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deltic31

Away games

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I am not anti Hughton but I am questioning his outlook on away games. We seem to form the opinion that we don''t stand a chance of winning them so we set out not to lose.

If we carry on like this we will lose our fantastic away support. I have not been to an away game for 2 years.

Had I been at Spurs I would have been seriously pissed off.

We cannot just rely on home form, we must at least try to score. First corner in the last ten minutes says it all!

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The reason we didn''t try to score a goal is because Spurs tried very hard to win the ball back when we lost it. Nothing to do with Hughton, players just got the basics wrong.

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Wow Nicko...Players got the basics wrong, Ive heard it all now.The reason we lost that game is because Hughtons tactics played right into Tottenhams hands.We sat deep, meaning that when we had the ball and tried to play Tottenham were pressing us high up the pitch.This resulted in us either losing the ball or trying to turn them round and giving the ball straight back to them.If Hughton had of set our players out to press high up the pitch instead of line up deep in two banks of 4 (And Elmander) then we would of been far more effective in this match.2 claim that the players were at fault and it was nothing to do with Hughton is ridiculous!P.S im not a Hughton out man but somehting has to change in relation to his philosiphy (Away games in particular).

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No. This is wrong. Spurs have better players than us, you really do need to accept this.

We will not go to all the big clubs and outplay them.

We lost yesterday because Spurs were better than us in ever department. We failed to retain the ball in the middle of the pitch hence why we were overrun. Hughton bought on 2 players capable of retaining the ball and sacrificed players who gave it away cheaply. For this period, we were MUCH better. FACT.

This vendetta people have against CH is embarrassing, be careful what you wish for.

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I am not saying that we should outplay them. I am saying that we owe it to our fans to at least try to score. Wolfswinkel must be questioning his decision to join us!

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[quote user="Nicko"]If we''d played in a more attacking formation we would have gone down 6 or 7-0 nil.[/quote]^^^This.

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Did Wolfy not watch us last season? Things don''t change overnight. Perhaps Hooper could be the ''willing runner'' we''re missing for away days either alongside RVW or instead of him.

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[quote user="deltic31"]I am not saying that we should outplay them. I am saying that we owe it to our fans to at least try to score. Wolfswinkel must be questioning his decision to join us![/quote]

I''m sure the players did try to score - after all that is the aim of the game. The point you''re missing though is that Spurs were BETTER than us. They didn''t allow us to score.

There is nothing else to it.

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If you took a straw poll of the fans that attended on Saturday, I don''t think you will find that many felt that we tried very hard!

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[quote user="Nicko"][quote user="deltic31"]I am not saying that we should outplay them. I am saying that we owe it to our fans to at least try to score. Wolfswinkel must be questioning his decision to join us![/quote]

I''m sure the players did try to score - after all that is the aim of the game. The point you''re missing though is that Spurs were BETTER than us. They didn''t allow us to score.

There is nothing else to it.[/quote]Its quite embarrassing that people can actually hold the opinion that footballers would take the pitch and just not bother trying.

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[quote user="deltic31"]I am not in the least bit embarrased. I think that one or two of our players should be though![/quote]Do you honestly believe that players would take to the field thinking "Pfffft, I can''t really be bothered today"?Really?

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Watching the game, can you honestly say that that was satisfactory?

Do we just write off the top ten clubs and say we stand no chance against them lets just try to limit them to 3-0?

That seems to be our plan!

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[quote user="deltic31"]Watching the game, can you honestly say that that was satisfactory?

Do we just write off the top ten clubs and say we stand no chance against them lets just try to limit them to 3-0?

That seems to be our plan![/quote]You didn''t answer my question.

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Nicko"No. This is wrong. Spurs have better players than us, you really do need to accept this

"Not once have i sggested that Spurs dont have better players than us, please point out where i did so."We will not go to all the big clubs and outplay them"Not once have i suggested this either, however Hughtons tactical approach to away games (Look back to last season) clearly isnt working and needs to be revised."We lost yesterday because Spurs were better than us in ever department.

We failed to retain the ball in the middle of the pitch hence why we

were overrun. Hughton bought on 2 players capable of retaining the ball

and sacrificed players who gave it away cheaply. For this period, we

were MUCH better. FACT.

"You are correct that part of the reason we lost was because Spurs were better than us in every department. The reason we failed to retain the ball is because we were so deep when recieving it and our players couldnt relax when in possesion / are not good enough to retain the ball in tight situations. If Hughton sets his team out to press 20 yards higher up the pitch this would enable us to keep the ball better when in possesion as the players will not be scared of losing it as we are not so close to our goal. So you are admitting that Hughton got it wrong tactically as when he made the changes we were better, thought he wasnt to blame?"This vendetta people have against CH is embarrassing, be careful what you wish for."Please read my previous post properly. I am not a Hughton out man and have not wished for anything but somehting has to change in relation to his philosiphy (Away games in particular). Look at West Ham away last season, Stoke away last Season, Hull away this season and Tottenham. The last time we won away from home when it mattered was Peterborough (Man City excluded as we went there with the shackles off), the time before that was Swansea in December 2012. We do not look like winning (or drawing) away from home and something has to be done. Again just for you Nicko....I DO NOT WANT HIM SACKED, he led us to a good league position last year but he needs to see his away from home formular isnt working.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="deltic31"]I am not in the least bit embarrased. I think that one or two of our players should be though![/quote]Do you honestly believe that players would take to the field thinking "Pfffft, I can''t really be bothered today"?Really?[/quote]

Damian Francis did ;)

And of course players don''t intend to go out to not be bothered. But they are human. Things happen. Its easy to spot when a whole team falls apart, Man.C at home under Lambert, we''d been playing fantastically, should have scored a goal or two, then around 70 mins Aguero took on our whole team, scored and all that effort was for nothing and they players were just gone. If one or two players has that attitude for whatever reason, not intentionally, its going to effect the whole team.

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[quote user="Gingerpele"][quote user="morty"][quote user="deltic31"]I am not in the least bit embarrased. I think that one or two of our players should be though![/quote]Do you honestly believe that players would take to the field thinking "Pfffft, I can''t really be bothered today"?Really?[/quote]

Damian Francis did ;)

And of course players don''t intend to go out to not be bothered. But they are human. Things happen. Its easy to spot when a whole team falls apart, Man.C at home under Lambert, we''d been playing fantastically, should have scored a goal or two, then around 70 mins Aguero took on our whole team, scored and all that effort was for nothing and they players were just gone. If one or two players has that attitude for whatever reason, not intentionally, its going to effect the whole team.[/quote]I''ll assume by the wink that you don''t really even believe yourself that the comparison is in any way valid.[;)]

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Listen to Ruddy''s interview after the game. That sums up the players'' attitude to our tactics.

Grant Holt effectively said the same.

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Yes is the answer Morty.

I am normally of the ''happy clapper'' type of fan but after Saturdays performance something has to change!

Our tactics played right into Spurs hands.

It was obvious that we needed to change things at half time but nothing was done.We never looked like scoring.

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[quote user="deltic31"]Yes is the answer Morty.

I am normally of the ''happy clapper'' type of fan but after Saturdays performance something has to change!

Our tactics played right into Spurs hands.

It was obvious that we needed to change things at half time but nothing was done.We never looked like scoring.[/quote]So the players just couldn''t be bothered?Really?What were the tactics on Saturday then?I suspect they were "Keep it tight and try and nick a point" which I think you''ll find, thats probably the way most Premiership teams set themselves out away from home.Now, the fact is that we weren''t good enough on the day, but all this claptrap about setting out to lose is ridiculous.Hughton made the changes, how many did we score after that then? What does this tell you?

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I agree with you Morty however there are different ways to try and nick a point.Sit in your own half in your two banks of 4 (And Elmander) clearly wasn''t working from the 1st Min.If you play anyteam and chose to sit in your own half and not squeeze/pressure a team you will inevatibly concede at some point.The most notable thing for me was how we were happy to let Spurs defenders receive the ball from Lloris(Allowing them to start attacks freely) but when Ruddy had the ball they pressed us right high forcing us to long and give them the ball back.I dont expect us to match them technically but why cant we match them without the ball?You cannot go to a team that are expected to qualify for the Champions League (Minimum), sit in your half and try to nick a point/hit them on the break.

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We are not good enough on the day for 90% of our away matches. Hull was a good example.

How can we go to Hull with the same attitude FFS!

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[quote user="Yella Foreva"]I agree with you Morty however there are different ways to try and nick a point.Sit in your own half in your two banks of 4 (And Elmander) clearly wasn''t working from the 1st Min.If you play anyteam and chose to sit in your own half and not squeeze/pressure a team you will inevatibly concede at some point.The most notable thing for me was how we were happy to let Spurs defenders receive the ball from Lloris(Allowing them to start attacks freely) but when Ruddy had the ball they pressed us right high forcing us to long and give them the ball back.I dont expect us to match them technically but why cant we match them without the ball?You cannot go to a team that are expected to qualify for the Champions League (Minimum), sit in your half and try to nick a point/hit them on the break.[/quote]The irony of it is that I think Hughton actually went too positive.The reality of it is that we just weren''t good enough. Bradley had a terrible game, I''m sure he''ll hold his own hand up to that. And his position was key to Saturday. The fact he didn''t impose himself on the game had a knock on effect throughout the whole team, we were second best and chasing the game. I''m not scapegoating him, by the way, but his position is one of the most vital in away games.

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Think we will have to agree to disagree on this one Morty.We could of played 10 strikers in my opinion and we still would of been too defensive. Its not the players that you pick but the way in which you ask them to play.Again i believe that Johnson''s best attribute is putting players under pressure by chasing them, if he is asked to keep his shape in a 10 yard square in his bank of 4 then he cannot play to his true ability. (Thought Fer was worse than Johnson).There are many people stating that its Spurs and we weren''t expected to get anything, They are right and i could accept it if it was a one off but this is how the team is laid out for every away game (Not just big teams).

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[quote user="Yella Foreva"]Think we will have to agree to disagree on this one Morty.We could of played 10 strikers in my opinion and we still would of been too defensive. Its not the players that you pick but the way in which you ask them to play.Again i believe that Johnson''s best attribute is putting players under pressure by chasing them, if he is asked to keep his shape in a 10 yard square in his bank of 4 then he cannot play to his true ability. (Thought Fer was worse than Johnson).There are many people stating that its Spurs and we weren''t expected to get anything, They are right and i could accept it if it was a one off but this is how the team is laid out for every away game (Not just big teams).[/quote]The trouble is that we have had two away games this season to form an opinion on how we play. People are making judgements based on our away form last season as well. Different players, different season. I''m not happy with things either, but I''m willing to wait and see, rather than make snap judgements.

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Different players, different season, Same Tactics.I wouldnt mind if we had played two and lost two but we had seen Hughton notice that something wasnt right and had tried to change it.I just dont see any ideas from him as to how he is going to go about improving our away form.If our home form isnt as good this year (Im sure it will be) then we could really struggle.Its the start of the season and soooo long to play but to see no change in Hughtons struggling ethos worries me.

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[quote user="Yella Foreva"]Different players, different season, Same Tactics.I wouldnt mind if we had played two and lost two but we had seen Hughton notice that something wasnt right and had tried to change it.I just dont see any ideas from him as to how he is going to go about improving our away form.If our home form isnt as good this year (Im sure it will be) then we could really struggle.Its the start of the season and soooo long to play but to see no change in Hughtons struggling ethos worries me.[/quote]I agree, something has to change.But what?The reality is that we are, at best, a lower half Premiership side. You can go on all you like about how much we have spent, but every team has spent money. I should imagine Hughton sets us out, away from home, pretty much the same way a lot of managers do, ie keep it solid, keep a clean sheet, come away with a point, if you get a bit of luck, maybe a win.People go on and on about Hughtons tactics without actually knowing what they are, no one knows what is said in training and in the dressing room, people are just making their own script up.The simple fact is that we really aren''t as good as some people think we are.

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I agree too that something needs to change, and this doesnt necessarily mean throwing money at the problem or sacking the manager.Here''s just a few suggestions.Some suggestions:1.Pick a team on form - this motivates the whole squad to play better2. If you dont have the players to enact a strategy, base the strategy around the players.3.

Be a bit more unpredictable, swap wingers from time to time or move

players in and out of the hole (both Redmond and Pilks can play in thsi

role from time to time, but not admittedly for the whole match or when

we are hoofing)4. Stop Ruddy from hoofing (dont know if he is told to do this) because everytime the ball just comes back to us with interest.5.

Play someone in central midfield who is comfortable with the ball at

his feet - place less virtue on chasing a ball that has been lost and

more on not losing it in the first place.6. If we are going to

play deep and not allow the full backs to support, this means playing a

very quick counterattacking game and not delaying the release of the

ball.7. One thing that I have noticed is that our players are

being too greedy when shooting - we need to look for the guy in space

and play one-twos.

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