Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Bill

where's the missin' eight farzin gorn, guv ?

Recommended Posts

Failing to plan for the future there were telling usWe need to bring in the next generation they told usBut where are they ?What has happened to those poor little mites and ''horphans'' so desperate to visit Carrow Road ? Where are the 8000 or so that would fill the ground if only the club would stop denying them there rightful place ............................. a seat at Carrow Road.There are still empty seats - about a couple of hundred.''But it is not a 3pm kickoff, it is lunchtime''. So is the Chelsea game''But it is on the telly ............... err'', so is the Chelsea game£1.5m* to subsidise a bunch of fairweather happy clappies who have interest in turning when it is not one of the top teams.Suggests the club does know what it is doing.

*   that presumes every game is sold out and all the ticket prices are as high as they are now - can''t see that happening

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am new so will be rather carefull here, but really, do you lack an ability to properly use the English language in the same way as you lack common sense?

Forgive me for responding to a Troll but really come on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So in conclusion the game which kicks off in 21 hours time will almost certainly be a sell out, as there are only a couple of hundred restricted view tickets left and the club only needs to sell 10 tickets per hour between now and then to reach full capacity. 
Yet City1st thinks that the unwillingness of people to pay £45 for a seat behind a post, not being able to get a seat next to their kid or partner or mate, is the greatest evidence yet that people wouldn''t pay £35 for two or three seats together in a new improved City stand which will offer the best view of the game in the ground.
He presumes that ticket prices would remain as high as they are now, despite knowing full well that McNally has stated quite clearly on several occasions that an increase in capacity would likely result in a reduction in ticket prices, something which most fans would welcome because we currently have the 4th most expensive casual tickets in the league when measured by the cheapest available seats. About £15 more expensive than the most affordable casual seats at Old Trafford.
Glad that''s settled then. A ground extension would be a stupid idea because every casual should want to pay £45 to see half the pitch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Although I''m glad you started this thread, because I had no idea it was an early kick-off and would have missed the game.
Still, bet the club is going to have a lot of difficulty flogging 12 tickets an hour. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As I have said before, a 35k stadium can''t be filled on any regular basis that is financially viable therefore it''s not going to happen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Doctorsleep"]I am new so will be rather carefull here, but really, do you lack an ability to properly use the English language in the same way as you lack common sense?

Forgive me for responding to a Troll but really come on.[/quote]

As you are new please let me give you some advice-when criticising people for their misuse of the English language, be CAREFUL not to misspell any words!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would have thought it depends on whether we are successful surely, there are seats apparently available tomorrow but it is a lunch time TV kick off after a very poor performance last time out. Swansea are extending their ground and if they carry on playing good football they will fill it. So would we if we play well because people will want to come and watch. If we play poorly they will not. It''s straight forward with all due respect!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Mr Angry"][quote user="Doctorsleep"]I am new so will be rather carefull here, but really, do you lack an ability to properly use the English language in the same way as you lack common sense?

Forgive me for responding to a Troll but really come on.[/quote]

As you are new please let me give you some advice-when criticising people for their misuse of the English language, be CAREFUL not to misspell any words![/quote]

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]So in conclusion the game which kicks off in 21 hours time will almost certainly be a sell out, as there are only a couple of hundred restricted view tickets left and the club only needs to sell 10 tickets per hour between now and then to reach full capacity. 
Yet City1st thinks that the unwillingness of people to pay £45 for a seat behind a post, not being able to get a seat next to their kid or partner or mate, is the greatest evidence yet that people wouldn''t pay £35 for two or three seats together in a new improved City stand which will offer the best view of the game in the ground.
He presumes that ticket prices would remain as high as they are now, despite knowing full well that McNally has stated quite clearly on several occasions that an increase in capacity would likely result in a reduction in ticket prices, something which most fans would welcome because we currently have the 4th most expensive casual tickets in the league when measured by the cheapest available seats. About £15 more expensive than the most affordable casual seats at Old Trafford.
Glad that''s settled then. A ground extension would be a stupid idea because every casual should want to pay £45 to see half the pitch. 
[/quote]Why would you spend £30 million in order to get lower ticket prices?Rather a waiting list than empty seats and a £30 million debt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="ricardo"]As I have said before, a 35k stadium can''t be filled on any regular basis that is financially viable therefore it''s not going to happen.[/quote]
I don''t know where people get the figure of 35k from anyway, I thought a new city stand would hold 8,000 people. 
Surely I don''t need to point out that this would increase the capacity to 31k and not 35k? 
There are additional benefits to a new stand than just an increase home capacity. I''d would go into them, only if people on the Pink''un can''t do simple maths then I''m not convinced that it is worth my time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]So in conclusion the game which kicks off in 21 hours time will almost certainly be a sell out, as there are only a couple of hundred restricted view tickets left and the club only needs to sell 10 tickets per hour between now and then to reach full capacity. 
Yet City1st thinks that the unwillingness of people to pay £45 for a seat behind a post, not being able to get a seat next to their kid or partner or mate, is the greatest evidence yet that people wouldn''t pay £35 for two or three seats together in a new improved City stand which will offer the best view of the game in the ground.
He presumes that ticket prices would remain as high as they are now, despite knowing full well that McNally has stated quite clearly on several occasions that an increase in capacity would likely result in a reduction in ticket prices, something which most fans would welcome because we currently have the 4th most expensive casual tickets in the league when measured by the cheapest available seats. About £15 more expensive than the most affordable casual seats at Old Trafford.
Glad that''s settled then. A ground extension would be a stupid idea because every casual should want to pay £45 to see half the pitch. 
[/quote]Why would you spend £30 million in order to get lower ticket prices?Rather a waiting list than empty seats and a £30 million debt.[/quote]
I never said that I would, I''m telling you what McNally said would happen.
Although there are benefits to decreased ticket prices, and decreasing prices is the key to at some stage in the future being capable of filling a larger stadium.
There is a man who works for MK Dons who would probably tell you all about that, I can''t be bothered. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]So in conclusion the game which kicks off in 21 hours time will almost certainly be a sell out, as there are only a couple of hundred restricted view tickets left and the club only needs to sell 10 tickets per hour between now and then to reach full capacity. 
Yet City1st thinks that the unwillingness of people to pay £45 for a seat behind a post, not being able to get a seat next to their kid or partner or mate, is the greatest evidence yet that people wouldn''t pay £35 for two or three seats together in a new improved City stand which will offer the best view of the game in the ground.
He presumes that ticket prices would remain as high as they are now, despite knowing full well that McNally has stated quite clearly on several occasions that an increase in capacity would likely result in a reduction in ticket prices, something which most fans would welcome because we currently have the 4th most expensive casual tickets in the league when measured by the cheapest available seats. About £15 more expensive than the most affordable casual seats at Old Trafford.
Glad that''s settled then. A ground extension would be a stupid idea because every casual should want to pay £45 to see half the pitch. 
[/quote]

Why would you spend £30 million in order to get lower ticket prices?Rather a waiting list than empty seats and a £30 million debt.[/quote]
I never said that I would, I''m telling you what McNally said would happen.
Although there are benefits to decreased ticket prices, and decreasing prices is the key to at some stage in the future being capable of filling a larger stadium.
There is a man who works for MK Dons who would probably tell you all about that, I can''t be bothered. 
[/quote]You don''t need to, I was at the AGM when McNally said it and he said it

to demonstrate that the proposal to increase capacity while decreasing

prices was one that had no basis in logic.We would need to borrow the money and and when he and Bowkett trailed the idea in front of various lenders they were given short shrift.It''s not going to happen in any any foreseeable time frame. You are welcome to ask the question at the Supporters Forum but this is the answer you will get because nothing has changed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]So in conclusion the game which kicks off in 21 hours time will almost certainly be a sell out, as there are only a couple of hundred restricted view tickets left and the club only needs to sell 10 tickets per hour between now and then to reach full capacity. 
Yet City1st thinks that the unwillingness of people to pay £45 for a seat behind a post, not being able to get a seat next to their kid or partner or mate, is the greatest evidence yet that people wouldn''t pay £35 for two or three seats together in a new improved City stand which will offer the best view of the game in the ground.
He presumes that ticket prices would remain as high as they are now, despite knowing full well that McNally has stated quite clearly on several occasions that an increase in capacity would likely result in a reduction in ticket prices, something which most fans would welcome because we currently have the 4th most expensive casual tickets in the league when measured by the cheapest available seats. About £15 more expensive than the most affordable casual seats at Old Trafford.
Glad that''s settled then. A ground extension would be a stupid idea because every casual should want to pay £45 to see half the pitch. 
[/quote]

Why would you spend £30 million in order to get lower ticket prices?Rather a waiting list than empty seats and a £30 million debt.[/quote]
I never said that I would, I''m telling you what McNally said would happen.
Although there are benefits to decreased ticket prices, and decreasing prices is the key to at some stage in the future being capable of filling a larger stadium.
There is a man who works for MK Dons who would probably tell you all about that, I can''t be bothered. 
[/quote]You don''t need to, I was at the AGM when McNally said it and he said it

to demonstrate that the proposal to increase capacity while decreasing

prices was one that had no basis in logic.We would need to borrow the money and and when he and Bowkett trailed the idea in front of various lenders they were given short shrift.It''s not going to happen in any any foreseeable time frame. You are welcome to ask the question at the Supporters Forum but this is the answer you will get because nothing has changed.[/quote]
I don''t need to ask that question because a little over a week ago he got in front of a camera and answered it already. He quite clearly stated that the club would "love to do it" and only ruled it out in the short term but said quite clearly that there is a "need" to expand the stadium, and only ruled it out for the next "two or three years".
The UEA study concluded that we could expand the stadium by "up to 7000" seats, and that the cost would be "up to £30 million". People like you and City 1st then constantly use these two numbers: "35000" and "£30 million".
Well I''d put it to you that with a current capacity of 27250 this would suggest a total possible capacity of somewhere around 34250. You appear to be rounding up, rather than down - defying the laws of basic mathematics.
What you also fail to acknowledge is that it is likely that an increase of the full 7000 would likely be a two or three phase development, the first phase would/could be the demolition and rebuilding of the City Stand. The new stand would likely have a capacity of around 8000 seats. The current one has a capacity of around 4000 seats. 
That would give us a capacity of 31250 seats, and whilst I have no idea how much that particularly redevelopment would cost, it would be fair to say that it wouldn''t cost £30m as the other 3000 possible seats wouldn''t cost £0.
What you anti-expansion folk also fail to consider is the increased number of away tickets that we could allocate to visiting teams, many of whom could sell twice as many as they currently do. Some of whom can''t even sell their current allocation of course, but for some games this could easily add 1500 to 2000 to the gate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="ricardo"]As I have said before, a 35k stadium can''t be filled on any regular basis that is financially viable therefore it''s not going to happen.
[/quote]

 

Funny thing is Ricrdo, early 90''s through to 2005 you could say the same about wanting a 27K statium as we could only attract about 16-18K average, so why was there a need to increase the ground?

 

So would the same aply by increasing the ground to 32K? Surely we would fill 32K?

 

I''m not for increasing the ground by the way, I just think it''s a short sighted arguement to say no just because some people think we won''t fill it.

 

I think after we build a good 25 man squad and established for at least 5 yeare then a budget should be set aside and most of the money saved prior to build the ground extensions. But I''m for increasing the ground long term but not at any additional risk to finances or relegation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course we could fill 31250 seats, pretty regularly. Circa 1500 people waiting for a season ticket. 
We already get circa 26500 people. That''s 28000 already.
Half the teams in this league would be capable of bringing 1500 additional away fans, that''s 29500 when playing a big club or a London team. 
That''s 1750 casual tickets which would fly if they weren''t stuck behind a post and priced at £35 or £40 + cheap kids tickets. 
Can''t see what any Norwich fan would have against flogging kids tickets for a fiver when the away team can''t take a 3000 seat allocation - those £5 tickets would create a new generation of season ticket holders, and that''s precisely why we fill Carrow Road now after filling it with kids a decade ago.
Those kids are now adults. 
Most of the people who moan about expansion sit in the City Stand. They don''t want the capacity increased because:
1). They can''t see how pathetic the City Stand looks, the rest of the ground can.
2). They don''t want to lose their seats and couldn''t care less about getting more kids in the ground because they probably won''t be alive / physically capable of attending games by the time those kids turn into season ticket holders in 15 years. 
Sorry but it''s true.... the majority of those against expansion just don''t want the upheaval - they are against it for selfish reasons. Look at the fuss that most of them made when asked to move a couple of rows to accommodate some nice shiny dugouts when we got promoted. Imagine what they would be like if asked to move to another stand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]So in conclusion the game which kicks off in 21 hours time will almost certainly be a sell out, as there are only a couple of hundred restricted view tickets left and the club only needs to sell 10 tickets per hour between now and then to reach full capacity. 
Yet City1st thinks that the unwillingness of people to pay £45 for a seat behind a post, not being able to get a seat next to their kid or partner or mate, is the greatest evidence yet that people wouldn''t pay £35 for two or three seats together in a new improved City stand which will offer the best view of the game in the ground.
He presumes that ticket prices would remain as high as they are now, despite knowing full well that McNally has stated quite clearly on several occasions that an increase in capacity would likely result in a reduction in ticket prices, something which most fans would welcome because we currently have the 4th most expensive casual tickets in the league when measured by the cheapest available seats. About £15 more expensive than the most affordable casual seats at Old Trafford.
Glad that''s settled then. A ground extension would be a stupid idea because every casual should want to pay £45 to see half the pitch. 
[/quote]

Why would you spend £30 million in order to get lower ticket prices?Rather a waiting list than empty seats and a £30 million debt.[/quote]
I never said that I would, I''m telling you what McNally said would happen.
Although there are benefits to decreased ticket prices, and decreasing prices is the key to at some stage in the future being capable of filling a larger stadium.
There is a man who works for MK Dons who would probably tell you all about that, I can''t be bothered. 
[/quote]You don''t need to, I was at the AGM when McNally said it and he said it

to demonstrate that the proposal to increase capacity while decreasing

prices was one that had no basis in logic.We would need to borrow the money and and when he and Bowkett trailed the idea in front of various lenders they were given short shrift.It''s not going to happen in any any foreseeable time frame. You are welcome to ask the question at the Supporters Forum but this is the answer you will get because nothing has changed.[/quote]
I don''t need to ask that question because a little over a week ago he got in front of a camera and answered it already. He quite clearly stated that the club would "love to do it" and only ruled it out in the short term but said quite clearly that there is a "need" to expand the stadium, and only ruled it out for the next "two or three years".
The UEA study concluded that we could expand the stadium by "up to 7000" seats, and that the cost would be "up to £30 million". People like you and City 1st then constantly use these two numbers: "35000" and "£30 million".
Well I''d put it to you that with a current capacity of 27250 this would suggest a total possible capacity of somewhere around 34250. You appear to be rounding up, rather than down - defying the laws of basic mathematics.
What you also fail to acknowledge is that it is likely that an increase of the full 7000 would likely be a two or three phase development, the first phase would/could be the demolition and rebuilding of the City Stand. The new stand would likely have a capacity of around 8000 seats. The current one has a capacity of around 4000 seats. 
That would give us a capacity of 31250 seats, and whilst I have no idea how much that particularly redevelopment would cost, it would be fair to say that it wouldn''t cost £30m as the other 3000 possible seats wouldn''t cost £0.
What you anti-expansion folk also fail to consider is the increased number of away tickets that we could allocate to visiting teams, many of whom could sell twice as many as they currently do. Some of whom can''t even sell their current allocation of course, but for some games this could easily add 1500 to 2000 to the gate.
[/quote]You obviously assume continued Premier status is a given. I use 35k as a round number for the sake of argument but in any event 750/1000 either way is neither here nor there. Any sort of redevelopment that would require the replacement of the City Stand is going to require a large amount of cash that can only come from our Sky TV payment or from a loan. Logically it''s going to be a loan because anything else would jeopardize team strengthening.Yes, we would all like to see a bigger stadium but it looks unlikely that anything that is remotely financially viable is not logistically possible. Apart from perhaps something small in front of the hotel. I think putting in extra seats and extra rows have gone about as far as is possible to go.We could argue all day about how many extra seats are required but my position remains that we would not be able to fill a 35k stadium on a regular basis. If you want to believe that there will be a major stadium expansion in the next 2-3 years then I''m not going to stop you. What McNally said was no different to what he said 3 years ago. I didn''t believe it would happen then and I don''t believe it will happen now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"The New Boy (Le Juge)  -    So in conclusion the game which kicks off in 21 hours time will almost certainly be a sell out, as there are only a couple of hundred restricted view tickets left and the club only needs to sell 10 tickets per hour between now and then to reach full capacity. 
Yet City1st thinks that the unwillingness of people to pay £45 for a seat behind a post, not being able to get a seat next to their kid or partner or mate, is the greatest evidence yet that people wouldn''t pay £35 for two or three seats together in a new improved City stand which will offer the best view of the game in the ground.
He presumeshig that ticket prices would remain as h as they are now, despite knowing full well that McNally has stated quite clearly on several occasions that an increase in capacity would likely result in a reduction in ticket prices, something which most fans would welcome because we currently have the 4th most expensive casual tickets in the league when measured by the cheapest available seats. About £15 more expensive than the most affordable casual seats at Old Trafford.
Glad that''s settled then. A ground extension would be a stupid idea because every casual should want to pay £45 to see half the pitch. 
Are you from suffolk by any chance as you don''t sound too brightYou squeak about paying £45 for a reduced view ticket, conveniently ignoring that the Chelsea game (a whole fortnight ahead) is already sold out. Where the problem with the view there ?You then compound your stupidity (if that is possible() by claiming that I presume that "that ticket prices would remain as high". I do not. The point I made was about the cost of the subsidy ie it would only be if £1.5m on the presumption that ticket prices remain as they are and ALL seats are sold. Try reading the post.Of course the ticket prices would have to drop to stimulate demand.THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT !Something that Indy heroically fails to grasp. We could probably sellout a £40,000 capacity ground if the tickets were low enough. But it would mean quite a few more million from the playing budget to subsidise the cost. So there would be no seats at £35 in the new City stand, as that would mean all casual tickets elsewhere having to drop BELOW that price which would simply mean a far far lower over all ticket income ie the cost of this would be even more. Way beyond the hoped for £1.5m loss.The previous squeaks about extending the capacity have been from the happy clappy/fairweather/johhny come latelies who have claimed that we would easily sellout another 4000 seats if not 8000 more. Despite all evidence to the contrary their squeaks continued. Maybe just maybe the reality of the situation might now finally sink in. And a few of the dimwits might just grasp that maybe, just maybe, the club who are number crunching the figures on a daily hourly or whatever basis came to that conclusion years back. Shame a few of the not too bright are unable to understand that fact - despite Ricardo politely pointing it out as patiently and simply as possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]Of course we could fill 31250 seats, pretty regularly. Circa 1500 people waiting for a season ticket. 
We already get circa 26500 people. That''s 28000 already.
Half the teams in this league would be capable of bringing 1500 additional away fans, that''s 29500 when playing a big club or a London team. 
That''s 1750 casual tickets which would fly if they weren''t stuck behind a post and priced at £35 or £40 + cheap kids tickets. 
Can''t see what any Norwich fan would have against flogging kids tickets for a fiver when the away team can''t take a 3000 seat allocation - those £5 tickets would create a new generation of season ticket holders, and that''s precisely why we fill Carrow Road now after filling it with kids a decade ago.
Those kids are now adults. 
Most of the people who moan about expansion sit in the City Stand. They don''t want the capacity increased because:
1). They can''t see how pathetic the City Stand looks, the rest of the ground can.
2). They don''t want to lose their seats and couldn''t care less about getting more kids in the ground because they probably won''t be alive / physically capable of attending games by the time those kids turn into season ticket holders in 15 years. 
Sorry but it''s true.... the majority of those against expansion just don''t want the upheaval - they are against it for selfish reasons. Look at the fuss that most of them made when asked to move a couple of rows to accommodate some nice shiny dugouts when we got promoted. Imagine what they would be like if asked to move to another stand. 
[/quote]I won''t argue with your figures which a largely based on continued Premiership status and a remarkable surge in interest over the last 6-7 years that can just as easily evaporate when things go tits up. You only need to look at the history to see this has happened several times before.Regarding people who are against expansion. I am sorry but I don''t know any of these people. Everyone would like to see it but some are more realistic about how and when it can happen than others.As for anti expansion people in the City Stand, I couldn''t comment, I''m in The Norwich and Peterboro. In any event those who won''t be alive in ten to fifteen years time will not be wanting a seat will they so that''s free''d up quite a few. Mine will in all likelihood be one of them[:''(]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Please explain Ricardo why we will not fill a 35000 stadium if we are playing good football and are a successful Prem team. Sorry but I can not understand that, we are ambitious and want to improve, result is more people will want to come and watch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Agreed that if, and therin lies the problem, but if we play good footy at the top level we will fill a 35k stadium. Its a no brainer isnt it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Of course we could fill 31250 seats, pretty regularly."

oh dear, you really are an idiot aren''t you ?The whole point of the expansion is that we would sellout EVERY"That''s 1750 casual tickets which would fly if they weren''t stuck behind a post and priced at £35 or £40 + cheap kids tickets. "

you get dimmer by the minutehas it not occured to you that any reduction in casual seat prices in one stand ( a new one at that)would mean that ALL casual seat prices would have to be reduced - more lossesor that many on the season ticket waiting list are those currently buying casual tickets now - the club might just have both details and do match them upCan''t see what any Norwich fan would have against flogging kids tickets for a fiver which would mean that they haven''t sold for the price needed and so more losses"Most of the people who moan about expansion sit in the City Stand" a lie in may waysfirst you do not know where anybody on here sites - I have heard no one moan about any expansion, what i do read is replies to halfwitted nonsense like that you have posted upas to the next generation please tell me where this extra 10,000 have recently come from as they weren''t buying tickets when we had around 16,000 turning upand who gives a flying fu ck about what the present Main Stand looks like. It has never bothered me, I have never sat in it baring recent pre season friendlies.

The simple truth of the matter is no genuine fan is against the club having more seats in the ground ie a new stand.What supporters are against is stupid and cretinous bleats that make ill founded claims based on knowing far call about the costs, the sales of tickets or in fact jack sh it about how anything that relates to redevelopment of the ground. Now why not accept that you have lost the argument, that the club will continue to focus on maintaining it''s PL status and be grateful that when you watch the game via the screen the club is in the PL because of taking sound financial decisions ........... and will continue to do so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote] You obviously assume continued Premier status is a given. [/quote]
Nope, I don''t, although I do believe that the new parachute payment deal is much more attractive than the one that we benefited from upon our last relegation to the Championship and that''s why Wigan haven''t had to decimate their squad. The risk of administration upon relegation is lower now for relatively well managed clubs than it was even a few years ago. 
[quote]  Any sort of redevelopment that would require the replacement of the City Stand is going to require a large amount of cash that can only come from our Sky TV payment or from a loan. Logically it''s going to be a loan because anything else would jeopardize team strengthening.[/quote]
One would assume that a figure of "up to £30m" is one derived from financial projections which include interest repayments over fixed period of time, which would hypothetically give us a true cost of £3m per year for ten years and even less over twenty years. A relatively small amount of money. 
[quote] Yes, we would all like to see a bigger stadium but it looks unlikely that anything that is remotely financially viable is not logistically possible. [/quote]
Even in the case of a full 7000 seat expansion, at the worst case cost of £30m, we would only need to fill 3000 of those seats with adult season ticket holders or 2000 adult casual ticket per game to achieve an annual ROI of over 5% before taking into consideration other revenue such as catering/beer, club shop expenditure, income from the inevitable new corporate hospitality (the City stand doesn''t have boxes, a new one would), additional sponsorship boards (double tier, a row in the middle to be exploited, right in front of the TV cameras), and the potential commercial areas which could be incorporated into the design (a new Norwich City megastore perhaps? A large bar for pre and post match beverages?). 
Sometimes a much increased away allocation would fill 1000+ more seats alone. I can''t see why an annual yield of 8% is unachievable even with lots of empty seats and that''s a very conservative estimate. That is a strong yield, how much more should one expect from a property investment? That''s more than you can expect from buying a terrace house in Norwich and renting it out. Same principle applies. Can''t see why the development couldn''t pay for itself over a ten year period, possibly even less. Then there is price inflation. The interest rate on the debt might fluctuate a little, but the cost of the football experience will no doubt continue to increase substantially above any increase in the rate of inflation. So will the cost of building though, the sooner we do it the cheaper it would be. 
[quote]  Apart from perhaps something small in front of the hotel. I think putting in extra seats and extra rows have gone about as far as is possible to go.[/quote]
But you appear to have reached this conclusion based on nothing other than a figure of £30m and a rough estimate of how many additional people you believe would attend games. I find it amazing that you can claim ''non-financial viability'' with nothing other than a few figures plucked from the air. We don''t even know if the cost of £30m is the fully-financed cost including interest or the amount to be borrowed pre-interest. If it were a fixed rate cost of £30m over ten years then that is cheap and we could easily achieve a yield which would justify that investment. 
[quote] We could argue all day about how many extra seats are required but my position remains that we would not be able to fill a 35k stadium on a regular basis. [/quote]
Well I agree (in the short term) but at no stage has anybody said that extending by 7000 is our only option, could we extend by just 4000? If so at what cost? And how can you so confidently state that expansion is not financially viable until you know how much this would cost? You can''t, so stop pretending that you can. 
[quote]  If you want to believe that there will be a major stadium expansion in the next 2-3 years then I''m not going to stop you. [/quote]
I think you may have misunderstood. I said that McNally has ruled out expansion within the next 2-3 years, at no point did I state that I believe there would be expansion in the next 2-3 years. 
[quote]  What McNally said was no different to what he said 3 years ago. I didn''t believe it would happen then and I don''t believe it will happen now. [/quote]
Well we will see. There are always stadium naming rights to be sold..... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Doctorsleep"]Please explain Ricardo why we will not fill a 35000 stadium if we are playing good football and are a successful Prem team. Sorry but I can not understand that, we are ambitious and want to improve, result is more people will want to come and watch![/quote]I''ve been through this many times before. In short how many league gates of over 35k have there been in NCFC''s entire 100+ year history. I will tell you, there have been nine and five of those were in the old Div 3 South.Attendances go up and down over time and there is no reason to think full houses will last forever. Back in 1991 our average Div 1 (top tier) gate was under 14kEven back in the standing days we did not average anywhere near 30k which I would suggest is probably the top end of what could be achieved now while in the Premiership

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[quote user="Doctorsleep"]Please explain Ricardo why we will not fill a 35000 stadium if we are playing good football and are a successful Prem team. Sorry but I can not understand that, we are ambitious and want to improve, result is more people will want to come and watch![/quote]

err, check the seats still availablecheck how many games last season did not selloutor tell us how much more would be the subsidy if we were not a successful Premier team - the loan would be over 20 years so a lot can happen thenoe tell us how we would meet the £3m plus costs in the Championship

or maybe tell us where would these fans would come from given that we constantly get told by the glory hunters on here that because kids can''t attend now, they will not attend in the future - surely you are not suggesting that it is being a successful PL team that is bringing them in(rather blows a hole in the remaining bleat you lot have it that is the case)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Canarygirl"]Agreed that if, and therin lies the problem, but if we play good footy at the top level we will fill a 35k stadium. Its a no brainer isnt it?[/quote]History says no.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote] You obviously assume continued Premier status is a given. [/quote]
Nope, I don''t, although I do believe that the new parachute payment deal is much more attractive than the one that we benefited from upon our last relegation to the Championship and that''s why Wigan haven''t had to decimate their squad. The risk of administration upon relegation is lower now for relatively well managed clubs than it was even a few years ago. 
[quote]  Any sort of redevelopment that would require the replacement of the City Stand is going to require a large amount of cash that can only come from our Sky TV payment or from a loan. Logically it''s going to be a loan because anything else would jeopardize team strengthening.[/quote]
One would assume that a figure of "up to £30m" is one derived from financial projections which include interest repayments over fixed period of time, which would hypothetically give us a true cost of £3m per year for ten years and even less over twenty years. A relatively small amount of money. 
[quote] Yes, we would all like to see a bigger stadium but it looks unlikely that anything that is remotely financially viable is not logistically possible. [/quote]
Even in the case of a full 7000 seat expansion, at the worst case cost of £30m, we would only need to fill 3000 of those seats with adult season ticket holders or 2000 adult casual ticket per game to achieve an annual ROI of over 5% before taking into consideration other revenue such as catering/beer, club shop expenditure, income from the inevitable new corporate hospitality (the City stand doesn''t have boxes, a new one would), additional sponsorship boards (double tier, a row in the middle to be exploited, right in front of the TV cameras), and the potential commercial areas which could be incorporated into the design (a new Norwich City megastore perhaps? A large bar for pre and post match beverages?). 
Sometimes a much increased away allocation would fill 1000+ more seats alone. I can''t see why an annual yield of 8% is unachievable even with lots of empty seats and that''s a very conservative estimate. That is a strong yield, how much more should one expect from a property investment? That''s more than you can expect from buying a terrace house in Norwich and renting it out. Same principle applies. Can''t see why the development couldn''t pay for itself over a ten year period, possibly even less. Then there is price inflation. The interest rate on the debt might fluctuate a little, but the cost of the football experience will no doubt continue to increase substantially above any increase in the rate of inflation. So will the cost of building though, the sooner we do it the cheaper it would be. 
[quote]  Apart from perhaps something small in front of the hotel. I think putting in extra seats and extra rows have gone about as far as is possible to go.[/quote]
But you appear to have reached this conclusion based on nothing other than a figure of £30m and a rough estimate of how many additional people you believe would attend games. I find it amazing that you can claim ''non-financial viability'' with nothing other than a few figures plucked from the air. We don''t even know if the cost of £30m is the fully-financed cost including interest or the amount to be borrowed pre-interest. If it were a fixed rate cost of £30m over ten years then that is cheap and we could easily achieve a yield which would justify that investment. 
[quote] We could argue all day about how many extra seats are required but my position remains that we would not be able to fill a 35k stadium on a regular basis. [/quote]
Well I agree (in the short term) but at no stage has anybody said that extending by 7000 is our only option, could we extend by just 4000? If so at what cost? And how can you so confidently state that expansion is not financially viable until you know how much this would cost? You can''t, so stop pretending that you can. 
[quote]  If you want to believe that there will be a major stadium expansion in the next 2-3 years then I''m not going to stop you. [/quote]
I think you may have misunderstood. I said that McNally has ruled out expansion within the next 2-3 years, at no point did I state that I believe there would be expansion in the next 2-3 years. 
[quote]  What McNally said was no different to what he said 3 years ago. I didn''t believe it would happen then and I don''t believe it will happen now. [/quote]
Well we will see. There are always stadium naming rights to be sold..... 
[/quote]I''m not trying to crush your dream but you need to ask yourself why if it''s such a no brainer, are the club not getting straight on with the job.I simply ask you to look at the history of the gates over time and honestly tell me that a 35k stadium can be filled on a regular basis. Even allowing for an increased population I contend that the figures say that it can''t and without Premiership status assured long term it is nothing more than a vanity project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="City1st"]oh dear, you really are an idiot aren''t you ? The whole point of the expansion is that we would sellout EVERY [/quote]
Come back when you understand the principle of ROI / annual yield, and the principle of void periods in commercial property ownership, and then explain to yourself how a feasibility / viability report can be undertaken to consider best and worst case scenarios to calculate whether an investment  is worthwhile or not. Then familiarise yourself with the concept of scalable costs and attempt to understand how an expansion of 6000 need not necessarily cost twice as much as an expansion of 3000, and how selling 4000 out of 6000 seats could generate a greater return on investment than selling 3000 out of 3000 seats. Then reread your comment and tell me who the idiot is. I''d say the person who has reached the latter stages of their life and is still incapable of using basic punctuation like capital letters and full stops. 
[quote] you get dimmer by the minute [/quote]
Look out it''s the illiterati. 
[quote]  has it not occured to you that any reduction in casual seat prices in one stand ( a new one at that)would mean that ALL casual seat prices would have to be reduced - more losses [/quote]
Has it not occurred to you that what you have just said is bollocks? Has it also occurred to you that the price reductions wouldn''t necessarily need to take place in the new stand? 
[quote] which would mean that they haven''t sold for the price needed and so more losses [/quote]
Did you know that it was possible to buy an Under 12 season ticket this season for £69.75? Equivalent of £3.85 per game? 
[quote] first you do not know where anybody on here sites [/quote]
Assuming that you mean "sits", then well... yes I do. I can name at least six posters who sit in the City Stand.
[quote] as to the next generation please tell me where this extra 10,000 have recently come from as they weren''t buying tickets when we had around 16,000 turning up [/quote]
Yes they came as a result of some excellent initiatives to get families and kids into football, including selling cheap tickets to kids, those kids are now adults. Something which you appear incapable of understanding. 
[quote] What supporters are against is stupid and cretinous bleats that make ill founded claims based on knowing far call about the costs, the sales of tickets or in fact jack sh it about how anything that relates to redevelopment of the ground. [/quote]
And the others are against those who make ill founded claims despite knowing jack sh it to further an argument against expansion. Because the people on both sides are being nothing but fag packet accountants, including you, and including Ricardo.  [quote]  Now why not accept that you have lost the argument [/quote]
Yeah because you presented an excellent counter argument which pretty much consisted of lots of insults and swear words, clearly that is the way to win an argument. You have absolutely no hypothetical numbers at your disposal at all, you are making it all up. You haven''t even tried to sit down with a calculator and press some digits. That puts you below a fag packet accountant, because a fag packet accountant would at least attempt to do some sort of sums however much guessing they have to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I posted that before I read your latest post.

Its surely about how succesfull we are aiming to be isnt it.

I believe we are aiming to be a success in the Prem, I would hope that the Club feel the same way and have confidence that its acheivable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...