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Indy

Watching highlights of us v Munich those years ago, I really want another European adventure!

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I really hope that we go for it this seaosn, I would love a few games in Europe.

 

Bury first up in the Capital cup and hopefully a kind draw through to the final!

 

Anyone else take a lower league finish and cup win, or is it risky knowing how many teams focus on cups and get relegated?

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I''d be more worried about the season after when we are in Europe. I think its just too many games for a thin squad. We''d need even more strength in depth. Will definitely be interesting to see how Swansea get on this year. Think they''ll drop out the domestic cups pretty quickly, probably intentionally (or at least play a reserve team), but still those Thursday nights away in far flung reaches of Europe, then having to play Sunday, its not easy. I think they''ll be around 15th in the league this year, assuming they have a little run in the Europa League.

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We''ve never stayed in the top flight for more than 4 years on the trot right?Europe in our 4th year.... this timeWould it be fate ensuring we went back down again?

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Silverware would be great but I believe our priority has to be the league and securing our survival. Going by how close it was last season and what happened to Wigan I think it would be dangerous to concentrate on a cup win alongside league survival. Yes Wigan are now in Europe but with the crowded Championship game schedule I don''t see them getting too far.

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[quote user="ReadingCanary"]We''ve never stayed in the top flight for more than 4 years on the trot right?Europe in our 4th year.... this timeWould it be fate ensuring we went back down again?[/quote]

 

Wrong.,We have had nine consecutive seasons in the top flight.

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Europa cup is a poisoned chalice.    Its just the thing we don''t need.   Building a secure future in the premiership is more important.  If we stumble in to the Europa Cup through league position or winning a cup, I hope we have the courage and nous to send out  a second team.   Imo you cannot sustain the amount of games you will have to play in a season - and more to the point - the intensity - of those games with your best team.  

I personally hope we avoid the Europa, either by finishing just below it in the league, or just above it - which, yes, I know,would be a champion league position.  After all we''ve never finished in the top six  of the premiership before, have we.....................

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[quote user="ReadingCanary"]We''ve never stayed in the top flight for more than 4 years on the trot right?

Europe in our 4th year.... this time

Would it be fate ensuring we went back down again?
[/quote]

We have had more than two occasions where we have been in the top division for at least 5 years I believe, my memory is going but under Bond we had a long run in the top flight and under Walker / Stringer I remember a long term up here. Might have felt longer and I can''t be asked to search.

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I''m probably in the minority here, but I couldn''t give a damn about the Europa league, it''s simply been a watered down tournament ever since the Champions League was introduced, and the more recent change to a league format in the early stages hasn''t helped it either.The last thing we need is players like RVW and Fer snapping their ankles on some dodgy pitch in deepest Romania, not to mention the strain the extra games put on the players in the process.For me it''s all about league success, followed by the CL (which is pretty impossible for most sides), then the FA cup, with the rest of it being pretty ''meh'' IMHO.

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[quote user="Indy"]

[quote user="ReadingCanary"]We''ve never stayed in the top flight for more than 4 years on the trot right?Europe in our 4th year.... this timeWould it be fate ensuring we went back down again?[/quote]

We have had more than two occasions where we have been in the top division for at least 5 years I believe, my memory is going but under Bond we had a long run in the top flight and under Walker / Stringer I remember a long term up here. Might have felt longer and I can''t be asked to search.

[/quote]I''m only a youngling so my only real experience of us in the top division is since it was called the Premier League !

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]I''m probably in the minority here, but I couldn''t give a damn about the Europa league, it''s simply been a watered down tournament ever since the Champions League was introduced, and the more recent change to a league format in the early stages hasn''t helped it either.

[/quote]

But even with that, it does still give clubs that edge when looking to sign players. Footballers want to play in Europe, we aren''t going to be in a Champions League spot in the foreseeable future, so the only other option is the Europa League.

The next step after securing mid-table for a few seasons is the Europa league. Its progress, and ultimately what we should all want. But not for a couple more seasons until we have the strength in depth to play so many games in a year without it majorly effecting our league position.

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[quote user="lake district canary"]Europa cup is a poisoned chalice.    Its just the thing we don''t need.   Building a secure future in the premiership is more important.  If we stumble in to the Europa Cup through league position or winning a cup, I hope we have the courage and nous to send out  a second team.   Imo you cannot sustain the amount of games you will have to play in a season - and more to the point - the intensity - of those games with your best team.  

I personally hope we avoid the Europa, either by finishing just below it in the league, or just above it - which, yes, I know,would be a champion league position.  After all we''ve never finished in the top six  of the premiership before, have we.....................

[/quote]I really do not understand this attitude at all.Now if this was a Liverpool or Tottenham fan board, I could understand.However, we are Norwich City, we have been in Europe once ever. As much as I am optimistic and believe (And Want us to) we can get into the Europa Cup this season, I don''t think we''ll ever become a side who is regularly playing European football.So for that reason, Id grab this potential opportunity with both hands.Afterall if were not aiming for the best we can achieve and European football, then why bother at all?For me personally, it is my dream to follow Norwich City away in Europe and to see us lift a trophy. If having a good Fulham-eque style Europa Run, ment losing our place in the Premier League, then so be it. Its not the be all and end all. If Im honest some of my most enjoyable times following NCFC in the Championship and League One.Guess that means nothing to you sat at home checking the score on ceefax?

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[quote user="CDMullins"][quote user="lake district canary"]Europa cup is a poisoned chalice.    Its just the thing we don''t need.   Building a secure future in the premiership is more important.  If we stumble in to the Europa Cup through league position or winning a cup, I hope we have the courage and nous to send out  a second team.   Imo you cannot sustain the amount of games you will have to play in a season - and more to the point - the intensity - of those games with your best team.    I personally hope we avoid the Europa, either by finishing just below it in the league, or just above it - which, yes, I know,would be a champion league position.  After all we''ve never finished in the top six  of the premiership before, have we.....................  [/quote]I really do not understand this attitude at all. Now if this was a Liverpool or Tottenham fan board, I could understand.However, we are Norwich City, we have been in Europe once ever. As much as I am optimistic and believe (And Want us to) we can get into the Europa Cup this season, I don''t think we''ll ever become a side who is regularly playing European football.So for that reason, Id grab this potential opportunity with both hands.Afterall if were not aiming for the best we can achieve and European football, then why bother at all?For me personally, it is my dream to follow Norwich City away in Europe and to see us lift a trophy. If having a good Fulham-eque style Europa Run, ment losing our place in the Premier League, then so be it. Its not the be all and end all. If Im honest some of my most enjoyable times following NCFC in the Championship and League One.Guess that means nothing to you sat at home checking the score on ceefax?[/quote]

I want to see us do well and I would like us to get into the top ten this season.   However, if we happen to get a Europa place, it puts enormous pressure on the following season.   The Europa is devalued imo, as already bigger clubs treat it like the fa cup and send their reserves.   We could do the same, but what is the point in that?  Europe to me  is not the be all and end all.   

I shall be at matches this season CDM,  already have my tickets for Everton and Hull, not following on ceefax (which doesn''t exist anymore btw). I just don''t want to see our resources stretched in the coming seasons, beyond what we can manage, for some presumed by some, to be exotic European adventures.   Adventure my backside.   Its a tiddlywinks cup with fancy foreign names, that''s all. 

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I agree with CDM except for the part about relegation being ok.

This thread is rife with "lil ole Norwich" sentiment.

It may be the League Cup version of international football, but it would be a fun, fascinating and unusual-for-us ride. As stated before, it would attract better players we are competing to sign so that would alleviate the concern about it making us relegation fodder.

What''s wrong with that?

.

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I remember the tingle of exitement walking along Riverside to get to see the Vitesse Arnhem game. It felt different, special, as though we had arrived and were not just Norwich City from Norfolk but a proper grown up European team. The opponents felt more exotic, names we hadn''t seen on MOTD every week, a slight chill in the air and that extra feeling of intimacy and frisson one gets from a floodlit game.  I remember the Germans coming the next round with their funny chants, the cameras outside the ground before the match interviewing supporters, the amazing feeling with Walker and Goss on the pitch celebrating, and then the noisy Italians arriving at our very own Carrow Road. I''d love it again as well and if it does ever come back it will be a bloomin'' nice problem for the manager to face.

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]I agree with CDM except for the part about relegation being ok.

This thread is rife with "lil ole Norwich" sentiment.

It may be the League Cup version of international football, but it would be a fun, fascinating and unusual-for-us ride. As stated before, it would attract better players we are competing to sign so that would alleviate the concern about it making us relegation fodder.

What''s wrong with that?

.[/quote]

I think you have misunderstood. I don''t think there''s any fan that wouldn''t want European football but not when it comes at the expense of Premiership survival. It''s not a question of lil ol Norwich mentality it''s a just bring realistic. Just look at Wigan what big signings has European football bought them?

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I''m not 100% sure of this but I don''t think Wigan played any Euro football last season so their relegation was not a result of it, Brightside.

Likewise (and assuming I''m right about last season), it hasn''t attracted foreign league big time players, but it can be argued some of their summer signings found the attraction of a Euro competition just one more reason to sign for them. Several Pinkun posters have pointed out our Grant Holt gets to play in European competition now. There are other teams he could play for close to his home.

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I really do not understand where some fans are coming from. A club of our size and going on history this little adventure will not last forever. There will be a season I am sure where it will all come crashing down on us. Enjoy it whilst it lasts. I love the fact we are spending decent cash on quality and going for it more. Why oh why would a Norwich fan not want to see their team win a cup? then enter europe?To a team like us the europa league would be massive not a mikey mouse competition. Money, money , money thats all they drum into us these days and fans get sucked in. We need to stay up because we need the riches of the premiership.Dont get me wrong I want us to stay in business but I could not give two hoops about the bank balance. but any sane norwich fan knows that this wont last so if we won a cup and played in europe you would be mad not to want it to happen. I hope we take the cup competitions seriously this year. the fact RVW , fer ect have played in the same competition they may well just want to be playing in it again, no?Relegation will happen one day so why not take a trip in europe and cup

win before its too late. or do you want 9 seasons of "staying up"

yawwwwwwn boring!

 

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[quote user="Bryangunnshairline"]I really do not understand where some fans are coming from. A club of our size and going on history this little adventure will not last forever. There will be a season I am sure where it will all come crashing down on us. Enjoy it whilst it lasts. I love the fact we are spending decent cash on quality and going for it more. Why oh why would a Norwich fan not want to see their team win a cup? then enter europe? To a team like us the europa league would be massive not a mikey mouse competition.  Money, money , money thats all they drum into us these days and fans get sucked in. We need to stay up because we need the riches of the premiership. Dont get me wrong I want us to stay in business but I could not give two hoops about the bank balance.   but any sane norwich fan knows that this wont last so if we won a cup and played in europe you would be mad not to want it to happen.  I hope we take the cup competitions seriously this year. the fact RVW , fer ect have played in the same competition they may well just want to be playing in it again, no?  Relegation will happen one day so why not take a trip in europe and cup

win before its too late. or do you want 9 seasons of "staying up"

yawwwwwwn boring! [/quote]

I don''t often disagree with you bghl, but for me the european cups have been devalued beyond what is acceptable.   Too many games in the europa, a poor champions league system,  where if you fail you go into the europa.   Bonkers.   Arnhem, Bayern, Inter - fantastic times, but how many fans can afford the time/money to go to all the away matches in Europe - to watch second string Norwich sides play non-entities of european football.  I know this all sounds a bit cynical, but european cup football is geared to the so called big teams.   Let them have it.   

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[quote user="Houston Canary"]I''m not 100% sure of this but I don''t think Wigan played any Euro football last season so their relegation was not a result of it, Brightside.

Likewise (and assuming I''m right about last season), it hasn''t attracted foreign league big time players, but it can be argued some of their summer signings found the attraction of a Euro competition just one more reason to sign for them. Several Pinkun posters have pointed out our Grant Holt gets to play in European competition now. There are other teams he could play for close to his home.[/quote]

My point is that Wigan have Euro football this season but arguably at the expense of Premiership. They have not attracted any big names who have come to play in the European cup because they are now in the second tier. The argument about Euro Cup football attracting better players can only be applied if Euro football is accompanied by first tier football which for Wigan it is not.

If we get into Europe and achieve survival then brilliant but I just don''t think we should go into Europe if it means by going on a cup run we get relegated.

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[quote user="Brightside"][quote user="Houston Canary"]I''m not 100% sure of this but I don''t think Wigan played any Euro football last season so their relegation was not a result of it, Brightside.

Likewise (and assuming I''m right about last season), it hasn''t attracted foreign league big time players, but it can be argued some of their summer signings found the attraction of a Euro competition just one more reason to sign for them. Several Pinkun posters have pointed out our Grant Holt gets to play in European competition now. There are other teams he could play for close to his home.[/quote]

My point is that Wigan have Euro football this season but arguably at the expense of Premiership. They have not attracted any big names who have come to play in the European cup because they are now in the second tier. The argument about Euro Cup football attracting better players can only be applied if Euro football is accompanied by first tier football which for Wigan it is not.

If we get into Europe and achieve survival then brilliant but I just don''t think we should go into Europe if it means by going on a cup run we get relegated.[/quote]The Wigan example isnt a good one.Wigan had a bye to the quarter finals of the FA Cup, By the time they played Everton they were well in trouble and by the time the FA Cup final came around, they were all but gone.Grant Holt the lure of playing in Europe was massive and theyve managed to hold onto a couple of their better players, players that everyone expected to leave. I expect Wigan to be back next season, Would I sacrifice a year back in the Championship for an FA Cup and a European Adventure.... You bet I would!

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[quote user="CDMullins"][quote user="Brightside"][quote user="Houston Canary"]I''m not 100% sure of this but I don''t think Wigan played any Euro football last season so their relegation was not a result of it, Brightside.

Likewise (and assuming I''m right about last season), it hasn''t attracted foreign league big time players, but it can be argued some of their summer signings found the attraction of a Euro competition just one more reason to sign for them. Several Pinkun posters have pointed out our Grant Holt gets to play in

European competition now. There are other teams he could play for close to his home.[/quote]

My point is that Wigan have Euro football this season but arguably at the expense of Premiership. They have not attracted any big names who have come to play in the European cup because they are now in the second tier. The argument about Euro Cup football attracting better players can only be applied if Euro football is accompanied by first tier football which for Wigan it is not.

If we get into Europe and achieve survival then brilliant but I just don''t think we should go into Europe if it means by going on a cup run we get relegated.[/quote]The Wigan example isnt a good one.Wigan had a bye to the quarter finals of the FA Cup, By the time they played Everton they were well in trouble and by the time the FA Cup final came around, they were all but gone.Grant Holt the lure of playing in Europe was massive and theyve managed to hold onto a couple of their better players, players that everyone expected to leave. I expect Wigan to be back next season, Would I sacrifice a year back in the Championship for an FA Cup and a European Adventure.... You bet I would![/quote]

Perhaps the Wigan example isn''t great but it is a real life example so could happen to us. I don''t think they will get automatically promoted back to the premiership. The busy Championship schedule along with Europe will be very tough. Playoffs at the very best.

If we can get into Europe through a top six position then brilliant I would love it but there''s no way I think we should lose out on Premiership football for a European place.

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[quote user="ReadingCanary"]We''ve never stayed in the top flight for more than 4 years on the trot right?Europe in our 4th year.... this timeWould it be fate ensuring we went back down again?[/quote]
We got promoted in 1986 and relegated in 1995, that''s our longest single spell. 
Between 1972 and 1995 we had just three years out of the division as on three consecutive occasions we went down and came straight back up. 
I''d take 9 consecutive years again, would be nice to get a trophy or a run in Europe to show for it though. 

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Typical pathetic Norwich fans who wouldn''t know ambition if it came up and smacked them in the mouth.Football is about winning things so getting to cup finals and Europe is the Holy Grail, no matter how much people think it has been devalued over the years. If we are using a devalued analogy then top flight football has been devalued too as the sole purpose these days is to survive rather than strive for success.We''ll get relegated again in the next 20 years no doubt and we''ll then get promoted again. Remember how much fun promotion was last time because we were successful, well European football will feel like that.Life''s an adventure and if you always settle for mediocrity then I pity you.

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I''d take 9 years again in a flash, especially if we can compete for trophies like we did then. Of course it''s unlikely we''ll get as close to winning the league as we did but a couple of FA Cups would suffice..!!

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[quote user="The Ghost of Percy Varco"]Typical pathetic Norwich fans who wouldn''t know ambition if it came up and smacked them in the mouth.

Football is about winning things so getting to cup finals and Europe is the Holy Grail, no matter how much people think it has been devalued over the years. If we are using a devalued analogy then top flight football has been devalued too as the sole purpose these days is to survive rather than strive for success.

We''ll get relegated again in the next 20 years no doubt and we''ll then get promoted again. Remember how much fun promotion was last time because we were successful, well European football will feel like that.

Life''s an adventure and if you always settle for mediocrity then I pity you.
[/quote]

 

Go ''n'' boil yer ''ead Percy...

 

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Ghost of Percy Varco"]Typical pathetic Norwich fans who wouldn''t know ambition if it came up and smacked them in the mouth.Football is about winning things so getting to cup finals and Europe is the Holy Grail, no matter how much people think it has been devalued over the years. If we are using a devalued analogy then top flight football has been devalued too as the sole purpose these days is to survive rather than strive for success.We''ll get relegated again in the next 20 years no doubt and we''ll then get promoted again. Remember how much fun promotion was last time because we were successful, well European football will feel like that.Life''s an adventure and if you always settle for mediocrity then I pity you.[/quote]

 

Go ''n'' boil yer ''ead Percy...

 

 

[/quote]

Highly insightful Nigel, well played.

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All those voting for European football will need to be able to produce their ticket stubs from Arnhem, Munich and Milan.[:P]

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[quote user="The Ghost of Percy Varco"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="The Ghost of Percy Varco"]Typical pathetic Norwich fans who wouldn''t know ambition if it came up and smacked them in the mouth.

Football is about winning things so getting to cup finals and Europe is the Holy Grail, no matter how much people think it has been devalued over the years. If we are using a devalued analogy then top flight football has been devalued too as the sole purpose these days is to survive rather than strive for success.

We''ll get relegated again in the next 20 years no doubt and we''ll then get promoted again. Remember how much fun promotion was last time because we were successful, well European football will feel like that.

Life''s an adventure and if you always settle for mediocrity then I pity you.
[/quote]

 

Go ''n'' boil yer ''ead Percy...

 

 

[/quote]


Highly insightful Nigel, well played.
[/quote]

 

Oh.....

 

Are you suddenly interested in the opinions of us typical Norwich fans then?

 

For what it''s worth in the 45 years I''ve been pathetic I''ve wanted us to win every match in every competition we enter. I should think that''s typical of fans throughout the game and at this time of year we are all dreaming of what maybe with only the select few left with their dreams intact after new year!

 

 

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"]All those voting for European football will need to be able to produce their ticket stubs from Arnhem, Munich and Milan.[:P][/quote]

 

Yes... and those who fear a resulting relegation will need their ticket stubs from Yeovil in 2009[:P]

 

 

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