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The Great Mass Debater

Stadium Expansion

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I would stop digging if I were you. Having put the daftest post EVER on this board, adding to it is only losing you the 1% of credibility you did have. [:$]

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[quote user="paul moy"]Maybe not because all private companies are vulnerable to the market, but sufficient revenue will definitely be there in some way or other if we remain in the top division. That''s why I mentioned ''sustainable, in that obviously worst case scenarios and proper contingency planning are essential. If we are relegated for instance we could have a clause whereby repayments halve until we get back, just as I hope we have similar clauses in players'' contracts.[/quote]I would stop digging if I were you. Having put the daftest post EVER on

this board, adding to it is only losing you the 1% of credibility you

did have. [:$]

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Am I right in thinking over the last two season we have cleared our debt of 25m?

Is it not possible to focus on saving 25m over the next two season, and if we are still in the need, build it after completing our 4th season in PL.

That would save taking out the large loan.

We now have more money coming in after the new TV deal

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[quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]After the hotel err... debate, I wrote to  Mr. McNally and he sent a  reply saying there was to be no money spent on expanding the stadium at all and that every available penny is to be spent on developing the team.    No time scale, but it would appear that the club realises that to keep pace with other clubs'' spending, we have to put every available resource into the team.  [/quote]

A point that more than a few pointed out to you in your long-winded hotel thread where you advocated spending money in a harebrained way made sense. [/quote]

My long winded hotel thread was hard to follow through because of the insulting attitudes of some of the posters - of which, I may say you were by far the worst - in amongst some good posts.  The hotel development idea was my hobby horse, admittedly,  but one that  by the end of that thread actually had some sense to it, thanks to the positive contributions by the less closed minded posters out there.  As the financial burden would be taken mainly by the hotel group, not the club, it still represents a solution to the improvement of that corner of the ground.   Time will tell what happens in the way of ground improvements.  I still hope whatever is done in upgrading the stadium in the future, the hotel corner will one day be more integrated into the stadium.

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Paul, you are an utter fool.

It is exactly this sort of thinking that has knocked some clubs for seven. Spend money that we haven''t got and that we can''t be sure about having for a serious length of time.

Not only that but you are talking of building a 60-70k seater stadium.

The above bit is what I find the most difficult to fathom. It is quite clear from what the board have said, expanding Carrow Road to be around a 35-40k seater would cost around £20-£30million.

Although Purple has questioned where that figure has come from in the past I believe.

You example of Arsenal is the Emirates Stadium - the cost of building the new stadium was £390 million. I very much doubt that your quote of return on Highbury in comparison to cost of the new stadium.

Also, having family from North London, I know that they had a massive waiting list for season tickets, so they knew to what levels they could already sell tickets. Just to highlight a comparison here, I visited Anfield around three years ago now - at that time their predicted waiting time for a season ticket was around 15 years - ours is currently five years. Anfield has a capacity of 45k.

This is just silly on so many levels and really does spoil what is otherwise a good, mature discussion.

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Pathetic, truly pathetic.

I''d rather be in a 35k capacity stadium with it sold out and rocking to the rafters rather than a huge one we cant afford and has the atmosphere of a ghost town.

Norwich isn''t little, I never said it was - I have merely stated reality which is that we are not a club that has occupied the top four of the english premier division for most of the last twenty+ years.

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[quote user="Chelmsford Canary"]Am I right in thinking over the last two season we have cleared our debt of 25m?

Is it not possible to focus on saving 25m over the next two season, and if we are still in the need, build it after completing our 4th season in PL.

That would save taking out the large loan.

We now have more money coming in after the new TV deal[/quote]Too simplistic CC. Chelsea have already come in for Ruddy and today''s talk is of Snodgrass / West Ham. If we are to retain our better players we will have to match the wages offered by other clubs. Buying players relatively cheaply is one thing, but keeping them is another. The club have made it clear, all available money will be spent on the team.

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[quote user="lake district canary"][quote user="YankeeCanary"]

[quote user="lake district canary"]After the hotel err... debate, I wrote to  Mr. McNally and he sent a  reply saying there was to be no money spent on expanding the stadium at all and that every available penny is to be spent on developing the team.    No time scale, but it would appear that the club realises that to keep pace with other clubs'' spending, we have to put every available resource into the team. 
[/quote]

A point that more than a few pointed out to you in your long-winded hotel thread where you advocated spending money in a harebrained way made sense. [/quote]


My long winded hotel thread was hard to follow through because of the insulting attitudes of some of the posters - of which, I may say you were by far the worst - in amongst some good posts.  The hotel development idea was my hobby horse, admittedly,  but one that  by the end of that thread actually had some sense to it, thanks to the positive contributions by the less closed minded posters out there.  As the financial burden would be taken mainly by the hotel group, not the club, it still represents a solution to the improvement of that corner of the ground.   Time will tell what happens in the way of ground improvements.  I still hope whatever is done in upgrading the stadium in the future, the hotel corner will one day be more integrated into the stadium.


[/quote]

 

If it''s a financial solution that would be mainly taken by the hotel group then, did you actually communicate with the hotel group or, if your communication was only with McNally, how effective were you in making this point to him. Obviously, you failed to clarify that in your first post here. Surely, if you were truly grateful for those positive posters input on the "hotel thread", then you owe it to them to illustrate how you decided to effectively communicate with NCFC that such a change would not affect the club and, more importantly why the hotel group should be willing to incur any financial burden. You might even share a copy of your correspondence so people can see how effectively you made your point. I mean, after all of that input on the hotel thread your first effort to summarize here, namely,  "but it would appear that the club realises that to keep pace with other clubs'' spending, we have to put every available resource into the team" sounds rather hollow and lame, don''t you think? 

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Would it be possible for you to publish your detailed business plan and cash flow projections please?

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[quote user="Webbo118"]Would it be possible for you to publish your detailed business plan and cash flow projections please?[/quote]

 

Above addressed to PM

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[quote user="chicken"]Paul, you are an utter fool. It is exactly this sort of thinking that has knocked some clubs for seven. Spend money that we haven''t got and that we can''t be sure about having for a serious length of time. Not only that but you are talking of building a 60-70k seater stadium. The above bit is what I find the most difficult to fathom. It is quite clear from what the board have said, expanding Carrow Road to be around a 35-40k seater would cost around £20-£30million. Although Purple has questioned where that figure has come from in the past I believe. You example of Arsenal is the Emirates Stadium - the cost of building the new stadium was £390 million. I very much doubt that your quote of return on Highbury in comparison to cost of the new stadium. Also, having family from North London, I know that they had a massive waiting list for season tickets, so they knew to what levels they could already sell tickets. Just to highlight a comparison here, I visited Anfield around three years ago now - at that time their predicted waiting time for a season ticket was around 15 years - ours is currently five years. Anfield has a capacity of 45k. This is just silly on so many levels and really does spoil what is otherwise a good, mature discussion.[/quote]

 

Careful please - complete accurate but you are in grave danger of being accused of bullying !!!!

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No. Being a bully would be singling someone out and calling them silly names for no reason other than for fun or some sort of personal buzz.

A fool:

1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding.

2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion

I would argue that give PM''s comments he would match this criteria as per the free dictionary.

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Just for giggles, if we were to build a new out-of-city Stadium where would be the best site? Bear in mind that the NDR will be completed sometime before the turn of the century.

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Flatten Harford Bridge Tesco, get them to move into the former Bally''s site, and build it out there. Ready-made car park and only just out of town. Access to the A47. Would need to expand the plot somewhat, but hey. If we''re living in cloud cuckoo land, no problem!

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Having just read Paul Moy''s laughable efforts on this thread may I suggest that the fantasy running around his head should meet up with the real world for a chat. 60-70k stadium to me smacks that he is on those long filterless roll your own fags.

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[quote user="paul moy"]OK forget it. Let''s stay l''il ol'' narrich.... [:)][/quote]It''s nice to dream Paul but some of the ideas you''ve put forward are extreme even by Tom Cavendish standards.McNally explained at the last AGM that £30 million would be needed to upgrade the stadium to a 35k capacity. The proposal was put before various prospective lenders and nobody was interested in putting the money up. Any spare cash is going to be ploughed into the playing side in order to maintain Premiership status. There is no likelihood of expansion anytime soon and the chances of moving to an out of town stadium are as close to zero as makes no difference.

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[quote user="chicken"]No. Being a bully would be singling someone out and calling them silly names for no reason other than for fun or some sort of personal buzz. A fool: 1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding. 2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion I would argue that give PM''s comments he would match this criteria as per the free dictionary.[/quote]

 

I know what you mean but:-

 

 Webbo118 wrote:

 paul moy wrote:

Welcome into the World, James !!!  That''s the name I would like anyway....

 

Surely got to be Prince Cody.



Do you realise that what you do is bullying ?  Let it rest, please.

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Bloomin eck Paul Moy. I''m one of the big optimists myself and was ridiculed for suggesting that we could steal a top six place or two, but that''s on a whole new level.
I see 35000 as more realistic, 40000 tops. Whatever we can squeeze into Carrow Road will be just fine. We aren''t ever going to fill 60000 to 70000 seats. Newcastle averaged 50000 last season, but there were plenty of games where they got more like 45000 with very noticeable vacant patches.
Anything over 40000 seats would see us having huge empty areas and make us look like Wigan. If we want to avoid noticeable empty areas on the Sky cameras then 35000 will give us near enough a full house most weeks in this league and allow us to give another thousand or so seats to away fans. 

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I wonder if there''s any chance of introducing safe standing into stadiums in the new 5-10 years? I''d rather we hold off till then if it is. It''d be much cheaper to build a new stand with that in mind, and it would help the atmosphere no end.

Discounting that I think we probably could fill a 35k+ stadium. With more seats prices could be reduced; there''s plenty of money to be made beyond just selling the tickets, just ask any cinema/concert venue.

The team comes first obviously, but we''re looking like a very solid Premiership team now and have very few players at an age where we''re going to need to replace them. From the next transfer window onwards I expect player sales will provide a large share of the funds to improve the squad.

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If we are to expand it''ll be at Carrow Road. It''s big enough to accoodate a 30,000 - 40,000 seat stadium, the issue is where does $25 - $35m come from?

IMO we''ll see some alternative means explored to expand access to matchdays - such as video streaming to local theatres with the club revenue sharing.

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Why on earth would we want an entire new Stadium?

Most of the teams that chose or are forced to build a new stadium do so due to constraints at their current location - It can''t support the size of expansion, can''t get planning permission, don''t own their ground or the land it is on, more financially viable to build a new ground on cheaper land etc. etc.

As far as I''m aware Carrow Road is not likely to suffer any major constraints if it is expanded to the 35k (possibly a bit more) that the board has previously suggested. Not to mention the fact the Jarrold isn''t even 10 years old!

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4 pages and no mention of peppercorns... We are making real progress guys!

On topic, I''d imagine the club do have a time frame dependent on top flight survival, I''d imagine we will see something about expansion at the end of next season if we are still on course for a 5th season in the top flight.

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[quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="chicken"]No. Being a bully would be singling someone out and calling them silly names for no reason other than for fun or some sort of personal buzz. A fool: 1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding. 2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion I would argue that give PM''s comments he would match this criteria as per the free dictionary.[/quote]

 

I know what you mean but:-

 

 Webbo118 wrote:

 paul moy wrote:

Welcome into the World, James !!!  That''s the name I would like anyway....

 

Surely got to be Prince Cody.



Do you realise that what you do is bullying ?  Let it rest, please.

[/quote]

You lost me there . . . . what was the quoted bit for?

As for bullying, nope. I have no problem with Paul or him being able to air his opinion.

However when people are kind enough to question it the least he could do is actually put forward some form of decent explanation.

And if the last bit is aimed at me, perhaps you aught to suggest it to the other people that have posted on this thread saying the same thing Webbo.

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Easy-peasy, replace the main Stand at the end of this season and have a 35, 000 seater.

 

Get Aviva to put up some dosh in return for naming rights.

 

Start demolition the minute the ref. blows the final whistle on the last home game.

 

Ship in 500 Chinese navvies to work round the clock speed-building and there you go a brand new stand in time for the first friendly of the season.

 

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kurtdGR0rV4

 

All sorted.  

 

As I said. easy!  [:D][:D]

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I always enjoy threads about the Stadium expansion, and have no problem with it reoccuring.

For me, regardless of what has been said by the club, I actually believe that within the next two years, subject to progress on the field (i.e we are not dicing with relegation) they will announce a plan to expand Carrow Road upto a figure between 35-40,000, I really think in reality it will be close to the top of their agenda once they know how this years player investments are looking.

This number would be ideal when considering current attendances and demand, surely anymore would be questionable when looking at the population in the general catchment area.

Oh, also thought LDC''s original idea regarding the Hotel was the type of solution the club should look at.

 

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Oh fawk it! Help.

 

For information it is a very fascinating speeded up video showing Chinese construction workers build a massive hotel from scratch in just six days. (can be wiki''d.)

 

This is the trend in Asia now and will surely happen over here soon when speed of construction is vital.

 

Pre-fabrication is part of the secret of course.

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Just on the Wolves thing if you look a little closer I don''t believe the comparison is actually a particularly good one.

Wolves did not survive comfortably in either of their initial 2 seasons. Wolves were never that secure in the PL, 15th finish (on 38 points in an atrocious bottom 7) followed by a 17th (40 points) in the second season is hardly an established top team (And was a far worse performance than our first two seasons), they were always going to be in amongst the relegation favourites.

They then made the mistake our board has already avoided by putting money into a stadium in a year that should have been focussed on continuing their stay in the PL based on the previous two seasons performances. They then sacked McCarthy in a bewildering act of self destruction ensuring their relegation when they didn''t replace him.

The Wolves board mistake wasn''t just expanding it was doing it too early, it also proved to be one of many mistakes.

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[quote user="chicken"][quote user="Webbo118"]

[quote user="chicken"]No. Being a bully would be singling someone out and calling them silly names for no reason other than for fun or some sort of personal buzz. A fool: 1. One who is deficient in judgment, sense, or understanding. 2. One who acts unwisely on a given occasion I would argue that give PM''s comments he would match this criteria as per the free dictionary.[/quote]

 

I know what you mean but:-

 

 Webbo118 wrote:

 paul moy wrote:

Welcome into the World, James !!!  That''s the name I would like anyway....

 

Surely got to be Prince Cody.



Do you realise that what you do is bullying ?  Let it rest, please.

[/quote] You lost me there . . . . what was the quoted bit for? As for bullying, nope. I have no problem with Paul or him being able to air his opinion. However when people are kind enough to question it the least he could do is actually put forward some form of decent explanation. And if the last bit is aimed at me, perhaps you aught to suggest it to the other people that have posted on this thread saying the same thing Webbo.[/quote]

 

Sorry, let me expand. The quoted bit was to explain my previous comment. I was accused of bullying for suggesting that the royal baby was going to be called Prince Cody. I have two gripes about PM. The first one isn''t really a gripe; merely to say I find myself disagreeing with just about everything he says. The second is that, when he is losing an argument, he either goes quiet or resorts to nonsense, e.g. "you''re bullying me".  

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