Assist Rate'', what is this the MLS? May as well just start calling our sport soccer, it is going to happen one day.

Bradley Johnson: 71 appearances, 7 assists

David Fox: 74 appearances, 14 assists

Just saying. "

You were the one stating that Hoolahan, Johnson, Tettey and Howson were struggling as a supply line (compared of course to Playmaker Fox).

And your figures are slightly skewed - Fox has just 2 assists in 30 PL appearances, BJ has 8 from his 67. Fox never scored in the Premiership, BJ has got 3 and if there were stats for last ditch tackles and goal line clearances I know who my money would be on. Fox just is not good value for money on the pitch, he does not offer enough.[/quote]
Your own figures are wrong, you seem to have subtracted 1 assist from David Fox and awarded that to Bradley Johnson.
Johnson Vs Fox is a silly argument anyway, because if there is one player that I would play Fox alongside it would be Johnson. A better argument is Fox Vs Tettey, seeing as he is the player that Hughton replaced him with, and if you want to have that debate with Premier League "assist rate" then:
David Fox: 30 appearances, 0 goals, 3 assists
Alex Tettey: 29 appearances, 0 goals, 0 assists
So how much did Tettey offer on the pitch exactly? I''m using your preferred criteria here. I prefer to call what I see on the pitch, but if this is your way then let''s have the Fox Vs Tettey argument? 
I never said anything about dropping Johnson for Fox, I specifically stated that I''d have played him ahead of Tettey, so what''s your argument against that?  I know that my opinion is controversial here, but Tettey in my opinion is rubbish and well out of his depth in this league.

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--- Joanna Grey And your figures are slightly skewed - Fox has just 2 assists in 30 PL appearances, BJ has 8 from his 67. Fox never scored in the Premiership.

I think you underestimate the importance of his play:

‘He has always had an eye for a pass and is a terrific footballer. He sees things so quickly and has a great awareness of what’s going on around him..a marvellous talent’.

‘He will benefit the team with his wide range of passing’

When you watch the one dimensional, either lump it forward and lose it, or dally on the ball then knock it 10 yards sideways, passing skills that we are currently showing it does make you wonder what we are missing by having at trio (Tettey/BJ/Howson) of poor passers in central midfield.

Whether Fox is the answer is debatable. He played over 30 Premiership games for Lambert, but as many people have said, Lambert was able to get the team to achieve more than the sum of its parts. I would say it is a shame he has been left out almost entirely. But there again Hughton is not a man who uses the squad, and prefers a stable first XI, so it isn''t a surprise.

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Good to see you guys enjoying such longevity, and also such astute appraisal of the chosen one!

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Bloody hell! After spending 10 minutes of my life wading through that load of posts.. (including some very childish arguing!)... I tentatively agree with The New Boy about our midfield.

I think Fox would complement Johnson or Tettey nicely. One player can pass but not tackle (Fox), the other can tackle but not pass (Johnson/Tettey).

So to me, it''s that simple. You either play a lightweight midfield likely to pass well but not get the ball back (Fox/Hoolahan), or a midfield that can''t pass but will get the ball back (and then lose it again!) - (Johnson & Tettey).. Or, you could play a mixture and hopefully find a balance (Fox/Hoolahan + Johnson/Tettey).

Personally, I''d sod Johnson and Tettey off altogether and play Fox alongside Fer!

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MancCanary wrote the following post at 30/08/2013 3:29 PM:

"So to me, it''s that simple. You either...."

Or we buy a player like Wanyama to sit besides Fer ;-) .

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And to be honest Tettey doesnt have huge range of passing variations, but he doesnt really lose the ball so often as some people make him. Actually he is quite good to deliver the ball to player with better vision.

But I have shouted long time that decent deep lying playmaker could do us miracles and now that we really have first time after our promotion promising box to box player beside him, it could be the factor that brings us some cup glory.

Anyway Fox is too one sided player that doesnt offer much outside of his passing. His movement never was from top shelf and as a defending midfielder he is average. As said in this thread it would mean hugely different tactics to bring him on and make him effective without giving up our solid formation.

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