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Oh so wonderful Swansea vs Oh so awful us

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So we got promoted at the same time, both got our managers poached and now Swansea are lauded as one of the best overachievers around. We however have been put as a boring ''whatever'' type team. Laudrup has been linked with the Barcelona and Real Madrid jobs whereas Hughton has been linked with Ireland or the sack!

The difference between us over the three years is 1 point! 1 flipping point! (and a couple of cup wins over Bradford and Villa).

Another thing to note is that we have come further than them at least in the last 4 years in that we had back to back promotions to get here. We have come straight from League 1.

This brings me to the other team to case study, Southampton. We finished above them last year and then are just a point behind them this year after they spent £40m a year, 3 times our outlay the last two years.

They are lauded as this exciting technical team and their manager ''one of the best around.''

In reality, we are level with these two teams and don''t let any media propaganda tell you otherwise. I''d even be tempted to wager a Swansea relegation, as they will face a tough ask to balance the Europa league with the premier league. I bet with everyone boning off them, you''d get amazing odds too.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]So we got promoted at the same time, both got our managers poached and now Swansea are lauded as one of the best overachievers around. We however have been put as a boring ''whatever'' type team. Laudrup has been linked with the Barcelona and Real Madrid jobs whereas Hughton has been linked with Ireland or the sack!

The difference between us over the three years is 1 point! 1 flipping point! (and a couple of cup wins over Bradford and Villa).

Another thing to note is that we have come further than them at least in the last 4 years in that we had back to back promotions to get here. We have come straight from League 1.

This brings me to the other team to case study, Southampton. We finished above them last year and then are just a point behind them this year after they spent £40m a year, 3 times our outlay the last two years.

They are lauded as this exciting technical team and their manager ''one of the best around.''

In reality, we are level with these two teams and don''t let any media propaganda tell you otherwise. I''d even be tempted to wager a Swansea relegation, as they will face a tough ask to balance the Europa league with the premier league. I bet with everyone boning off them, you''d get amazing odds too.[/quote]See?!!!? It''s because we''ve got a rubbish, boring, negative manager.....[:''(][:''(][:''(][:''(]

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Swansea did win the League Cup. Their first ever top trophy. And finished above us during both previous seasons. They also managed this by playing good football.

As far as Southampton go, yes they did spend, we had the choice, but decided to put the money into the stadium. You won''t get many plaudits on the pitch for that, but it worked well for us. The same decision got Wolves relegated.

And yes, we are now a boring ''whatever'' type team, you can lump us in with Sunderland, West Ham and Stoke. Dour defensive football.

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It just amazes me how differently viewed things can be. You could argue that Bassong was as important to us as Michu was for Swansea last season. Other than a cup win in which Swansea capitalised on a favourable draw, what difference can you really pick between us?

If we had actually beaten Villa, I do feel we''d have made a final too, probably against Swansea, we missed a massive opportunity there.

The fine margins of football eh? I bet everyone is boning on about Everton this week, "unbeaten in first 4 etc" but if they had lost vs Chelsea or even just drawn, it''d have been "still looking for that first win, on relegation form etc"

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Well done Swansea. Stunning win last night. Has to be on a par with our victory against Bayern IMO. Very convincing win and good to watch. And before anybody points out that Valencia were down to 10 men - that doesnt always guarantee a victory now does it? Fortune favours the bold

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For god sake we are different clubs, they are worthy of the accolades.

We have got accolades but are under the radar, when we actually perform at a consistent level etc we will have it too.

I am delighted for Swansea or any club that gets good praise when the media is based in London and loves London clubs and the established north west.

We are a good team, but need to go a long way to run on par with Swansea.

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[quote user="smooth"]For god sake we are different clubs, they are worthy of the accolades.

We have got accolades but are under the radar, when we actually perform at a consistent level etc we will have it too.

I am delighted for Swansea or any club that gets good praise when the media is based in London and loves London clubs and the established north west.

We are a good team, but need to go a long way to run on par with Swansea.[/quote]Yet in the last 3 seasons we have finished, 2 points behind, level and 4 in front?Yeah, we really need to go along way to catch them.

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[quote user="CDMullins"][quote user="smooth"]For god sake we are different clubs, they are worthy of the accolades.

We have got accolades but are under the radar, when we actually perform at a consistent level etc we will have it too.

I am delighted for Swansea or any club that gets good praise when the media is based in London and loves London clubs and the established north west.

We are a good team, but need to go a long way to run on par with Swansea.[/quote]Yet in the last 3 seasons we have finished, 2 points behind, level and 4 in front?Yeah, we really need to go along way to catch them.[/quote]

 

Anyone think we would have been capable of doing that to Valencia?

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Sometimes I feel a little resentful about the Swansea love in. Always seems to be a media frenzy whenever they play. Yet whenever we play them we usually school them (which I absolutely love).

I used to think "well I''m just glad the limelight is off us really". All THEIR good players will get sold on and ours will slip under the radar.

Things have changed now. Unfortunately they have moved ahead of us. For some reason they''ve been able to attract the players that we could have done with i.e. Michu, Shelvey, Hernandez, Bony.

We''ve a long way to go still.

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I am talking about their ownership, their development, their style of play.

We are completely different clubs, we came up at the same time but so did qpr who are totally different. We may have been around them in the table but each are very different.

Think we need to stop comparing and worrying what accolades other teams have and working on actually getting some for ourselves.

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The Great Mass Debater wrote the following post at 20/09/2013 8:50 AM:

Well done Swansea. Stunning win last night. Has to be on a par with our victory against Bayern IMO.

Are you really being serious?

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[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The Great Mass Debater wrote the following post at 20/09/2013 8:50 AM:

Well done Swansea. Stunning win last night. Has to be on a par with our victory against Bayern IMO.

Are you really being serious?[/quote]

 

Why wouldnt I be? Debut in Europe, playing League 2 football 10 years ago. Convincingly beat one of Europes biggest clubs on their own ground when noone would have thought it possible. Sounds like our Bayern game to me

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The Great Mass Debater wrote the following post at 20/09/2013 8:50 AM:

Well done Swansea. Stunning win last night. Has to be on a par with our victory against Bayern IMO.

Are you really being serious?[/quote]

 

Why wouldnt I be? Debut in Europe, playing League 2 football 10 years ago. Convincingly beat one of Europes biggest clubs on their own ground when noone would have thought it possible. Sounds like our Bayern game to me

[/quote]Uhm clearly you don''t know much about Valencia''s current state

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So basically you are saying that we have done just as well as Swansea, current holders of the League Cup, playing in the Europa League, who paid £2m for a striker who scored 22 goals last season, with one of footballs greatest ever players as manager and who currently have the same number of points as us this season despite having played Liverpool, Man Utd and Tottenham in their first four games? The same Swansea who have just submitted a planning application to extend their ground to 33000 seats and hope to have it completed within three seasons in three different phrases whilst we insist that we should stick to 27000 for four years because we need to keep on investing in the playing squad.... so that we can achieve something, like Swansea already have in a 20000 seater? 
I will have some of what you are smoking. Swansea are simply ahead of us, I think we are standing still. 

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The Great Mass Debater wrote the following post at 20/09/2013 8:50 AM:

Well done Swansea. Stunning win last night. Has to be on a par with our victory against Bayern IMO.

Are you really being serious?[/quote]

 

Why wouldnt I be? Debut in Europe, playing League 2 football 10 years ago. Convincingly beat one of Europes biggest clubs on their own ground when noone would have thought it possible. Sounds like our Bayern game to me

[/quote]Its hardly the shock of the century,Valencia are not the force they were, massive financial problems, selling their best player, their worst start in 14 years and down to 10 men after 9 minutes.The bookies hardly though it was a shock either, Valencia were 4/5.Cant wait for the Swansea-tug-athon to finish

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We need to get over it - Swansea are better than we are at the moment. They won a trophy, play better football, have better players and a better manager.

Their two seasons in the PL have outperformed ours and they are currently playing and winning in a competition we can only dream of.

Southampton have still got it all to prove though. On paper a good team but their signings are yet to convince and their football is no better than ours. Not sure why we should feel inferior to them.

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[quote user="sgncfc"]

We need to get over it - Swansea are better than we are at the moment. They won a trophy, play better football, have better players and a better manager.

Their two seasons in the PL have outperformed ours and they are currently playing and winning in a competition we can only dream of.

Southampton have still got it all to prove though. On paper a good team but their signings are yet to convince and their football is no better than ours. Not sure why we should feel inferior to them.

[/quote]
Agree about Swansea.
Southampton though have something which we don''t..... which is an academy producing some of the best kids in the country, Ward-Prowse and Shaw included. That''s a good £40m of talent right there if transfer rumours are to be believed.
They may have had to sell Walcott, Bale and Oxlade-Chamberlain to balance the books, but looks like their youth system just keeps on producing.
Perhaps we do have that talent at this club? We won the FA Youth Cup didn''t we? If we do, then why aren''t we taking the next step and turning them into Shaw''s and Ward-Prowse''s?

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They are made out to be streets ahead of us when the difference is in reality marginal. It should inspire us if anything to push that extra bit and maybe we can achieve what they have.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]They are made out to be streets ahead of us when the difference is in reality marginal. It should inspire us if anything to push that extra bit and maybe we can achieve what they have.[/quote]
The proof is in the pudding.
You can''t on one hand suggest that Swansea will struggle this season because of the Europa League, and on the other hand use points in the league in an attempt to illustrate how close we are.
Because you would then be failing to take into consideration the fact that we got knocked out in the League Cup quarter final, and they reached and won the final.
By your logic they should have been seriously impaired by their additional cup games, and should have lost their focus in the league. Just goes to show how the correlation between cup success and league position is a complete fallacy, or it could show just how much better they are than us?
Besides, the five Europa League games that they have played so far don''t appear to have affected their performances against Liverpool and West Brom away. They have 4 points out of 4 against tough opposition, we have 4 points out of 4 and have played a ten man Hull City.
They are better than us and they are better than us until we show otherwise, which we may have the talent to do but probably don''t have the manager to do. I would swap Hughton for Laudrup and if you were being honest with yourself you would too. 

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Swansea have gone from League Two to the Europa League in less than a decade. They are the first Welsh team in the Premier League.
Norwich are in their third spell in the Premier League having been probably the fourth team to achieve two successive promotions from the third to first tier, and are not the biggest club to do it either (Manchester City!). 
It''s bloody obvious why one team gets more attention, they have a more interesting story. Ours is interesting only to us. 

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[quote user="ReadingCanary"][quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

[quote user="Yellow Wall"]The Great Mass Debater wrote the following post at 20/09/2013 8:50 AM:

Well done Swansea. Stunning win last night. Has to be on a par with our victory against Bayern IMO.

Are you really being serious?[/quote]

 

Why wouldnt I be? Debut in Europe, playing League 2 football 10 years ago. Convincingly beat one of Europes biggest clubs on their own ground when noone would have thought it possible. Sounds like our Bayern game to me

[/quote]Uhm clearly you don''t know much about Valencia''s current state

[/quote]

 

Is this not an impressive win then?

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]So we got promoted at the same time, both got our managers poached and now Swansea are lauded as one of the best overachievers around. We however have been put as a boring ''whatever'' type team. Laudrup has been linked with the Barcelona and Real Madrid jobs whereas Hughton has been linked with Ireland or the sack!

The difference between us over the three years is 1 point! 1 flipping point! (and a couple of cup wins over Bradford and Villa).

Another thing to note is that we have come further than them at least in the last 4 years in that we had back to back promotions to get here. We have come straight from League 1.

This brings me to the other team to case study, Southampton. We finished above them last year and then are just a point behind them this year after they spent £40m a year, 3 times our outlay the last two years.

They are lauded as this exciting technical team and their manager ''one of the best around.''

In reality, we are level with these two teams and don''t let any media propaganda tell you otherwise. I''d even be tempted to wager a Swansea relegation, as they will face a tough ask to balance the Europa league with the premier league. I bet with everyone boning off them, you''d get amazing odds too.[/quote]I can''t agree with most of this to be honest sorry. Points wise I''m sure you are correct that its marginal but most other areas they are significantly better. They won a cup, are in Europe and have just outplayed Liverpool and Valencia (granted they aren''t what they were) in the same week. They didn''t defend tightly, circle the wagons and get a goal from a rare corner, they outplayed them for long periods.The focus of a cup final can de-rail league progess too. Effected Birmingham and Wigan so this needs to be considered when talking about points difference too. They are a good footballing side who are exciting to watch while not spending 40 million a season. They have successfully brought through 2/3 players into the team at the same time. They should be lorded.We don''t score many goals, we aren''t great technically and we don''t see that much possession (especially away). We haven''t won a cup or are playing Valencia in Europe that''s why we aren''t talked about very much. I''m not saying we are s$$t and i''m not putting a downer on the team it''s just how it is.

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New Boy, They played the odd cup game more last season, (2 more than us) yes, but in Europe for the first time, they will play at least 10 more games than us. The time they''ll get tired will be just after Christmas. I guess we''ll see if they can stand up to that.

My initial post was before the Europa league last night. The new post doesn''t change my opinion that they will find the league tougher going this time round.

Laudrup is doing slightly better, but not to the levels people are making out. They got the same points last season and so the difference was the quarter final win they got, the semi and the final win ve Bradford, it''s not that much.

My point still stands that despite there being little difference in our progress in the last 5 years, they seem to have massively stolen our thunder and people should not get carried away and think Swansea are some kind of big hitters. They are as fragile as the rest of us bar the top 7 (Everton included in them).

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]New Boy, They played the odd cup game more last season, (2 more than us) yes, but in Europe for the first time, they will play at least 10 more games than us. The time they''ll get tired will be just after Christmas. I guess we''ll see if they can stand up to that.

My initial post was before the Europa league last night. The new post doesn''t change my opinion that they will find the league tougher going this time round.

Laudrup is doing slightly better, but not to the levels people are making out. They got the same points last season and so the difference was the quarter final win they got, the semi and the final win ve Bradford, it''s not that much.

My point still stands that despite there being little difference in our progress in the last 5 years, they seem to have massively stolen our thunder and people should not get carried away and think Swansea are some kind of big hitters. They are as fragile as the rest of us bar the top 7 (Everton included in them).[/quote]
Being entirely hypothetical here, but I would sacrifice a 10th place finish for a 16th place finish for one season if it meant reaching and winning an FA Cup final and having a run in Europe. 
I''m sure most Swansea fans would too, and I''m sure most Norwich fans would, and if you ask Newcastle fans they may have been worried at one stage but probably enjoyed their run in Europe last season too.
Besides, is there actually any precedent for a team getting relegated from the Premier League in the same season as they were playing in Europe? There have been a couple of relegated FA Cup winners, but think the only Europa League/UEFA Cup team getting relegated in the same season as playing in that competition that I can think of is....... that team down the road after their 5th place finish? 
Swansea played 3 more cup games than us by the way, not 2. We played 2 FA Cup games, as did they. We played 4 league cup games, they played 7 (the semi final is two legs). Another way to look at it is that we played 2 cup games in 2013 and they played 5 cup games in 2013, as we were knocked out of the League cup in December. 

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]My point still stands that despite there being little difference in our progress in the last 5 years, they seem to have massively stolen our thunder and people should not get carried away and think Swansea are some kind of big hitters. They are as fragile as the rest of us bar the top 7 (Everton included in them).[/quote]They haven''t stolen our thunder at all, if we played football like they do, won a cup, finished top half and got into europe, then everyone would be raving about us. We don''t, we play dire football and are forgettable midtable makeweights like Stoke, Sunderland, West Ham etc.

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[quote user="Jimmy Smith"] They are as fragile as the rest of us bar the top 7 (Everton included in them).[/quote]
Well when you put it like that, then yes, would only take a few injuries or Laudrup walking mid-season, or a confidence crisis, or a dressing room split. But that wasn''t really the point you were making - which was that Swansea get more acclaim than us. Which they should do, because 9 years ago they were in League Two, and now they have a top half Premier League finish, a league cup win, and a run in Europe. 
We don''t have any of those three things, and until we do we shouldn''t be seeking acclaim. We still have it all to achieve. Are we capable? Yes. But we don''t deserve plaudits until/unless we get there. 
If we swap places and we can achieve something like that, and Swansea achieve nothing much else, then we would have a case. At the moment we are just another run of the mill mid-table team achieving nothing spectacular. Win a cup and we can bask in glory, that''s the point in winning a cup.... the winner is a winner, everybody else is a loser. 

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]Well done Swansea. Stunning win last night. Has to be on a par with our victory against Bayern IMO. Very convincing win and good to watch. And before anybody points out that Valencia were down to 10 men - that doesnt always guarantee a victory now does it? Fortune favours the bold[/quote]

 

As a Norwich supporter I have continual difficulties identifying with anything you post. But before anyone jumps on me for saying so, I certainly wouldn''t want to take away your right to post nonsense on this board. It certainly stimulates debate. However to suggest, no state, that this victory was on a par with ours in Munich seems to have been done without any thought whatsoever: -

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/european/europa-league-struggling-spanish-giants-valencia-ripe-for-swansea-and-their-style-8825285.html

 

When these facts are considered alongside the bookies price of 4/5 for the home win nothing suggests Swansea''s achievement was on a par with ours in Munich. Probably the only person who thinks that is you. And I have trouble understanding the reasoning behind those thoughts.

 

 

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