Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Gingerpele

'Lambert would do a better job'

Recommended Posts

Is what i''ve seen someone on twitter say. And undoubtedly some on here. But there are far to many ''Hughton sucks'' threads to go through at the moment.

Do people really think Lambert would be doing a better job? Despite finishing below us last year and being bellow us currently (Ok, they''ve played Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea, but still...). And despite all but what 4 or 5 of his signings being nowhere near the first team (Ruddy, Martin, Johnson, Pilks & Howson). And despite Hughton leading us to our second highest PL finish ever.

Ok, we don''t play the best football, especially away from home. But I think some people have false memories of Lambert. There were long, long frustrating periods in games when we didn''t have the ball. Someone pointed out to me on twitter, we had a game against Stoke when they had 60% possession... How? Yes we were attacking, mainly counter-attacking. But thats partly because the defence was so rubbish.

Hughton''s job isn''t to entertain the away crows. Or even the home crows. Its to finish as high as possible in the PL. Of course he needs to keep the fans happy, and finishing 10th because of a good home record because we can hold teams off and get close hard fought victories doesn''t do that for a large percentage.

I''d rather we played like Barcelona or Man.U or Arsenal or Juve or Madrid. But we don''t. And I''m a Norwich supporter, so I have to put up with it. I don''t support Norwich for fancy football, I support Norwich because they are my club. If Norwich aren''t playing good football and I want to watch some good football there is plenty on the TV. Of course there is room to criticise and improve, i''m fairly sure Hughton recognises that. But over the top ''Hughton is useless, Hughton out'' comments really don''t help. And i''m sure he''d love us to be playing like Barca and winning the league. But on our budget, our stadium size, our current players and potential players that isn''t realistic. Villa are playing how many fans want us to be playing (the Lambert way) and even with a 19 league goal striker, they finished below us. Just take a minute to think about that. Wouldn''t you rather we were successful? Sometimes success comes at a price. We could play like Blackpool/Villa and go down, and stay in the Championship for another few years, if thats what you want, fine, but its a bit strange to want your club to be less successful....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" Hughton''s job isn''t to entertain the away crows. Or even the home crows. Its to finish as high as possible in the PL. Of course he needs to keep the fans happy, and finishing 10th because of a good home record because we can hold teams off and get close hard fought victories doesn''t do that for a large percentage."

 

I disagree with that, it is Hughtons job to keep the fans entertained and happy to watch City to a large degree but more important it is Hughtons brief to keep City moving forward from last season, not easy given the spending of other teams but that''s his job.

 

Swansea are a team which a few on here are unhappy about because we are comparable with given recent history, but watching them last night was a joy, they battled back against a good Liverpool side and took a point, I can''t see Hughton setting up and doing the same!

 

For the record we will need to find 12 - 15 points away from home to stay up, so games like Hull, Palace and Cardiff though not easy are the ones I feel we should be pushing for the win, not setting up to try and take a point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It depends how you measure success. I think he''d be doing better in terms of entertainment, and as he was the messiah, I doubt he would have the fans on his back whatever he did, I think we''d even have still backed him if we went down (in the scenario that he''d never left - we loved him). The entertainment value would be better, and we''d probably be proud of our teams efforts, regardless of the result. That said, I doubt if we''d have brought in the same quality with Lambert, I dont htink he''d have made such great signings as Hughton has. But does that really matter when we''re seeing so little of them?

I think we''d have a happier fan-base, even if we were lower in the league. Lambert had achieved status here that the guy could do no wrong. Hughton doesnt have the same affection, he didnt rescue the club the way Lambo did. We will probably never love him as much. For that reason, I think the fans would be happier, but that we might not necessarily be higher in the league.

Football is about entertainment. People only watch it to be entertained. Remove the entertainement it just becomes 22 men kicking a pigs bladder about. Which isnt very important in the grand scheme of things. Footballers are gods and worshipped as such because we like to be entertained. If we are not, what they do becomes pretty meaningless. A league position is just a number on a piece of paper. An entertaining season is hearts and minds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just a quick point, in reply to you Indy. But i''m fairly sure we did try and beat Hull, and it just went wrong. Which isn''t good. But I can''t accept any claim we were''t trying to win that game. The players were poor, the referee was poor, the tactics and substations almost certainly didn''t help. I do acknowledge the starting line up wasn''t particularly attacking, but the plan was to probably invite Hull to commit men forward and counter attack. We couldn''t break them down, I think the team/Hughton failed to adjust to the change in tactics required.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You''ve got to entertain the crowd, even from a business standpoint that makes sense as shirt sales, food sales, ticket sales, canaries player income etc. all equate to good money coming in. And that''s where revenue would be lost if you drove fans away.

And right now, this is a very real scenario. I don''t know how many people are just angry and are all talk, or how many are being serious about not attending matches.

Many supporters i speak to feel that they are no longer part of a club, are expected to pay out for everything (especially with kits for kids etc.) but ultimately have nothing delivered to them in response.

Lambert would do a better job, there''s no doubt about that - He was a perfect fit here, the big difference is that he''s now gone into a badly struggling club, saved them and is now building an exciting team for the future.

Hughton will be out of a job by Christmas if this carries on, that''s the bottom line, and the decision will be buoyed on from supporters anger.

However, i believe he has the skills to get us into gear, it''s how stubborn he is that defines his future here. And how much Calderwood''s input is being used! (Man i dislike that guy!).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Indy"]

" Hughton''s job isn''t to entertain the away crows. Or even the home crows. Its to finish as high as possible in the PL. Of course he needs to keep the fans happy, and finishing 10th because of a good home record because we can hold teams off and get close hard fought victories doesn''t do that for a large percentage."

 

I disagree with that, it is Hughtons job to keep the fans entertained and happy to watch City to a large degree but more important it is Hughtons brief to keep City moving forward from last season, not easy given the spending of other teams but that''s his job.

 

Swansea are a team which a few on here are unhappy about because we are comparable with given recent history, but watching them last night was a joy, they battled back against a good Liverpool side and took a point, I can''t see Hughton setting up and doing the same!

 

For the record we will need to find 12 - 15 points away from home to stay up, so games like Hull, Palace and Cardiff though not easy are the ones I feel we should be pushing for the win, not setting up to try and take a point.

[/quote]

 

Swansea did battle back against a good Liverpool side and got a point. At home.

 

Didn''t we do exactly that against a good Everton side?

 

And FFS we did not set up to try and get a point at Hull, Jesus wept....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Gingerpele"]Just a quick point, in reply to you Indy. But i''m fairly sure we did try and beat Hull, and it just went wrong. Which isn''t good. But I can''t accept any claim we were''t trying to win that game. The players were poor, the referee was poor, the tactics and substations almost certainly didn''t help. I do acknowledge the starting line up wasn''t particularly attacking, but the plan was to probably invite Hull to commit men forward and counter attack. We couldn''t break them down, I think the team/Hughton failed to adjust to the change in tactics required.[/quote]Very rare I agree with GP but hes right.We absolutly went to win that game, it was just one of them days.The penalty wasnt a penalty and the red card for them was probably a negative for us, as it forced them into putting 9 men behind the ball.No shame in been beat by Spurs and weve picked up 4 points at home, so why the Negativity?

Also Indy, its not CH job to entertain the fans, its his job to be as succsessful as possible for Norwich City FC. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lambert chose to walk away from city. He knew that a second Season in the PL with Championship players was a tough task and so it was. However CH did the job he was given by the Board. This year we have upgraded in some positions but our spend is still modist and for me that was the lesion at Spurs. Lamberts have a go attitude was fine for PL season one, we had nothing to loose. Season 3 is different there is a lot to loose and CH tactics while not entertaining, on a modest budget are consistent with survival first and building a PL team second.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
People who say Lambert walked away from the club as the job was too tough are fooling themselves.

He walked as he''s ambitious, he realised his stock was at it''s highest point ever and took over the reigns at a longer established top league club with a silver plated history in the English, and European game.

Managing a team which he knew and trusted for another season where there was very little pressure on his shoulders is minuscule compared to the lava pit that he jumped in at Villa.

He very nearly picked up silverware in his first season at Villa too... He''s ambitious, he''s a winner. We need MORE managers of his cut in our game.

Hughton killed Holt''s career as a goal scorer and he''ll do the same with RvW. Only Hooper can i see scoring in this setup as he''ll work his behind off regardless of what the team orders are to score as he has England on the agenda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="Indy"]

" Hughton''s job isn''t to entertain the away crows. Or even the home crows. Its to finish as high as possible in the PL. Of course he needs to keep the fans happy, and finishing 10th because of a good home record because we can hold teams off and get close hard fought victories doesn''t do that for a large percentage."

 

I disagree with that, it is Hughtons job to keep the fans entertained and happy to watch City to a large degree but more important it is Hughtons brief to keep City moving forward from last season, not easy given the spending of other teams but that''s his job.

 

Swansea are a team which a few on here are unhappy about because we are comparable with given recent history, but watching them last night was a joy, they battled back against a good Liverpool side and took a point, I can''t see Hughton setting up and doing the same!

 

For the record we will need to find 12 - 15 points away from home to stay up, so games like Hull, Palace and Cardiff though not easy are the ones I feel we should be pushing for the win, not setting up to try and take a point.

[/quote]

 

Swansea did battle back against a good Liverpool side and got a point. At home.

 

Didn''t we do exactly that against a good Everton side?

 

And FFS we did not set up to try and get a point at Hull, Jesus wept....

[/quote]100% agreed. Nor did we set up "defensive" against Spurs. We let the home team have possession, and set up to work the ball up on the counter attack. That''s not defensive. Loads of teams do that away from home. Jose Mourinho has won quite a few big trophies playing that way, and Chelsea fans laud him as a god.I just don''t buy this "we play so defensive" crap that''s currently all over this message board. Sure, we did at times last year, but don''t think we have set up defensively in any game this season. We lacked a cutting edge against 10 man Hull, which was poor. We lacked the quality to keep the ball against Spurs, which made for some painful, but not unexpected watching. But we''re changing. We attacked our way back to get a point against Everton, and we beat Southampton in a game we deserved to win. The 2 games we''ve lost has been down to the players not performing, or being outclassed. Not the way the manager has set them up.The one critisisem I could label at Hughton is that he hasn''t got our players to constantly gel yet. Fer & Johnson bossed the midfield against Southampton, yet couldn''t string 2 passes together against Spurs. You could make the argument against Spurs that our poor working midfield could have been due to playing 2 up front in a 4-4-1-1, rather than having 5 in the midfield. But no one on this message board would make that observation, seeing as though playing 1 up front is ''negative'' - which Hughton didn''t do on the weekend.Then when Hughton did change it and put 5 in the midfield, we actually looked better. Tettey''s inclusion freed Howson to get more forward, as we actually had some time on the ball. However most people on here complained that it was negative to do this and that Hooper should have been given a run. I just don''t think Hughton can win in some peoples eyes. I know our form away from home needs to improve. We''ve had 2 chances to do that so far. I''m going to watch a few more away games, and let the new team bed in a little before I judge if we''ve changed our ways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lambert''s inability to organise an efficient defence is costing Villa and would have seen us relegated last season. Bassong our classiest ever CB was lured by CH defenders selected by Lambert are just too inept at this stage of their careers. Would like to be entertained but another £65m is more acceptable. And you cannot fault the entertainment at Carrow Rd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes I read threads and feel like I''m on another planet to some posters.

 

Would Lambert do a better job. What about Mourinho ?  Or SAF ?  So what ?  Lambert chose to leave us, I suspect he felt he''d taken us as far as he could and wanted to move to a club where he''d have more resources, but he won''t be coming back any time soon.  Personally I doubt whether  he do a better job but its a non-question really.

 

As for the idea that we set up defensively against Hull, thankfully several posters have shot down this idea on this thread, but to repeat - for the first 15 minutes we were well on top, then Turner gave away a penalty (personally I thought it was a pen but an unnecessary mistake by him to concede it) and after the sending off Hull set up to defend, and we weren''t able to combine together well enough to break them down.  A poor performance but to say we weren''t trying to win is just madness.

 

Whereas at Spurs I think we approached the game defensively and paid the price for an over-defensive approach.  By this I mean that we dropped deep, conceded possesion to them until they were well into our half and invited them to attack us, and failed to keep any decent possession of the ball at any point in the game.  If that''s not a defensive approach, I would struggle to say what is. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Its Character Forming"]

Sometimes I read threads and feel like I''m on another planet to some posters.

 

Would Lambert do a better job. What about Mourinho ?  Or SAF ?  So what ?  Lambert chose to leave us, I suspect he felt he''d taken us as far as he could and wanted to move to a club where he''d have more resources, but he won''t be coming back any time soon.  Personally I doubt whether  he do a better job but its a non-question really.

 

As for the idea that we set up defensively against Hull, thankfully several posters have shot down this idea on this thread, but to repeat - for the first 15 minutes we were well on top, then Turner gave away a penalty (personally I thought it was a pen but an unnecessary mistake by him to concede it) and after the sending off Hull set up to defend, and we weren''t able to combine together well enough to break them down.  A poor performance but to say we weren''t trying to win is just madness.

 

Whereas at Spurs I think we approached the game defensively and paid the price for an over-defensive approach.  By this I mean that we dropped deep, conceded possesion to them until they were well into our half and invited them to attack us, and failed to keep any decent possession of the ball at any point in the game.  If that''s not a defensive approach, I would struggle to say what is. 

[/quote]So, we dropped deep and invited them to attack us because we couldn''t stay on the ball? Do you think the plan (or setup) was not to keep possession?Sounds to me like we''re making the same point, but from different directions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Find it strange how some think Lambert would have done a better job.

 

He inherited a squad at Villa which cost just short of 200m, spent a further 30m and still finished below us.

Yet he would have done a better job than Hughton? Despite NOT doing a better job than Hughton in a team with higher value?

 

Makes sense.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Theo - having re-read your post I agree with a lot of what you''re saying (although I would view our approach at Spurs as defensive but I think we agree on a lot of the substance).

 

Thinking over the game, I would agree it was unsuccessful to use Elmander in the hole behind RVW because he didn''t give the defensive help to midfield that is needed.  Effectively we were left with 2 in central midfield and Spurs were allowed to dominate that area, plus as I''ve said before we dropped too deep before challenging them, partly for that reason as well I suspect.  Elmander also failed to win almost any headers all game, which I was hoping is something he would add in that position.  So actually a 4-5-1 with a midfield just behind RVW would actually have been a more attacking formation than what was effectively 4-4-2, because it would have stopped them dominating the midfield.

 

As for retaining possesion,  I agree it wasn''t a deliberate tactic to fail to keep possession.  Partly it was poor play by some of the players concerned, partly it was Redmond and Snoddy trying to do too much often when they had the ball, but a lot of it was just that we sat so deep, we had very little of the ball in the first place.  I don''t have a full explanation for why we were so bad in possesion tho.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have no doubt that Lambert wouldnt do good job as Hughton. They are different type of managers and in my opinion Lambert got us far as he could.

Mayby he could have had one more high risk, high reward season, but I personaly believe we would have dropped down with him eventually.

Great motivator, but there is always point when professionalism will overthrown enthusisam and in my opinion Hughton is quite professional manager. He could learn a bit from Lambert what comes to firing team up, but at the end he is solid coach and sometimes fired up team will run out of their positions and our defence would break apart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Forget Lambert, he''s the past ...thanks for the memories, but we '' go again '' (!)

Ruddy''s post match comments seem very significant to me.

I was supremely impressed watching Swansea play last night, with and without the ball.

Why the hell can''t we do that?

Really like how CH comes across, his dignity seems a lovely fit for our club. His football doesn''t however.

How does Huw Jenkins keep picking the right man to evolve Swansea further?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some of the football under Lambert wasn''t as good as people remember. Some of the weaknesses under Lambert, such as an inability to attack down the middle, persist under Hughton. The truth is that we''ve been over-reliant on crosses and wing play ever since we got promoted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Lambert achieved more points than Hughton with a squad of, according to the happy clappers, crap players.

I don''t think Lambert would have signed as well as Hughton, but he certainly gets more out of the players.

Lambert is also willing to mix things up when games are not going our way, he doesn''t give up the moment we go a goal down like Hughton.

In the end it doesn''t matter, Lambert is gone and Hughton is our manager. And the Hoot has the opportunity to achieve even greater success than Lambert managed at the club.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take issue with the first point as a happy clapper who has never said that.

 

I take issue with the second because we haven''t seen Lambert manage Hughton''s players.

 

I take issue with the third because we do come back from being a goal down. We did against Everton 3 games ago.

 

So basically foggy.....

 

Your post is full of crap!

 

No offence buddy[;)]

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nutty professor nigel: I take issue with the second because we haven''t seen Lambert manage Hughton''s players.

And you never will. Lambert achieved more points with a weaker squad. Hughton had all Lambert''s players + his own to choose from.

--- I take issue with the third because we do come back from being a goal down. We did against Everton 3 games ago.

 

So basically foggy.....

I didn''t say the team are unable to come back, I said Hughton gives up, like he did on Saturday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if you seriously believe the crap you write then there was little point in Villa replacing McLeish with Lambert was there? Benteke probably won them the three extra points. No, actually he probably won them 15 points so McLeish got more out of the rest of them..

 

No offence buddy[;)]

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

--- nutty professor nigel: Then there was little point in Villa replacing McLeish with Lambert was there? Benteke probably won them the three extra points. No, actually he probably won them 15 points so McLeish got more out of the rest of them..

It was a lame point, responding to your lame BS post buddy. Villa''s situation was a tad different to our own, with an ageing squad on the slide and a massive wage bill to reduce.

I don''t like to get into these Lambert/Hughton comparisons because they are completely different managers. Lambert will forever be remembered as one of the most successful managers in our history. Hughton has a chance to do the same. There is little more to be said really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]nutty professor nigel: I take issue with the second because we haven''t seen Lambert manage Hughton''s players. And you never will. Lambert achieved more points with a weaker squad. Hughton had all Lambert''s players + his own to choose from. --- I take issue with the third because we do come back from being a goal down. We did against Everton 3 games ago.

 

So basically foggy..... I didn''t say the team are unable to come back, I said Hughton gives up, like he did on Saturday.[/quote]

 

You can''t compare last season with the season before, different teams in the league and different players. Lambert finished with more points but Hughton finished higher, this would suggest the league was a lot tighter last season than it was the year before.

 

Lets not forget the squad Lambert inherited with a £24m striker etc, spent another £30m on this squad, and still finished below Hughtons Norwich who''s squad was probably about £20m in total.

 

Last season and so far this season, Hughton has, and is doing a better job than Lambert on a smaller budget. That is fact 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it fair to suggest that the outcome of the two matches between Hughtons team and Lamberts team might answer this question?

Or is this too simplistic? Is the job Lambert is doing at Villa indicative of what might have happened here? Or has he now gone off on a different approach due to Villa''s size and finances (hasnt Hughton spent more than Lambert?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
---- ellis206: You can''t compare last season with the season before, different teams in the league and different players. Lambert finished with more points.

---- ellis206: Lets not forget the squad Lambert inherited with a £24m striker etc, spent another £30m on this squad, and still finished below Hughtons Norwich who''s squad was probably about £20m in total.

So you say you can''t compare things, then you go and compare... what a load of junk as usual.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-- Warren Hill: Don''t address the point though will you cock''ead

That Lambert took over a club on the slide who had sold the majority of their decent players, with an ageing squad and massive wage bill, and that to compare this to Hughton taking over a club on the rise, with a young squad and a low wage bill is a bit silly.

Villa''s net spend since Lambert arrived is 31.5 million, since Hughton arrived we have spent net 31.9 million. A knats whisker in it, and similar in the two clubs results since the new managers arrived..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...