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Bradley Johnson

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]-- morty: Why does there always have to be a negative?

Fans comment on how a player has had a rubbish start to the season shocker.[/quote]You''re like a broken record mate.I''d take a brolly if you''re off out today, it''ll probably rain[Y]

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--- morty: Obviously he isn''t a destroyer like they were ten years ago, despite the fact he hasn''t had a great start to the season, he CAN play a simple pass, seriously if he was that bad would he be getting a game?

Andy Hughes struggled with the basics of passing and was even made captain while you defended the manager of the day.

--- morty: We saw last season that his passing has massively improved, I think, as with most things, it is way too early to be making snap judgements,

Well unless you rate his passing by the proportion of times he found a teammate, if you do, his passing got substantially worse. But indeed there is more to it than just finding your target, a lot depends on the type and difficulty of passes being attempted, and the ability of your teammates to make themselves available for the pass.

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]--- morty: Obviously he isn''t a destroyer like they were ten years ago, despite the fact he hasn''t had a great start to the season, he CAN play a simple pass, seriously if he was that bad would he be getting a game?

Andy Hughes struggled with the basics of passing and was even made captain while you defended the manager of the day.

--- morty: We saw last season that his passing has massively improved, I think, as with most things, it is way too early to be making snap judgements,

Well unless you rate his passing by the proportion of times he found a teammate, if you do, his passing got substantially worse. But indeed there is more to it than just finding your target, a lot depends on the type and difficulty of passes being attempted, and the ability of your teammates to make themselves available for the pass.[/quote]When was the last time you actually you had something positive to say, about Norwich City, the team you "allegedly" support?

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"Andy Hughes struggled with the basics of passing and was even made captain while you defended the manager of the day."So you seriously have issue with me supporting a long gone player and a previous manager, is that what all this is about?Blimey.

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Guys, does every thread have to be a slanging match? The point is, AT THE MOMENT, Johnson''s passing is not good enough, and it''s not enough to say that passing isn''t his game and be happy with it, because HE won''t be happy with his passing stats at the moment.

I just thought it was a point to be discussed, however if this is the result I won''t bother in future.

For the record before someone insists I''m just making him a scapegoat, I like Johnson, I even have his name on the back of a shirt, he''s just had a poor start to the season.

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His passing has been a let down this season. There can be no disputing that. But sometimes what a player brings to the side isn''t so obvious. Every week Gary Holt would be slated for not being up to it. When he wasn''t there other players suddenly seemed to have faults which previously weren''t noticed. I''m not saying we would miss Bradley Johnson in the same way. But I do think it''s a possibility.

 

 

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I''m afraid at Prem level, the minimal acceptable requirement should be that a player, whatever his role, should be two footed and be able to pass accurately atr least 90% of the time. BJ, passes the first criteria, but is lacking in the other one. This is not being "negative"; just a frank assessment of what I''ve seen from BJ . To my mind he is a Championship player who could have a cameo role in the PL . I take it the coaching staff are working on his passing, so things may change.

Tettey, though not perfect, is currently the better bet in that position, imho. I''m sure it''s a role Fer could be good at too.

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How on earth did we used to cope before all these stats were available? Those were the days when we used to discuss it on your tea stall Reggie. "That Hockey bloke can''t pass ferra toffee!"

 

 

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--- nutty nigel: But sometimes what a player brings to the side isn''t so obvious. Every week Gary Holt would be slated for not being up to it. When he wasn''t there other players suddenly seemed to have faults which previously weren''t noticed. I''m not saying we would miss Bradley Johnson in the same way. But I do think it''s a possibility.

I think we would miss what BJ brings to the squad. Players are only human, no player is able to play well week in week out every game of their career. As I see it the issue is that none of either Tettey, BJ or Howson is capable of the range of passing required in that position. BJ + An Other would be ideal. Maybe Fer will be that man.

Gary Holt was unlucky.... 3 lungs was not the the same player after his haemothorax.

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I dont think anyone is saying that BJ lacks the effort, but I simply dont think that a modern team can carry a player who is a simply a tackler. Otherwise, opposition teams will always give him space becuase they know he wont hurt them and they will crowd out the more creative player alongside him. For example, when playing Newcastle, look how teams crowd Cabye and give Tiote space. This isnt personal becuase everyone loves a player who gives 100%, but even Gary Holt at his best wouldnt be enough for the standards of the modern game at the highest level.I agree that Tettey is slightly better (but does CH think so) but he runs out of steam. I simply cant undertsand why we havent tried to find another Fer or a player who can combine the midfiled enforcer role with passing ability. Of the top of my head, I can think of a few players like this (perhaps too expensive for us or not available) in Nzonzi, McCarthy, Lucas etc, but there must be other players out there which can be scouted

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[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]Ref89,Agreed passing isnt his strength. So I have two questions for you:1. Why does he persist and not do as you and I have suggested, lay it off to a passer? Is this because of poor coaching/man management or because the player repeatedly fails to take in the coaching/man management. It has to be one or the other.2. Can any modern team afford the luxury of having one player who wins the ball and tracks, but cant pass. This would place a hue amount of pressure on fer which opposition teams would quickly work out.Having a constructive debate about these issues is not picking a fault in every aspect of the team or club. I have been worried about this for some time and only want us to improve. The inverse to your logic is that we should preserve for perpetuity how we played last season. CH obviously doesnt share this view which is why he dismantled the squad.[/quote]Intresting 2 questions,1. I think BJ needs to understand his own limitaions more, he needs to be aware that the majority of his long/direct/positive passes are pooer than they should be. He needs to be given clear instructions of ''win the ball, pass it short, win the ball, pass it short'' whether this is happening, we just dont know. However, I have experience of having a job to do, and hated it. I was playing for a Football Development Centre and coming from a small town, we didnt have many players to choose from, in thruth we were abit of a raggy lot, abit like Stoke. Out strengths were our 2 big lads up front. Now I was a left winger and liked beating men and shooting, but my job was to''get the ball and cross it'' For them 2 years I hated my football, it was so tedious, however as a team we over achieved and were fairly successful.So whether BJ would be happy ''doing a job'' rather than playing ''his own game'' only he knows, obviously Grant Holt decided he''d rather drop a Divison and enjoy his fooball than stick it out in the Premier League2. Yes I think we could afford to have BJ in that role aslong it is alongside Fer and not Tettey. As I have said earlier in this thread, players that can tackle, pass and create are few and far between and come at a price. Makele made a living out of tackling and playing a 5 yard pass to Lampard. I see no reason why BJ cant excel at this.

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I forgot to mention but I read a brilliant football book on holiday called the The Numbers Game which is trying to be like Moneyball was for baseball. Two of the key themes in this book were the long term correlation between succssion and possession and how the best way to improve a team is not to buy star players per se, but to replace the weakest players in the team. For me, our weakest position has been and still is the holding central midfielders. Fer looks like an upgarde of Howson, but we haven''t upgraded wither BJ or Tettey.Has anyone else read this book - Waterstones are promoting it heavily?

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I''m sorry but in a pivotal role such as the one Johnson is supposed to be playing, you cannot afford (at Premier League level) to consistently play the sloppy pass that Brad plays.

What''s the point in breaking up an attack, to just give the ball away and let a team mate come under pressure.

Not good enough, never has been.

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CDM,Good response - I really would be interested to know whether it is poor coaching or whether BJ doesnt stick to the script, because like you, there is a role for a Makelele, but it does help when your partner is Lampard and the palyers in front of you show movement. The key for me is that the Lampard equivalent (i.e. Fer) has to be skillful enough to handle the pressure of being the sole creative player in the heart of the pitch.

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Johnson is just a bit out of form at the moment - some of his performances last season (especially in the 10 game run) have showed he is more than capable of performing in the Premier League. I imagine that Fer will take his place alongside Tettey on Saturday but it doesn''t mean that Johnson is useless and should be cast to the wind.

 

 

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[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]CDM,Good response - I really would be interested to know whether it is poor coaching or whether BJ doesnt stick to the script, because like you, there is a role for a Makelele, but it does help when your partner is Lampard and the palyers in front of you show movement. The key for me is that the Lampard equivalent (i.e. Fer) has to be skillful enough to handle the pressure of being the sole creative player in the heart of the pitch.[/quote]That we''ll never know, watching BJ play, we can only assume that he is not under any direct instruction to keep it simple or short.I have high hopes for Fer, I really hope he can be a driving force, much like Yaya Toure, positive, direct and strong. As you say his link-up with Our No.10, RVW and the 2 wingers is key.

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CDM/Bethnal,Agree with both of you, but let''s hope Fer stays fit and keeps form as we dont have any cover. Howson for me is clearly a contender for the crowded AM slot and not a deep creative player.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Downloads"]

No I was saying your Hoolahan thread was negative, at least I couldn''t see any positives in it. You asked questions but went on to say he couldn''t play on the wing and was lightweight in the tackle without pointing out his good points.

 

Johnson is a midfield destroyer who when he wins the ball, promptly gives it back to the other team. Not a lot of debate about that one.

 

Can''t afford to have someone in the team who doesn''t have a clue what to do with a football.

 

Anyway, i''m off to Winterton with the kids to do some skimming. I''ll respond to your inevitable reply when I get back.

[/quote]Oh sorry, you just want to put your point across, but have no interest in mine?"Doesn''t have a clue what to do with a football" Yeah, thats incisive football analysis right there, I bow to your superior debating skills.Hoolahan has always been an enigma, how you saw my thread is up to you.Enjoy your day[Y][/quote]

 

Actually morty I do have an interest in your opinion, whilst I may not be a prolific poster on here I tend to agree with most of your views - I''m definitely in the positive camp, would keep Hughton all day long etc.

 

I guess I was just frustrated at your view when you posted to say ''does there always have to be a negative?'', when I wouldn''t say the OP was overly negative, yet you created a post re Hoolahan with negative leanings.

 

I guess I believe people can post whatever they like as long as its about Norwich football.

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[quote user="Downloads"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Downloads"]

No I was saying your Hoolahan thread was negative, at least I couldn''t see any positives in it. You asked questions but went on to say he couldn''t play on the wing and was lightweight in the tackle without pointing out his good points.

 

Johnson is a midfield destroyer who when he wins the ball, promptly gives it back to the other team. Not a lot of debate about that one.

 

Can''t afford to have someone in the team who doesn''t have a clue what to do with a football.

 

Anyway, i''m off to Winterton with the kids to do some skimming. I''ll respond to your inevitable reply when I get back.

[/quote]Oh sorry, you just want to put your point across, but have no interest in mine?"Doesn''t have a clue what to do with a football" Yeah, thats incisive football analysis right there, I bow to your superior debating skills.Hoolahan has always been an enigma, how you saw my thread is up to you.Enjoy your day[Y][/quote]

 

Actually morty I do have an interest in your opinion, whilst I may not be a prolific poster on here I tend to agree with most of your views - I''m definitely in the positive camp, would keep Hughton all day long etc.

 

I guess I was just frustrated at your view when you posted to say ''does there always have to be a negative?'', when I wouldn''t say the OP was overly negative, yet you created a post re Hoolahan with negative leanings.

 

I guess I believe people can post whatever they like as long as its about Norwich football.

[/quote]I wasn''t necessarily talking just about the op. We had to suffer the ridiculous bottom lip sticking out after the result on Saturday. We have a cracking result last night, but still people manage to find a negative, that was my point, could folks just not, for a day or two at least, be happy for the team?My thread about Hoolahan was not based on how he played on Saturday, it was a general question, based on the fact that we have struggled to shoehorn him into lineups over the years, and that given we have more midfielders to choose from, as genuine first team starters, has the dilemma become unsolvable.

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Well I would agree with you there - The negativity and calling for heads is ridiculous so early on, ridiculous full stop unless we are heading for complete catastrophe without a change of direction at Xmas.

 

I don''t agree with everything, I hate it that we are so defensive in the middle of the park, but hey, different strokes for different folks.

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[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]Ref89,Agreed passing isnt his strength. So I have two questions for you:1. Why does he persist and not do as you and I have suggested, lay it off to a passer? Is this because of poor coaching/man management or because the player repeatedly fails to take in the coaching/man management. It has to be one or the other.2. Can any modern team afford the luxury of having one player who wins the ball and tracks, but cant pass. This would place a hue amount of pressure on fer which opposition teams would quickly work out.Having a constructive debate about these issues is not picking a fault in every aspect of the team or club. I have been worried about this for some time and only want us to improve. The inverse to your logic is that we should preserve for perpetuity how we played last season. CH obviously doesnt share this view which is why he dismantled the squad.[/quote]

Sometimes I think Johnson being left to play the ball could be down to the opposition rather than coaching instructions. If a team can identify one player as a weaker passer, they can afford him more space and focus on cutting off his options knowing he won''t be so likely to penetrate. I read that this is how Napoli beat Man City a couple of seasons ago; they identified Nigel de Jong as a poorer passer so allowed the play to go through him and marked the danger men.

I don''t know whether this is the case but it would seem strange for the coaching team to encourage so much of the play to go through him, as it seemed to do away at Hull. I like Johnson a lot and would keep him around the first team depending on who we play, but I thought that away at Hull we created as many problems as we solved by having two defensive midfielders because of the poor ball retention. To be fair to Hughton he addressed this early on in the game.

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Northern Canary,Precisely the point that I was trying to make. If our supply line to the forwards/wingers is largely dependent on Fer, then all you need to do to close us down is overweight the marking on Fer. I like Johnson too for his commitment to the cause, but somehow cant reconcile how we can afford to accomodate someone who cant pass well enough in the other DM role. Even if he was simply to give the ball to Fer most of the time, this would simply be too obvious.

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He was my man of the match, didn''t put a foot wrong. Immense. I can''t even remember one pass going astray. We are lucky to have him.

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