Michael Mancienne?

[Patches OHoolahan 0]

He''s been mentioned before on these boards as a potential target at centre back, and now he''s been excluded from first team training at Hamburg along with a group of other players due to the club''s financial problems, so he should be relatively cheap. Could he be one of the missing pieces of the puzzle? A club from Turkey (can''t remember the name) already had a bid accepted for him but he rejected them as he doesn''t favour a move to the country, but he is likely to be more amenable to a return to the Premier League.

[Gingerpele 0]

I''d like him here, decent defender. Still fairly young too, so competition for Bassong/Turner and long term replacement.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Yes, ideal option if he''s going on the cheap. World Cup year too, and another player who could potentially be vying for a place in the squad. I hope this happens.

[CDMullins 498]

I must confess I''ve not seen anything of him in Germany, but was very impressed with him (Mainly in the U21''s) before he went.

Personally, I wouldnt bother, He has less potential than Bennett and less experience than Turner. The only centre half I''d want is one that would slot straight into the side to play with Bassong. Not one to compete with Turner/Bennett

[GJP 79]

He''s a decent kind of player, handy to have in the squad maybe because he can "do a job" at centreback, fullback or in midfield. But you wouldn''t put him in the team ahead of anyone we''ve already got.

[Juggy 0]

It was me who suggested him a while back, excellent player and should have been given an England shot by now.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="CDMullins"] He has less potential than Bennett and less experience than Turner. [/quote]

Both Bennett and Turner are very similar players and both lack something which Mancienne possesses, which is pace. 

[flying high up in the sky! 1]

Think the player is good just not sure he would get a game.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"]It was me who suggested him a while back, excellent player and should have been given an England shot by now.[/quote]

Who would you put him in the Norwich team ahead of and who would you put him in the England team ahead of?

[Tetteys Jig 851]

He''s had a call up hasn''t he? Dunno if he''s made his debut, but i thought he got called up. I''d say he''d provide ideal backup for Bassong and competition for Turner. Our current problem is that we lack pace should Bassong be injured. Our 4 Centre backs as Bass, Turns, Benno and him would be 4 well complimented centre backs.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"] Our current problem is that we lack pace should Bassong be injured.. [/quote]

We lack pace with Bassong. Without Bassong we lack a very good left footed centreback.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="GJP"]

Who would you put him in the Norwich team ahead of [/quote]

That''s a simplistic way of looking at things, but for arguments sake Leon Barnett was called upon 13 times last season and is no longer at the club. You are only as good as your last game and I don''t think any player comes in as a guaranteed starter, they have to come in and earn their place in the team and then keep their place in the team. 

Both Turner and Bassong had periods out with injury last season, which is why Barnett got football. Ryan Bennett had a strong few months of the season but he was less than convincing for the first half of the season. Turner and Bassong were excellent last season, but that is no guarantee that they will be consistently excellent next season. A squad needs four centre backs and we have three. Even with four all players will get football. 

Personally I''d see Bennett as #2 behind Turner, and Mancienne as #2 behind Bassong. We seriously lack pace at the back with a back two of Turner and Bennett. 

[quote] and who would you put him in the England team ahead of?

[/quote]

In May there was a defensive crisis and they called up Lescott (a reserve player who had played hardly any football) and tried to beg Rio to come out of retirement. I personally thought that this was the perfect time to give somebody like Mancienne again, he was playing regularly for Hamburg in the Bundesliga which we all know is shaping up to become one of the strongest leagues in Europe. Instead he did the predictable thing and picked Lescott and Smalling, two big club reserve players.

Mancienne turned down a Chelsea contract to join Hamburg, to play football regularly and develop, and he would have had more chance of getting and England call up if he''d stuck around at Chelsea and played ten times a season, and I just think that''s wrong.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]He''s had a call up hasn''t he? Dunno if he''s made his debut, but i thought he got called up. I''d say he''d provide ideal backup for Bassong and competition for Turner. Our current problem is that we lack pace should Bassong be injured. Our 4 Centre backs as Bass, Turns, Benno and him would be 4 well complimented centre backs.[/quote]

Exactly. Bennett and Turner very similar, Mancienne is a bit more composed with the ball and has pace, would be the perfect deputy for Bassong. 

Barnett played 13 times last year, a team needs four good centre backs.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Jimmy Smith"]He''s had a call up hasn''t he? Dunno if he''s made his debut, but i thought he got called up. I''d say he''d provide ideal backup for Bassong and competition for Turner. Our current problem is that we lack pace should Bassong be injured. Our 4 Centre backs as Bass, Turns, Benno and him would be 4 well complimented centre backs.[/quote]

He got a call up by Capello in 2008 when he was at Wolves on loan, has been ignored ever since playing in the Bundesliga, didn''t get a cap. 

We need more English players going abroad to play in the stronger European leagues, but they are actively discouraged to do so because the price they pay is being ignored by the national team. That''s short sighted because we don''t have enough English players in our own top tier.

[Tetteys Jig 851]

Bassong was brought in primarily for his mobility. He''s no slouch by any means!

[Militant Canary 0]

Mancienne is a fine defender: strong, fast, assured with the ball at his feet with a good range of passing - perfectly suited to playing the ball out from defense. Perhaps not the tallest and can be a little injury prone, but those are the only criticisms that can be leveled at him.

It is typical of the England set-up that when he moved to Germany he effectively dropped off the face of the earth. He should be praised for this bold step... a step that is not taken enough by British footballers.

Instead of stagnating at Chelsea, he chose to do the gutsy thing and move to Germany, which is arguably the best league in the world. Hamburg is a big team that plays to capacity crowds in a big stadium and he flourished there. Whilst the German footballing culture was a shock to his system initially - he was out injured for half his first season there because his body was not used to the extremely rigourous physical training - he became first-choice and earned a great deal of praise from the Hamburg faithful.

If he''s available, and he''s willing, I would be very happy with his signing for Norwich.

[GJP 79]

[quote user="The New Boy Le Juge"][quote user="GJP"]

Who would you put him in the Norwich team ahead of [/quote]

That''s a simplistic way of looking at things, but for arguments sake Leon Barnett was called upon 13 times last season and is no longer at the club. You are only as good as your last game and I don''t think any player comes in as a guaranteed starter, they have to come in and earn their place in the team and then keep their place in the team. 

Both Turner and Bassong had periods out with injury last season, which is why Barnett got football. Ryan Bennett had a strong few months of the season but he was less than convincing for the first half of the season. Turner and Bassong were excellent last season, but that is no guarantee that they will be consistently excellent next season. A squad needs four centre backs and we have three. Even with four all players will get football. 

Personally I''d see Bennett as #2 behind Turner, and Mancienne as #2 behind Bassong. We seriously lack pace at the back with a back two of Turner and Bennett. 

[quote] and who would you put him in the England team ahead of?

[/quote]

In May there was a defensive crisis and they called up Lescott (a reserve player who had played hardly any football) and tried to beg Rio to come out of retirement. I personally thought that this was the perfect time to give somebody like Mancienne again, he was playing regularly for Hamburg in the Bundesliga which we all know is shaping up to become one of the strongest leagues in Europe. Instead he did the predictable thing and picked Lescott and Smalling, two big club reserve players.

Mancienne turned down a Chelsea contract to join Hamburg, to play football regularly and develop, and he would have had more chance of getting and England call up if he''d stuck around at Chelsea and played ten times a season, and I just think that''s wrong.

[/quote]

So you''re saying Mancienne is an excellent player and should be in the England setup but you''re also saying if he was here you''d see him as backup to Bassong. How good is he if he isn''t good enough to be first choice at Norwich?

 

You also say that he''s been playing regularly at Hamburg but in 2 years he''s made 37 league appearances. So while that is a decent amount of football it doesn''t suggest they''ve viewed him as a key player and had him in the team whenever possible. Especially when you consider that he has now been "frozen out". Again, if he had made such a big impression over there then they''d be looking at keeping him involved and not getting him out the door with Paul Scharner.

 

I''d pick Lescott or Smalling ahead of Mancienne too. I think Smalling has got a better future ahead of him and I think Lescott is a stronger defender and has previously played well for England.

 

 

 

[Patches OHoolahan 0]

I believe that Mancienne would be an improvement on Turner. He''s more mobile, as others have pointed out, and he is excellent at playing the ball out from the back, which is something I feel we have lacked in pre-season at times.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="GJP"] So you''re saying Mancienne is an excellent player and should be in the England setup but you''re also saying if he was here you''d see him as backup to Bassong. How good is he if he isn''t good enough to be first choice at Norwich? [/quote]

No I said that Mancienne should have been given a chance when England had a defensive crisis. I''d rate Bassong as just as good as any of the current England regular centre backs (Dawson, Smalling, Cahill) so I think you are doing more of a disservice to Bassong than you are to Mancienne with that statement. Mancienne is probably already as good as Turner but they are different players. Pikington doesn''t suddenly become a bit part player because Redmond arrives and so I don''t see why you need me to pick one of Turner or Bassong to relegate to second tier to accommodate a player who at 25 is at a great age and still developing. Turner isn''t getting any younger you know, or faster. Your original question was too simplistic..... Who did you see Hooper replacing in the first XI? Van Wolfswinkel? No? Is that because they will both get games? Yes, it is because they will both get games. We didn''t see enough rotation last season, get used to it this year. 

[quote] You also say that he''s been playing regularly at Hamburg but in 2 years he''s made 37 league appearances. So while that is a decent amount of football it doesn''t suggest they''ve viewed him as a key player and had him in the team whenever possible.  [/quote]

Has had a total of ten months out injured over that two years, mainly a knee injury in his first season. When fit he has played. There is your answer, but you could have answered this yourself with little to no real effort and somebody has already mentioned this on this very thread. 

[quote]  Especially when you consider that he has now been "frozen out". [/quote]

They are close to ruin the OP and the numerous articles around the web make it clear that they have taken this action to try and force high earners out. Again, you already knew the answer to this.