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DannyNCFC7

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"I had a forces railcard up until about 2006, and when I was commuting between Coltishall and Marham the travel allowance was pretty spot on, and in line with similar allowances given to civilians. I have had plenty jobs where you get nothing for travelling to work. So try not to paint too bleak a picture!"

Where did you work at Marham? I''ve been there for 8 years now.

A couple of examples of the treatment of forces personnel. Not a whinge... You come to expect this sort of thing.

When I first got to Marham, new arrivals were being put into shared barracks. Not a problem usually but these were 32 man rooms with 16 bunks beds. Someone looked it up and found out you couldn''t legally have kept 32 pigs in the same space. There were shift workers coming in at all hours while people were sleeping off armed guard shifts, and chefs getting up at 4am when the night shift workers had only been in bed since 3am.

Some lads were housed in there for 4 months.

I went on detachment to Gibraltar. Nice, you might think, and it was, but the accommodation was a disgrace. Every time you wanted a shower or to use the toilet, you had to wade through ankle high urine because the toilets didn''t work. The blocks we stayed in had been condemned. No-one outside the military would ever have been allowed to stay in them, but it''s ok for us. How no-one came down with D&V is beyond me. It was rank.

When we go on ops to Afghanistan, or wherever, you accept that it''s going to be awful as that''s part of what you signed up for.

The above examples are when things should be done properly and you should be housed and looked after properly. Not in a palatial manner, but to a minimum standard, and certainly not in conditions that would be illegal for anyone but the military.

Thankfully the accommodation issue isn''t a problem for me as I moved out into private housing as soon as I could afford it.

"Again, full respect for our armed forces but don''t underestimate the crap some of us civvys have to put up with at work too."

Yes, life is hard, but you do your 70 hour weeks safe in the knowledge that a mortar or rocket isn''t about to about to land right next to you. Many forces personnel do 100 hour weeks in 50 degree heat, without a proper bed to sleep on. I''m only guessing here, so please put me straight if need be, but I''d guess that what you do now doesn''t require much training or much in the way of qualifications, which is probably why you don''t earn that much. How hard you work has never been intrinsically linked to how much you earn. It''s generally more to do with the skills you possess and the value they add. That''s why footballers get paid so much.

In less than 10 years in the military, I''ve spent over 2 of those on training courses, and I did a degree before that.

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Don''t get me wrong, I wasn''t trying to say life in the forces is a bed of roses, I work with 5 ex-soldiers, so I''m well aware that it isn''t.

Agreed military accomodation is shameful, but my first year working for an outdoor education company - the company provided accomodation (living off site was not an option) was a 6 foot by 8 foot room surrounded by cabins housing over 100 kids so same issues with noise disturbance etc. I did that for a year.

In terms of my work - it doesn''t require any quals (although I have a degree) but does require a fair bit of training. In terms of earning, it''s like anything else, I need to get some experience and work my way up.

I get what you''re saying about knowing a mortar isn''t going to land next to me, but by the same token, when you go to make a coffee or whatever then you are safe in the knowledge that the person in front of you isn''t going to throw their boiling hot drink in your face and smash you round the head with the mug. OK the damage will be significantly less but it''s just as unpredictable and happened to a colleague of mine on Sunday.

I''m not trying to undermine what the forces do, or the shit they have to put up with, just trying to say everyone has their own s*** to deal with to varying degrees, and those in the forces know what they are signing up for so I don''t think free footy tickets is really necessary [:)]

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[quote user="DannyNCFC7"]Do anyone know if norwich give tickets to TICKETS FOR TROOPS this season?[/quote]I know there was a system last season. My RAF daughter tried to get me city tickets on two occasions, the only ones where they were available. Her details were put into a draw to see who got them. But unfortunately she did not succeed.i would guess from that, that there are very few available on each occasion.

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[quote user="nu_matik"]Why should the armed forces get tickets? They get paid far better than me and in engage in wars not always necessary, causing death. Well done, here have a free ticket to something totally unrelated... total joke.[/quote]so are you moron.

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Why should troops get tickets? Yeah, they''re brave I guess, but so is your average Joe working on high-rise construction jobs. They don''t represent the views and actions of most rational thinking people and support for illegitimate war is fast diminishing. I''d be mightily p*ssed off if City started giving tickets to troops. I''m not trying to be personal toward servicemen and women and I''m sure you genuinely believe that what you do is for a good cause. But unfortunately it''s not and people are waking up to the fact that the military is an illegitimate source of hostility when the world needs a good dose of peace for a change.

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"Why should troops get tickets? Yeah, they''re brave I guess, but so is your average Joe working on high-rise construction jobs. They don''t represent the views and actions of most rational thinking people and support for illegitimate war is fast diminishing. I''d be mightily p*ssed off if City started giving tickets to troops. I''m not trying to be personal toward servicemen and women and I''m sure you genuinely believe that what you do is for a good cause. But unfortunately it''s not and people are waking up to the fact that the military is an illegitimate source of hostility when the world needs a good dose of peace for a change."

So, to be clear, you don''t think it''s necessary for the UK to have a military?

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I don''t think it''s necessary for any nation to have a military, not just the UK. Like I said, not meaning to be disrespectful to servicemen and women, I just don''t think they deserve tickets more than anybody else.

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TBH I think you must live in an alternate reality.

We don''t just fight wars, you know?

Remember the firefighters strikes?

What would have happened there if the mitary hadn''t stepped up? Do we just let people burn to death?

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Of course you''re going to take it personally. I get it. I might too if I was you. Great work on putting out fires by the way. But I guess I must live in an alternate reality if don''t want to see people dying needlessly. We, as the human race, are trained to make a joke of anybody who challenges the ''normal'' view so I''ll leave you to your vision of the world and leave it there.Enjoy the season.

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I''m not taking it personally at all. I just don''t subscribe to a view where countries can do without a military. I never have, even when I wasn''t a member.

If every country were to agree to disband their forces, then fine, but it''s never going to happen, so it''s ridiculous to suggest its not needed.

There''s always some lunatic in charge somewhere, and it''s only the threat of foreign military action that stops them from carrying out their threats. Can you imagine what Kim Jong would get up to if there was no consequence to his actions?

This idea of a utopia where everyone just gets along doesn''t, and can''t exist. There has been war and fighting since time began. It''s not going to change.

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Can we get one thing straight here, the Armed Forces have not gone to anyone "cap in hand" and demanded this and that or this is how we wish to be treated. It is a very large part of the population of our great country wanting to show their appreciation for the work our troops do. Yes, some say what about our police, fire service and nurses, thats fine, but as with our service men and women, they all knew before they signed on the dotted line the hardships of each job, however, can you give me any one time you have known the armed services to go on strike because of the conditions and pay?

Happy Minden Day

Vikings Rule

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Well that completely depends on what you believe my friend. We only know what the media tells us and the people who own the world media have their own agendas. This isn''t a debate for the Pinkun anyway. All I can say is, get your reading specs out and have a read of what''s really going on in the world. Wikileaks is a good start. Millions of people want answers, not just the guy going by the name of Cedric Pantselin.Just as a side note, war isn''t necessarily in our nature http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23340252

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[quote user="QHcanary"]TBH I think you must live in an alternate reality.

We don''t just fight wars, you know?

Remember the firefighters strikes?

What would have happened there if the mitary hadn''t stepped up? Do we just let people burn to death?[/quote]Yeah we start illegal wars as well...

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"Well that completely depends on what you believe my friend. We only know what the media tells us and the people who own the world media have their own agendas. This isn''t a debate for the Pinkun anyway. All I can say is, get your reading specs out and have a read of what''s really going on in the world. Wikileaks is a good start. Millions of people want answers, not just the guy going by the name of Cedric Pantselin. Just as a side note, war isn''t necessarily in our nature http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-23340252"

I don''t need to read wiki leaks to know that conflict isn''t going away any time soon. There''s just too many groups in the world that are at odds with each other, not to mention "leaders" like Gaddafi who will slaughter their own people.

As a side note, don''t wax lyrical about the media having an agenda, and then quote an article from the BBC. If any media organisation has got an agenda, it''s the BBC.

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I am struggling to believe some of the stuff written on this thread by some people.

Those working in ''civvy street''...

If you and your work colleagues do not agree with a way of work, or how things are, you have the option to strike or even walk out and tell them to shove the job where the sun don''t shine.

Military people are the only career people I am aware of that are not allowed to strike...that''s why they were used for the fireman''s strikes......and walking out is still called AWOL and ends up in prison. Sure, you can opt to leave, giving (normally around) 6 months notice...just enough time for yet another dessert trip.

We all know that firemen, police, nurses etc all do the best they can with the resources they have...but thy have a larger say as there can be, and is the threat of strike.

Look at it this way.

 

If the police or firemen (possibly nurses) go on strike, it is the military that our (we voted) government turns to and expects to be more stretched to cover these important roles...Imagine if the military were allowed to go on strike....Who would the government turn to?? Doubt it would be you Mr Civilian (TA and reservists excepted)

 

Show the respect where it should be shown.

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The military just do as they''re told. Nobody''s blaming you for that - it''s your job. If you''re told somebody like Saddam Hussein or Gaddafi are killing their own people, firstly I would question (if it actually happened that is) why that''s our issue to rectify and secondly (if it did actually happen) where they got the fire power to do it in the first place. Maybe thirdly, what does the UK (U.S.) gain from fixing the problem. I don''t see us going in and annihilating third world countries like Congo and Sudan where mass genocide is rife and well documented. Why''s that I wonder? Did we ever find those WMDs by the way? Ah well, at least they got democracy, right? Oh yeah, a puppet government who the Iraqis and Afghans despise. At least it was worth the hundreds of thousands of deaths. I''m sure Saddam would have killed them all with his WMDs anyway, so what''s the difference. People need to get their heads out of their a*ses and wake the f*ck up before the whole world goes to shit so badly that there''s no way back. YES YOU DO need to read sites like Wikileaks - ignorant people are the reason world powers are allowed to get away with this and maintain the public''s backing for completely shambolic and deceitful foreign policies. Education is the only way to fix it.Not sure there could be anything agenda driven about a research study suggesting war is not innate, wherever it might be published. You''re completely missing the point pal.

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There were people needlessly dying in Benghazi. If you''re questioning whether it was happening then you''re the one who needs to get their head out of their ass. I don''t need to question it. I''ve seen it with my own eyes.

Now you said earlier that you don''t want people to die needlessly. If there hasn''t been an intervention in Libya, many many more people would have died. I don''t believe for one second that there wasn''t something in it for the UK, but since what have gov ernments been interested in action that doesn''t benefit them? Some good was done in Libya, regardless of the motives. Don''t forget that there was a UN resolution authorising military action to stop the slaughter.

I''m not being drawn into the debate about Iraq. We all know it was based on lies. A massive mistake. It was always obvious why we went there.

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"I guess I must live in an alternate reality if don''t want to see people dying needlessly"

"Saddam Hussein or Gaddafi are killing their own people, firstly I would question (if it actually happened that is) why that''s our issue to rectify"

You are trollin. You can''t hold up your viewpoint the the world should all live in harmony then say "they are killing each, but its not our problem".

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norwich do give tickets to the troops i just looked at the website and you can get tickets for NORWICH V REAL SOCIEDAD. nothing big but still save 15 pounds

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QH-

I was last at Marham in 2008, I left after having finished my 22. I worked in GEF. I left and got a proper job lol.

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[quote user="Monty13"]"I guess I must live in an alternate reality if don''t want to see people dying needlessly"

"Saddam Hussein or Gaddafi are killing their own people, firstly I would question (if it actually happened that is) why that''s our issue to rectify"

You are trollin. You can''t hold up your viewpoint the the world should all live in harmony then say "they are killing each, but its not our problem".[/quote]Firstly, you''re putting words into my mouth. Don''t quote when it was never said. Of course it''s our problem - we created the problem systematically. Saddam and Gaddafi needed to be removed from power because of their brutality towards their own people. But the brutality happens because they oppose the leader''s method of governance, which was heavily influenced by the West.They''re killing each other, in part, due to Western foreign policy and the elites of their respective nations'' willingness to cosy up for personal gains while the rest suffer. Factions occur because the regular citizens strongly disagree with what''s going on in their respective countries. Al-Qaeda and the like wouldn''t even exist if it wasn''t fighting the corrupt and illegal influence of the West over their sovereignty. ''They hate our freedom so they''re building nukes (Iran next) to destroy our freedom'' is one line fed to us. They''ve got WMDs (Iraq). A handful of untrained Muslims took down three New York financial centres and crashed into the Pentagon (Afghanistan). Haha! It''s unbelievable that anybody actually believes any of it. Good way to police the world''s finances/resources while sounding legitimate though. You think the Arab spring was pure coincidence? No, they''re trying to take the power away from the current decision makers and empower the regular folk to make their own decisions. The reason many of them hate the West is because of the West''s foreign policy and subsequent actions to pre-emptively eliminate ''threats to our freedom''. It gets more and more ridiculous. Can you imagine if it was the other way round? I''d be mightily p*ssed off, don''t know about you.I''m not trying to be personal towards you or anybody (especially the army because they''re just doing their job) but it''s time to see things for how they really are and stop listening to the BS fed to us every day. Disagree with me all you like, pick apart a certain line of what I''ve written by all means, but the basic principles are there. Not everybody is a hippie for wanting a bit of justice and not everybody is a meat head for backing our army/government going into places and tearing it apart. Everybody is different and entitled to believe what they want. I run a business with four employees, I have a degree in English, I go out drinking with my mates, I play footy at the weekends. We''re all different, but the same. I''m not judging you for your beliefs.

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Firstly without wanting to digress into a grammar argument the first two quotation marked sentences in my post were direct quotes from your posts, you did say them. The final quotation marked sentence was my interpretation from those two quotes of what you were SAYING therefore grammatically it belongs in quotation marks.

Lets ignore that and agree that you did not say that final sentence however please explain to me how else you interpret the words "Saddam Hussein or Gaddafi are killing their own people, firstly I would question why that''s our issue to rectify"? as someone preaching humanist values I find that a particularly bizarre statement.

But you''re now saying of course it''s our problem, good I agree, any decent human being should wish to see intervention to protect the lives and alleviate the suffering of others.

And now we move onto the rest of your argument which I''m afraid to me is confusing and hard to follow, I''m not trying to be insulting, it is the nature of text based only conversation.

"brutality happens because they oppose the leader''s method of governance, which was heavily influenced by the West."

Firstly the term West is overused by the media and can refer to many things, the culture, ideology, political system, foreign policy of countries. It''s also quite disrespectful as many "Western" countries oppose each other in many of these views.

But anyway how has a collection of almost exclusively constitutional democracy''s heavily influenced governance practices of these countries? Most have been variations of feudal society since time began and that has morphed into modern dictatorships, even if in name they are democratic. If you''re saying that foreign policy of western countries has supported dictatorships (which it seems like you are), then of course rightly or wrongly it has over many years. However this is not an exclusive Western trait, Russia and China continue to support particularly brutal dictatorships around the world most notably Syria and North Korea.

"Al-Qaeda and the like wouldn''t even exist if it wasn''t fighting the corrupt and illegal influence of the West over their sovereignty" Actually it arose fighting against the blatantly obvious Russian usurping of Afghan sovereignty but again we could digress massively. Al-Qaeda also exists because of the many different interpretations of how Muslim society should be ran and the Western governments choice to back the political groups more closely aligned with their interests.

"A handful of untrained Muslims took down three New York financial centres and crashed into the Pentagon (Afghanistan). Haha! It''s unbelievable that anybody actually believes any of it. Good way to police the world''s finances/resources while sounding legitimate though." I literally have no idea what you are trying to say and am not going to go there.

"You think the Arab spring was pure coincidence? No, they''re trying to take the power away from the current decision makers and empower the regular folk to make their own decisions" The Arab spring is almost the only modern example of modern communication fuelling mass desire for change. It is an historic event that has lead to great changes in some countries, instability in others and downright disaster in Syria for both sides. I would argue it is also been fuelled by people in those countries wishing for the freedom they perceive Western countries to have, some good western influence perchance? Many Libyans are extremely pro US/UK/France etc. after the NATO operations there, however I imagine there are many Gaddafi supporters and relatives of those killed by NATO that aren''t too happy. There are always two sides, you can never please everyone.

The problem you have is not that people are fed BS as you say it''s that they don''t choose to challenge it and use their brains. I feel I have a fairly rational handle on what''s going on in the world, is it all good? and do I agree with every decision made by Western governments? no. Is everything western governments do evil and corrupting other nations? no. Do Western Governments usually look after their own interests first? Yes, but so do all the other governments that aren''t western.

"but it''s time to see things for how they really are" I''m not sure you are but as always that is my opinion.

I don''t need to look at wikileaks, most of what they publish as secret is absolute dross. I also find it amusing after Edward Snowdens "revelations" that anyone who has watched a Bourne film or Enemy of the State finds it surprising the US government is spying on people and other countries! So is everyone, China, Russia, Iran, North Korea....

I''m not judging you for your beliefs either, "Everybody is different and entitled to believe what they want" within reason yes of course they are and should!

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[quote user="Unhinged Canary"]This is a conversation that always sparks heated debate. I''ll retain the same stance I always do. I''m a staunch pacifist, I think that war is a senseless waste of human life.I have utmost respect for troops past and present, and what they do home and abroad.But, I don''t agree with all the constant whining and bleating about how hard and tough it is, and what a raw deal that they get and how they deserve this and deserve that.I sit behind a desk for 8.5 hours a day earning an average wage. The reason?Basically, I don''t like getting shot at. I''ve tried it on the Xbox, and I don''t even like it on there, so I''m pretty sure I''d be crap at it in real life.Love your job, take pride in your job, but don''t start crying about it when it turns sour. Because no-one put a gun to your head to do it....[/quote]This. Please remember for every proud military supporting Englishmen, there is a dead Arab who wishes we wouldn`t have invaded their country (approximately 200,000 dead civilians in Iraq alone). Football and military conflict are not related, so lets give these imaginary tickets to children, teachers, carers and those that are truly worthy of admiration.  OTBC.

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"Did I say it was?"

Why post it in a thread about the military then? The decision making by the government is completely separate to what we''re talking about here.

"''They hate our freedom so they''re building nukes (Iran next)"

I''m not debating the rest of your post, as I''m starting to get the impression that most of it is complete guff. You''re starting to sound like a crazy conspiracy theorist to be honest. Hope you''ve got your tin hat on.

But...if you don''t find the prospect of a country whose leader can be quoted as wanting to wipe other countries off the face of the earth developing nuclear power even slightly worrying, then you must be a little nuts.

Thankfully it looks like the new boss in Iran is a bit more sensible.

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[quote user="Norwich MP"]Has this not dropped off the first page yet? The football related bit has been cleared up so take the rest outside.[/quote]Replying to the post isn''t really going to help that happen is it? [8-)]Oops! [A]

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