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FatMan Fat

Whi if not Worthington?

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Just a thought about comparing Worthington with the the three managers involved in relegation  from the Premiership and the six managers involved in promotion from the Championship.

If it were possible to have any of these other managers, and if we were to be truly honest, who would you rather have as our manager?

My vote is as follows -

Worthington v Robson - winner Robson

Worthington v Dowie - winner Dowie

Worthington v Redknapp - winner Worthington

Worthington v McCarthy - winner McCarthy

Worthington v Jewell - winner Jewell

Worthington v Royal - winner Royal

Worthington v Davies -winner Worthington

Worthington v Burley - winner Burley

Worthington v Pardew - winner Worthington.

So for me, I would rather have 6 out of the 9 as our manager

Oh, I would also prefer Danny Wilson and possibly John Deehan.  I think the few seasons that Dixie has served in the lower leagues would now make him a much better manager than the last time he had a crack.

Now, I wonder just how honest people can be when comparing Worthington to the 9 managers above

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IMO Worthy is has done a better job than Jewell or McCarthy.  He got us up (by some margin) and made some great signings on the way.  We were more impressive last season than Sunderland, Wigan or Ippo this season

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[quote]IMO Worthy is has done a better job than Jewell or McCarthy. He got us up (by some margin) and made some great signings on the way. We were more impressive last season than Sunderland, Wigan or Ippo...[/quote]

DD, that was last season. If you compared McCarthy and Worthy now after the seasons that both teams have had what would you then say.The season that City won the Championship was McCarthy''s first full season in charge of Sunderland. They finished third in that season with a defensive record that was almost as solid as City''s. This season, McCarthy''s second, Sunderland have won the Championship by a 7 point margin. Again very comparable to City''s Championship win.Worthy''s first full season in charge (2001/2002) saw City finish 6th and make the playoff final. Second full season in charge (2002/2003) had City in 7th. Of course, last season they were back up to top of the division.So if you are going to compare Worthy and McCarthy at least compare them on some level playing field. McCarthy has got them back up in two seasons. Although you can argue of course that they had come down from the Premiership in 2002/2003 the tail end of which was when McCarthy was in charge.So, Worthy McCarthyFirst season City 6th Sunderland 3rdSecond season City 7th Sunderland 1stThird season City 1st Sunderland ???It is difficult to compare the two but at least compare them like for like. As far as I can tell McCarthy has done a good job there at Sunderland but they''re only two seasons out of the Premiership.BTW, that last point should be a warning to all who think City will bounce straight back....

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I don''t like McCarthy, but he''s really proved himself this season. He lost 17 players when he took over a morale depleted squad, and now they''re premiership. I agree re Jewell though, DD.

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Not sure that I agree with all your analysis FMF.

Jewell was beaten out of sight by us last season despite a huge budget, as was Royle, who was unable to hold onto a lead in the championship, which Worthy ensured we did.  Both bleaton about bad decisions when their team fails which is something I am glad to say Worthy does not.

Dowie is over-rated in my opinion (take out Johnson and Palarse would be nothing) and that particular match is a draw - Worthy has fostered as much team spirit without all the attention seeking fan fare.  Dowies face following Fortunes goal was a joy for me I have to say!

I agree with you on Robson - much as it pains and surprises me to say so - the vital insight being the ability to see the need to tighten up defensively (formation not faces - worthy realised tis too late) and bring in Kevin Campell to lead the line.  Perhaps coming in mid term meant that there was no favouritism to over come? 

Redknapp shows he needs a budget to succeed and I agree with you here, and Burley who has justified his place in the worlds top 20 managers as per a recent poll.

I am not sure about McCarthy though.  He took over Sunderland at the end of their last prem season and had no impact and so his first full season was actually the last one.  He took over the side in a far better state than city were in when worthy took over us.  Although they lost players they were able to retain key personnel such as Arca confirms it was not a fire fight.  As such it looks a similar record so I cant decide if I would really want Mick or not.

So out of that list George Burley looks like the obvious candidate.

OTC

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[quote]Just a thought about comparing Worthington with the the three managers involved in relegation from the Premiership and the six managers involved in promotion from the Championship. If it were possib...[/quote]

Can''t really see the logic behind this post as it is most unlikely that any of them would come to Norwich anyway, even if we wanted them, which I don''t think we do. 

Perhaps McCarthy, Jewel and the 3rd promoted Manager will not sound as attractive in 12 months time when there is a realistic possibility that (a) those 3 will have been relegated and (b) Worthington will have got us another promotion.

Six months ago, you wouldn''t have wanted Robson after his performance at Borough, in fact I recall that there was some glee in these parts when he took over at Albion.

Royle and Burley are non starters for obvious reasons.

Personally, I don''t like Dowies style and as for Wilson and Deehan, I think they''ve got a lot to prove.

Let''s be honest here. Since Worthington took over we''ve had exciting seasons and we''ve always been in with a chance of actually achieving something special at the end of each season. OK, we haven''t always pulled things off and got the desired outcome but at least we''ve been in there at the death with a fighting chance.

I''d much prefer this to the years of mediocrity that went before when for year after year our season finished when we got knocked out of the 3rd round of the FA Cup in January.

I agree that Worthington does have his faults but name me one Manager that doesn''t.

He''ll do for me

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Good god Nigel Worthington stands head and shoulders above ALL of those.

He''s made some pretty serious mistakes but he also got us from the brink of division 2 to a refereeing decision away from staying up in the prem.  At the start of last season we had a strikeforce of Iwan Roberts, Zema Abbey and David Nielsen.

Yes Dowie took over a side at the bottom, they did however have 3 of the divisions top scorers from the previous year in Shipperley, Freedman and Johnson.  They also had a host of players who were underperfroming but who were signed for fees we could only dream of.  He took good players and made them gel.  Worthington took v.poor players and made a good team.  He has also showed commendable sportsmanship and good grace in difficult circumstances.

Give the guy a break.

And seriously John Deehan ?

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[quote]DD, that was last season. If you compared McCarthy and Worthy now after the seasons that both teams have had what would you then say.The season that City won the Championship was McCarthy''s first full...[/quote]

True Morph.  McCarthy has done a great job this season getting Sunderland up.  He hasn''t had millions to spend and has done well.  However, I don''t think you can compare Worthy and McCarthy this season.  Worthy managed a team struggling in the Premiership.  McCarthy has managed a team at the top of the 1st Division.  If you look at Worthy''s record as a whole (kept us up, play-off final, 8th and Championship) I think he''s better than McCarthy in the 1st Division.  It''ll be interesting to see how McCarthy does next year in the Prem.  I get the impression he''ll have a similar/slightly smaller transfer budget than Worthy.  It''ll be interesting to see how the two compare 

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to add to the mick mccarthy debate. arca was the only he kept
zip, he had to sell loads of players and balance the books. when he had
done that and it took him time to clear out the rubbish
he bought lots of young unproven players and balanced them
into a very skillful young side. the job he''s done is excellent
and shouldn''t be underestimated. he, like royle and jewell
have to prove something next season. as does robson over a whole
season. but aren''t we escaping the real issue, it doesn''t
matter who he''s better than or not, is he good enough for the league.

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Just to answer two of the replies.

1) The purpose of the post is that there are other managers out there, who if available, would be better managers for NCFC than Worthington. It was just to get some of the posters on this board to see that Worthington is not the be all and end all.

2) Royal and Burley are non starters for "obvious reasons"? Because they have associations with Ipswich? So, we wouldn''t sign Bent if he was available? Or any other Ipswich player?

Royal has managed over 1,000 games and has a wealth of experience and has proven that he can build teams. Burley is one of the most gifted coaches/mangers in the game, as recognized by most impartial observers.

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I never said anything about buying Ipswich players although as you''ve raised the subject, I personally wouldn''t want any of them playing for City.

With regards Managers, we once made the mistake, and a very big mistake, of employing an ex Ipswich manager and if history has taught us anything then surely once is enough.

Besides, IMO Royle & Burley, despite all their undoubted qualities, are not better, or even as good as Worthington

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[quote]to add to the mick mccarthy debate. arca was the only he kept zip, he had to sell loads of players and balance the books. when he had done that and it took him time to clear out the rubbish he bought...[/quote]

True he did the unsentimental thing in culling expensive and aging staff but some cash was always there - and worthy still had to do the same on a far tighter budget.  I think both are pretty similar managers and changing to McCarthy wont benefit us that much - the upheaval involved to get a  similar perform outweighs any benefit.

There are other managers out there who will do well - I for one would like to give Paul Sturock a chance as he tends to play more attractive football and George Burley stands out head and shoulders above any other manager listed on this post.  Ipswich or otherwise his credentials are impeccable.

Of the ones out of work, which are the ones we will really be looking to attract, the likes of Houllier, Strachan (a possible but does the champs attract?) Redknapp, Megson (soon anyway) really add anything?  The options are limited out there and do we really have time for a new man to bed in; it takes a season and a half to turn things to the shape you want.

A good discussion (thanks FMF) it does clarify that many options are not really options at all.

OTBC 

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hey zip i agree with you totally about mick mccarthy not being any
kind of improvement for worthy, but I do think mccarthy
never had the chance to invest in a huckerby.

to throw another name in the hat Gary Johnson
of yeovil, two promotions in three seasons, former coach of
latvia, highly respected in the lower leagues and has a great
passing team.

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