Away games

[shefcanary 2,407]

Some facetious comments then a serious one!

Bradders needs to have a shave. Then we''ll start playing.

I''ve been out of the loop as been on lads weekend so didn''t catch the game. Was Snoddy crap again?

Wonder if Hughton has been speaking to Garth Crooks recently. Garth said the other Saturday that he had told Hughton that he needed to entertain us fans or we might turn on him - very perceptive that Garth. Hughton were you listening?

[SwindonCanary 455]

Next away, Stoke ! And it''s live on the tele. I can see why the club are subsidizing the away traveling fans on this one !

[hogesar 9,671]

After a calm down (very frustrated on Sat!) I think it''s fair to say:

- There''s nothing wrong with setting up defensively against a team like Spurs.

- Losing 2-0 isn''t that bad

- Spurs were very, very good.

My issue, isn''t that we set-up defensively. It''s that we didn''t look to change things when it wasn''t working. It doesn''t mean Hughton should go but it does mean it''s something for him to look at improving.

When you''re 2-0 down 50 minutes into a game where you haven''t looked close to being in it - common sense dictates you need to change something. Nothing really changed.

Substitutions were hardly inspiring. What was the point in bringing Tettey on? Don''t understand.

What was the point in bringing Howson on? If you''re going to bring him on, bring him on straight after the second goal.

I''d have changed it at half time personally, we were completely out of the game and a couple of changes might just have helped us a bit.

[Yella Foreva 0]

Morty after a year and a bit in charge i think it is fairly obvious that Hughtons tactics are to sit back, be solid and try to hit on the break.A simple change in the way you approach a game can make a massive differnce.Look at Villa (Ignore that Lamberts there), They went away to Arsenal and were expected to lose, pressed from the front, closed down defenders, didnt give them room to breath and won. Cardiff at home against Man City pressed from the front in a game they were expected to lose and came away with the win.Everton at home to Chelsea, they werent expected to win but again pressed high up the pitch and got a win.I realise two of the recent examples were home games but they were games they werent expected to win.I''m not expecting us to go to these places and play attractive football and dominate the ball but there is no reason we cant match other times style of play when we dont have the ball.I have not seen one other team this year and last, sit as deep as us without the ball.We could play 3 holding midfielders (When playing a big club) in Tettey, Fer and Johnson, that wouldnt make it a more defensive line up because if we win the ball back in the opposition half more often then we are already being more offensive.I played to a fairly decent standard (Ridgeons Prem with Lowestoft) and i know that i as a player would of prefered to of gone out and tried to win the ball back high up the pitch than constantly sit deep and try defend wave after wave of attack, it must be demoralising.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Yella Foreva"]Morty after a year and a bit in charge i think it is fairly obvious that Hughtons tactics are to sit back, be solid and try to hit on the break.A simple change in the way you approach a game can make a massive differnce.Look at Villa (Ignore that Lamberts there), They went away to Arsenal and were expected to lose, pressed from the front, closed down defenders, didnt give them room to breath and won. Cardiff at home against Man City pressed from the front in a game they were expected to lose and came away with the win.Everton at home to Chelsea, they werent expected to win but again pressed high up the pitch and got a win.I realise two of the recent examples were home games but they were games they werent expected to win.I''m not expecting us to go to these places and play attractive football and dominate the ball but there is no reason we cant match other times style of play when we dont have the ball.I have not seen one other team this year and last, sit as deep as us without the ball.We could play 3 holding midfielders (When playing a big club) in Tettey, Fer and Johnson, that wouldnt make it a more defensive line up because if we win the ball back in the opposition half more often then we are already being more offensive.I played to a fairly decent standard (Ridgeons Prem with Lowestoft) and i know that i as a player would of prefered to of gone out and tried to win the ball back high up the pitch than constantly sit deep and try defend wave after wave of attack, it must be demoralising.

[/quote]My point is still that you cut your cloth accordingly. We have good players here, but they have to be playing at the very peak of their game for us to be effective.Two or three players were not on their game on Saturday and we were totally outclassed.So how come Hughton can often be seen waving the players up the field then? Surely he wouldn''t be doing that if he had previously told them to sit deep?

[Cerberus 0]

Morty - "So how come Hughton can often be seen waving the players up the field

then? Surely he wouldn''t be doing that if he had previously told them to

sit deep?"This then implies that the players are not playing to Hughton''s more attack minded strategy then. Why do you think they are ignoring his advice and sitting too deep?

[morty 0]

[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]Morty - "So how come Hughton can often be seen waving the players up the field

then? Surely he wouldn''t be doing that if he had previously told them to

sit deep?"This then implies that the players are not playing to Hughton''s more attack minded strategy then. Why do you think they are ignoring his advice and sitting too deep?[/quote]It is a natural stance taken when a team is underconfident.So are we now going to go along the lines of how Hughton has destroyed the players confidence with his negative tactics?

[Cerberus 0]

Not at all, but I think you have hit the nail on the head Morty. If we carry on like this away from home, it is only a matter of time before it spills over in our home games, where we are desperately reliant on points. Players are not robots that suddenly play badly one week and reasonably next week (note neither Everton or Saints games were great). Sooner or later they settle in to a pattern of playing the same week in and week out. The question for me is which is it going to be. Hughtton has a real job on his hands and I would start with shaking up some of the lethargy in the squad brought upon playing the same players in the same position each week irrespective of their form.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

--- morty: It is a natural stance taken when a team is underconfident. So are we now going to go along the lines of how Hughton has destroyed the players confidence with his negative tactics?

I don''t think defensive tactics will ever help the confidence of the strikers. And that is no criticism of Hughton either.

The simple fact is a lot of clubs are now playing just like we do, scrapping through games playing with a defensive mindset. It is deemed to be a successful way of getting the points to stay up.

For me, I obviously hope we stay up and think we will playing in this manner. I also hope a team like Swansea, and to a far lesser extent Villa do well just to prove it is not the only way to stay in the division.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]Not at all, but I think you have hit the nail on the head Morty. If we carry on like this away from home, it is only a matter of time before it spills over in our home games, where we are desperately reliant on points. Players are not robots that suddenly play badly one week and reasonably next week (note neither Everton or Saints games were great). Sooner or later they settle in to a pattern of playing the same week in and week out. The question for me is which is it going to be. Hughtton has a real job on his hands and I would start with shaking up some of the lethargy in the squad brought upon playing the same players in the same position each week irrespective of their form.[/quote]I disagree. We were awful away from home last season too, but still played well at Carrow road.

[Cerberus 0]

I am afraid that we will have to disagree then, but if you thought that most of the home performances in the last half of the season were not awful then you must have been watching different matches to me. I remember Newscatle with particular horror - two sides desperate not to lose and happy to settle for a point. This approach is not in our DNA.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]I am afraid that we will have to disagree then, but if you thought that most of the home performances in the last half of the season were not awful then you must have been watching different matches to me. I remember Newscatle with particular horror - two sides desperate not to lose and happy to settle for a point. This approach is not in our DNA.[/quote]Do you think we have a God given right to beat every single team that comes to Carrow road?

[Cerberus 0]

No, but I expect us to go for it every time, especially at home where we have the crowd advantage.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Louis Cyphre"]No, but I expect us to go for it every time, especially at home where we have the crowd advantage.[/quote]Define "Go for it" I assume you mean try and win the game?Well, yeah, thats pretty obvious.But you do accept that sometimes you need to play the clever game and all out "Attack attack attack" isn''t always the best approach?

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Yella Foreva"]Wow Nicko...Players got the basics wrong, Ive heard it all now.The reason we lost that game is because Hughtons tactics played right into Tottenhams hands.We sat deep, meaning that when we had the ball and tried to play Tottenham were pressing us high up the pitch.This resulted in us either losing the ball or trying to turn them round and giving the ball straight back to them.If Hughton had of set our players out to press high up the pitch instead of line up deep in two banks of 4 (And Elmander) then we would of been far more effective in this match.2 claim that the players were at fault and it was nothing to do with Hughton is ridiculous!P.S im not a Hughton out man but somehting has to change in relation to his philosiphy (Away games in particular).[/quote]what do you think would have happened, given the pace in the spurs side, if we had played higher up the pitch?I suspect you are one of these fans who thinks the best way to catch a team offside is to defend on the half way line.....

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="hogesar"] What was the point in bringing Tettey on? Don''t understand. .[/quote]I can hopefully explain a bit. The strikers were not getting any service whatsoever. Johnson might as well not have been on the pitch and Fer was struggling trying to contain an entire midfield on his own (his half ar$ed tackle led to the 2nd goal).The fans screaming for Hooper have failed to see the obvious, if a striker isn''t getting the ball how will bringing another one (And possibly weakening another area) change this? it wouldn''t have... it would have been no improvement.Tettey broke play up, moved into space and was passing better. This opened Spurs up a little bit and meant we had a few more chances. he should have come on after 1-0... we would still have a lost, but Spurs would have probably had to change formation to adapt.

[Cerberus 0]

Jas,Agreed. But do you think that CH saw what you and I saw? What''s the betting that BJ is preferred yet aagin on Saturday. We will know as soon as the Watford line up is announced.

[Yella Foreva 0]

Jas The Barclay KingThats it mate, The best way to try and make an argument is to throw around half hearted insults, top guy!I know the game well, i''d dare say better than you through the level i played at but lets not get into that.If we had of pressed high up the pitch then yes there is a chance of getting caught in behind.However Spurs do not play the long ball and if they had managed to play through our front line of pressing and the midfield you would like to think that Bassong would of dropped the backline 10 yards deeper by this point. Not only that but the only player Tottenham played with an abundance of pace was Townsend, all others have a yard but are not electric.I suspect you are one of the fans that think the best way to play is to line up on your 6 yard box so you cannot get caught in behind?

[deltic31 13]

I''ll leave this argument as I have not played at a high level and am therefore not entitled to an opinion!

[Yella Foreva 0]

deltic31 - Where has anyone suggested that?

[Syteanric 1]

[quote user="Yella Foreva"]Jas The Barclay KingThats it mate, The best way to try and make an argument is to throw around half hearted insults, top guy!I know the game well, i''d dare say better than you through the level i played at but lets not get into that.If we had of pressed high up the pitch then yes there is a chance of getting caught in behind.However Spurs do not play the long ball and if they had managed to play through our front line of pressing and the midfield you would like to think that Bassong would of dropped the backline 10 yards deeper by this point. Not only that but the only player Tottenham played with an abundance of pace was Townsend, all others have a yard but are not electric.I suspect you are one of the fans that think the best way to play is to line up on your 6 yard box so you cannot get caught in behind?[/quote]far from it, the defence should line up just in front of the penalty area, only entering if an opponent is in it... this makes it extremely difficult to penetrate for even a good team... Inter Milan wining champions league is prime example...

[Yella Foreva 0]

JasHowever when playing that way (Especially when you are an average at best side) against good sides and you gain possesion, you tend to give the ball straight back to the opposition and find it increasingly hard to get our of your own half. Norwich City since the start of the 2012 season for example.

[Syteanric 1]

all depends on movement off the ball and awareness from the players.keep the ball and the opposition cant score....

[hogesar 9,671]

[quote user="jas the barclay king"][quote user="hogesar"] What was the point in bringing Tettey on? Don''t understand. .[/quote]I can hopefully explain a bit. The strikers were not getting any service whatsoever. Johnson might as well not have been on the pitch and Fer was struggling trying to contain an entire midfield on his own (his half ar$ed tackle led to the 2nd goal).The fans screaming for Hooper have failed to see the obvious, if a striker isn''t getting the ball how will bringing another one (And possibly weakening another area) change this? it wouldn''t have... it would have been no improvement.Tettey broke play up, moved into space and was passing better. This opened Spurs up a little bit and meant we had a few more chances. he should have come on after 1-0... we would still have a lost, but Spurs would have probably had to change formation to adapt.[/quote]

Fair response, and I see what you''re getting at but i can''t really agree because I don''t rate Tettey and he was almost as anonymous as BJ for me, at a time where Spurs had relaxed and weren''t pushing so hard for a winning second goal.

Begs the question where was Hoolahan? He''s always a player than can make a difference in games. Would have been a better option than Tettey.

And i can understand fans calling for Hooper - nothing to say him or RVW couldn''t have come deeper if they weren''t getting the service and try to create for themselves.