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Gaz06

Clubs wage structure

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Just been reading this article about Toivonen on Sky Sports

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11709/8911803/transfer-news-ola-toivonen-has-no-regrets-about-snubbing-move-to-norwich

Seems the only reason he turned us down because werent offering him the lucrative wages he desired! It''s good to see that the club won''t be bullied into breaking our wage budget by players, unlike other clubs in the league, West Ham naming one!

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[quote user="Manchester Canary"]Just been reading this article about Toivonen on Sky Sports

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11709/8911803/transfer-news-ola-toivonen-has-no-regrets-about-snubbing-move-to-norwich

Seems the only reason he turned us down because werent offering him the lucrative wages he desired! It''s good to see that the club won''t be bullied into breaking our wage budget by players, unlike other clubs in the league, West Ham naming one![/quote]

The quote is:"The clubs were happy with the agreement, but I did not get what I wanted." Toivonen told Expressen. "I am happy in Holland and the family enjoy themselves and if I don''t get what I want, I don''t move."So he doesn''t specifically talk about wages, but does mention family reasons. It may be the wages we were offering were part of what he meant by not getting what he wanted but it seems he partly (or entirely) meant it in a more general way - that he didn''t feel the move itself was right for him.

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"Either the club do not want or you don''t get the conditions you want or the club do not want to sell you."

that''s the quote that has me leaning towards MCs train of thought. obviously this is all down to translation/language but I would of thought there would be a different word other than conditions if it wasn''t contract reasons.

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Strange how these things turn out. For whatever reason we don''t get the player we bid £4.7M but we do get the player who keeps him out of his national team, Elmander, at much lower costs. Sounds like a win, win situation for us.

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[quote user="Jack Flash"]Strange how these things turn out. For whatever reason we don''t get the player we bid £4.7M but we do get the player who keeps him out of his national team, Elmander, at much lower costs. Sounds like a win, win situation for us.[/quote]

 

In the short term. Elmander is 32, won''t have any sell-on value, and may well only last us a season. Toivonen is 27 and would be a much longer-term buy. Hence the price difference.As to whether we would have had to break our wage structure for Toivonen, who knows? There are other aspects to a contract besides the basic wage. Its length, for example. And Toivonen does mention his (presumably young) family as a factor. If his demands were exhorbitant then we were right not to meet them, but bear in mind that we have made wage offers tempting enough to attract Fer, van Wolfswinkel, Olsson and Hooper.

 

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Conditions can mean many things and this one suggests it is something outside of simply wages.

Maybe it was the amount of time he could spend back in Holland and who would pay for the flights etc

I think fans should remember that not all players see the game (their job) in purely and absolute financial terms ie biggest wage possible.

And also City would have known what his wages were and what he was expecting BEFORE negotiations even began. The only variable would have been a change in conditions ie he was moving to the UK. That would be where and ''disagreement'' would have happened.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Jack Flash"]Strange how these things turn out. For whatever reason we don''t get the player we bid £4.7M but we do get the player who keeps him out of his national team, Elmander, at much lower costs. Sounds like a win, win situation for us.[/quote]

 

In the short term. Elmander is 32, won''t have any sell-on value, and may well only last us a season. Toivonen is 27 and would be a much longer-term buy. Hence the price difference.As to whether we would have had to break our wage structure for Toivonen, who knows? There are other aspects to a contract besides the basic wage. Its length, for example. And Toivonen does mention his (presumably young) family as a factor. If his demands were exhorbitant then we were right not to meet them, but bear in mind that we have made wage offers tempting enough to attract Fer, van Wolfswinkel, Olsson and Hooper.

 [/quote]

All this makes you wonder what our wage structure is now.

Last season it was always supposed that Holt was maybe our top earner on around £25K a week Since then players like Fer, Hooper, Redmond and van Wolfswinkel must be on way more than that, one or two perhaps on as much as £50K ?

Wage structures work tend to work best with your existing players as Arsenal have found out to their cost. They''ve now had to virtually treble their previous wage ceiling to land Ozil as a '' panic buy '' on around £200K. That''s a big gamble even for a club of Arsenal''s size.

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I don''t think any of our players will be on around 50k, as one of the reason why the Alderweireld deal broke down was because of his wage demands (that and him waiting for a bigger club). I could be wrong but I thought McNally said that our wage bill will be rising quite a bit in the next year, so i''d imagine we do have more 30k + earners on our books. I know Bassong is definitely on that but Tottenham are still paying some of his wages, bonus!!

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"s one of the reason why the Alderweireld deal broke down was because of his wage demands (that and him waiting for a bigger club)."

absolute nonsense

negotiations don''t even begin until both parties are fairly clear what the demands from the other side are

do you really think that this sort of stuff is not discussed when initial contact is made through the agents ?

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City 1st - Well of course that goes on, but the goal posts can always be changed. Agents will always try and get more for their clients.

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Sure and clubs will be doing the reverse, but from my understanding negotiations would not have even begun had those parameters not been accepted by both sides.

Where the real haggling goes on is in the various clauses, where unfortunately an agent is an absolute must as players will not always understand or fully appreciate the implications of certain clauses.

In that light I would be very certain that any failure to agree terms was not over wages, or that the player was demanding too much - it would simply be a matter of those ''hidden extras''. Which might well appear negligible initially but can have a very onerous effect further down the line.

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[quote user="City1st"]Conditions can mean many things and this one suggests it is something outside of simply wages.

Maybe it was the amount of time he could spend back in Holland and who would pay for the flights etc.[/quote]I suspect the cost of flying from Norwich to Amsterdam and back would have been the equivalent of you or me buying a can of Heinz Baked Beans.

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I suspect the cost of flying from Norwich to Amsterdam and back would have been the equivalent of you or me buying a can of Heinz Baked Beans.

-------------------------------------------------------------

agreed.

a club can know what they''re making on their current contract, but not always what bump they want in a new one at a new club.

I may be wrong but hadn''t Ola said he wanted to go to the prem?

and to back up my point RE wages, didn''t VW turn down a move from celtic - soton due to the wages offered? obviously one party gave in eventually, but still.

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Likewise many other clauses, but they happen - and that one was merely a suggested point not a definite example.

Still, well done for trying.

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"obviously one party gave in eventually, but still."

oh dear,

the clue is in the word negotiation (see above)

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Celtic agreed a fee of £12 million with Southampton and it was thought that Wanyama would be on his way to St Mary’s this summer however, his agent has said that those talks have broken down.

“We are not in talks with Southampton and have not been since their final offer of terms, which was more than two weeks ago,” his agent Ivan Modia told Sky Sports.

-------------------------------------------------

well sorry, City 1st. but I''m more inclined to believe reports from an agent than someone who only posts in a condescending manner.

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[quote user="City1st"]Likewise many other clauses, but they happen - and that one was merely a suggested point not a definite example.

Still, well done for trying.[/quote]Thank you.Try harder.

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

[quote user="Jack Flash"]Strange how these things turn out. For whatever reason we don''t get the player we bid £4.7M but we do get the player who keeps him out of his national team, Elmander, at much lower costs. Sounds like a win, win situation for us.[/quote]

 

In the short term. Elmander is 32, won''t have any sell-on value, and may well only last us a season. Toivonen is 27 and would be a much longer-term buy. Hence the price difference.As to whether we would have had to break our wage structure for Toivonen, who knows? There are other aspects to a contract besides the basic wage. Its length, for example. And Toivonen does mention his (presumably young) family as a factor. If his demands were exhorbitant then we were right not to meet them, but bear in mind that we have made wage offers tempting enough to attract Fer, van Wolfswinkel, Olsson and Hooper.

 [/quote]

All this makes you wonder what our wage structure is now.

Last season it was always supposed that Holt was maybe our top earner on around £25K a week Since then players like Fer, Hooper, Redmond and van Wolfswinkel must be on way more than that, one or two perhaps on as much as £50K ?

Wage structures work tend to work best with your existing players as Arsenal have found out to their cost. They''ve now had to virtually treble their previous wage ceiling to land Ozil as a '' panic buy '' on around £200K. That''s a big gamble even for a club of Arsenal''s size.

[/quote]

 

The problem being that the latest available figures are always at least one season out of date and sometimes - as now - two seasons behind. That said, a hallmark of Smith and Jones''s control of the club has been an avoidance of obvious financial risk (our 2009 troubles were more a culmination of several factors). I would be surprised if we have gone for broke on wages.

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i''m only guessing but i would suspect the players are on a fairly low wage with a bonus structure in place based around league/ cup performance or getting into Europe?

just speculating....

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As much of a money grabber he seems, i''m disappointed we couldn''t agree terms with him, not in the club, just in the general scheme of things. He could have been a handy player and has a similar set of qualities Michu has.

I guess Elmander is the stop gap for that role and we''ll try again in summer to plug the gap long term.

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The difference was that when we agreed the transfer fee, PSV were still in the Champions League qualifiers, and Ola probably thought he could do better. I don''t see much difference between him and Toby in terms of approach, the difference being that Atletico Madrid came in for Toby. Maybe Ola was just holding out for a better offer that never came, and when he realised that, we were no longer interested. 

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