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Murphy Twins - too young or ready to play a part

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Given the fact that we had 5 major players out on Saturday a little part of me was disappointed to see there was no place for one of them on the bench. My hope is that at some point this season we give some of our younger players like the Murphy twins and Carlton Morris the chance to see if they have what it takes to make the step up. It''s not like this club is used to having quality youngsters come through season after season, if we hamper their development by not trusting them it would be such a shame. I couldn''t help but notice that Southampton had three 18 year olds in their starting line-up against West Brom (the same age as the Murphy''s) One of whom Luke Shaw didn''t look out of place last season at 17. Many top clubs seem to like the idea of having talented youngsters on their books, but then never give them the necessary opportunities to turn their raw potential into something more solid. Players like Sturridge and Carlos Vela have had to move clubs to be able to finally flourish, whilst countless other promising careers have failed to get off the ground all together. We have potentially top class players, potentially worth many millions of pounds Lets make sure when the time comes the club are ready to let them have their shot.

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Literally can''t see where they''d fit in unless there''s quite a few injuries. Got Benno, Snoddy, Pilks, Redmond and perhaps Olsson fighting for 2 wide positions and Howson, Hoolahan, new signing and potentially Fer (plus Butterfield?!) for the hole.

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The thing is potentially I think they could be better than the lot - I honestly do. It''s tough to tell without them being regularly in a first team scenario, but lets not forget they were two players who looked top class against the best youth chelsea could find around the world.

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I suspect that they are seen as a little immature. They are quick, and they have good shots, but while they do increasingly make passes they are still inclined to try to dribble their way into the goal mouth.  There is an exciting rawness about them and, possibly because the club wishes them to develop, they are unlikely to be exposed to the full sometimes brutal treatment of senior football where they could suffer a physical mauling from slow defenders.

 

If we lacked wingers, there could perhaps be a case for selecting them for appropriate games, but we now have four excellent wingers. It could be that we have offers for Pilks, Benno or Snoddy and one of the big boys could mouth Redmond away. At that point the Murphy boys could become a regular member of the team, but for the moment they are being groomed and honing their skills.

 

They have often been the cause of success for our junior teams, in the Youth Cup for instance, but there is an enormous gulf between Youth football however skilful and adult professional football. The problem will be to find opportunities for them . I, for one, would not like to see them sent on a years loan to play among the clogggers of Divisions 1 or 2.

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Not sure if you can read anything into it, but when the squad numbers were announced, none of the young lads were given numbers.

 

They need games to progress, if they don''t go out on loan then I guess that means they might figure at some stage even if it''s just in the cups.

 

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You''ve just got to compare them to Redmond. He obviously plays in similar positions to the Murphy twins.

 

He''s a year older but last season he was a regular for Birmingham in the Championship. Can''t see that the Murphys would be ready to play in the Championship yet.

 

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If you''re good enough, you''re old enough.

I don''t think they''re good enough yet, but it''s not an issue with age.

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The reality is that some players are ready for first team action as a teenager and others need that extra couple of years to mature. from what I have seen the Murphys are in the second category, while Morris is likely to be in the former.

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I understand what people are saying, but my point is that we will never really know if they are good enough unless we give them a chance. At the moment it is impossible for anyone to actually gauge how good they are or how good they could become. Young players can come on leaps and bounds in a very quick space of time, but keep treating them like youth team players and they will remain so - Yes they seem to dribble too often, but in youth football that works for them - give them half a match in the premier league and they will realise if they don''t already that they will have to adapt their game slightly. You cannot wait for a youth player to become a finished article before you include them - it is never going to happen. Redmond is only as good as he is because he has developed by playing first team football. We may have another couple of Redmonds on our hands, but we may never know. We had no wingers and a distinct lack of flair on the bench against Everton. If that is something we want more of when trying to beat Hull - i would consider one of them for the bench.

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The Bury COC game would be great to see 1 or 2 of the youngsters start. Need the experience on the bench though in case things go pear shaped!

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Based on their performance against Cambridge,  they aren''t even close. They need at least 1 more year before we could start thinking about playing them in the Premier League.   Maybe putting them on the bench against Bury wouldn''t be a bad idea

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McNally hinted that one thing he would like to see this season is our promising youngsters given a chance in the Cups rather than fringe players who are near the exit door.

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Going to watch the U21s against Villa tonight and am hoping to see them both in the line-up with possibly Hooper or Bassong joining them.

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I would prefer to see them find a 6mth loan in League 1 to gain league exposure against men playing all out for their next contract. If they excel then start thinking about Premiership exposure. Judging performances at youth and friendlies is misleading because they are either playing equally immature players or playing in an uncompetitive environment.It''s not the only way forward but many England regulars have had successful loans that led to first team football. A Cole (palace), Lampard (Bournemouth?), Beckham (Preston), Terry (Forest?) etc.

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Spot on Dave, I was just going to post that. People keep talking about the Murphy twins as if they were the same,, their looks certainly are but their abilities as footballers certainly are not!

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One or both are certainly potential first team squad members in the future, but I imagine the club would want them given some experience out on loan before they were thrown into the Premier League deep end. League 1 or 2 to start with perhaps, see how they get on, then assess whether to maybe loan them to a Championship side.18 is very young to be playing in the Premier League, and you need to be an exceptional talent to be able to do so effectively in my opinion. Nathan Redmond is still only a teenager, and I believe he falls into that category. 19 years old but already has the experience of two full Championship seasons, and is also one of the very few players in our squad to have played in Europe as well. That all equals a talented teenager who is ready for top flight action. The Murphy''s are not. Yet.

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I really dont want these lads to be sent on loan to the Championship or worse League One.But I really would like to see them used in Cup matches and from the bench

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[quote user="CDMullins"]I really dont want these lads to be sent on loan to the Championship or worse League One.But I really would like to see them used in Cup matches and from the bench[/quote]
Why? I think that is precisely where they should be sent. Preferably separately. Almost every member of the England squad has been bloodied out on loan before being given a chance in this division. 
Joe Hart (Tranmere)
Ben Foster (Numerous clubs including Tiverton!)
John Ruddy (Numerous clubs)
Ashley Cole (Crystal Palace)
Glen Johnson (Millwall)
Gary Cahill (Burnley)
The list is pretty much endless but even people like Beckham and Lampard had their stint toughening up in men''s football getting kicked for a few months. Occasionally you get a Rooney or a Gerrard, but not very often. 
Sending them to some skint tinpot club with a smelly dressing room can give young players a wake up call, especially when they realise how many talented players people like Dagenham & Redbridge have on their books who drive to training in a Peugot 306 rather than a convertible Mercedes Benz.  
It''s called character building and keeping their feet on the ground.

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For every sucsessful loanee that progresses, countless failLook at all the players we have loaned out over the passed few years and non of them have come back and made an impression in the first team.Sending them to some tinpot outfit playing on cow patches could ruin themIm confident our facitiles and development setup offers the twins much more than getting kicked up in the air at Accrington

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Remember they are twins probably very close to each other if loaned may need to be same club if split up could be detrimental. One or both should be in line up for Bury.

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"Im confident our facitiles and development setup offers the twins much more than getting kicked up in the air at Accrington"

CD. Our facilities and development set up will have got them to where they are now, not sure sure what it offers them in the future? They need to play competitive football and that ain''t going to happen here other than maybe the odd appearance in a cup game.

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The long absence of Benno may make a difference. We have lost one of our two quick wingers who could get beyond defenders and supply RvW and others. Depending how quickly Pilks and Snoddy recover, and how well, CH may consider calling on one of the Murphy boys.

It does mean that Benno''s absence at least until January could mean that there is another gap in the 25 squad list which could be filled with a loan or a signing. The Murphy twins do not count towards the 25, so they could be "added". It could be a considerable spur to them.

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I definitely think Josh should be given a bench slot for Saturday. Look at Southampton – they regularly blood youngsters in the first team at an early age, and it reaps great benefits. We have an FA Youth Cup-winning academy team, so these players should theoretically be among the best in the country at their age group. Look at Walcott, Bale, Oxlade-Chamberlain and more recently Luke Shaw and James Ward-Prowse – through being given early exposure to first-team football it can aid their development greatly and turn them very quickly from boys into men. If they don''t cut the mustard, there''s no problem in then sending them out on loan to aid their progress, or even putting them back in the development squad. That taste of first-team football will surely make them even more hungry to get back there? Giving Morris some game time in the cup competitions could surely reap greater rewards than giving Becchio 90 minutes?

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Its not about the number its about them physically IMO. Maturity comes with games, so whilst they may not be mature enough mentally at present, how will they ever get there without games. But physicality, that has to be there in the first place. They both still look like boys, so they probably still need to be playing against boys. By complarison, Morris is built like a man so suspect is ready for mens football.

What is the point of having an acadamy if we are not prepared to let any of its products develop? Think a move to lower league football would be a disaster for the Murphys, think they would genuinely benefit from the odd minute here and there in the last few minutes around the first team and the cups, theyd just get hacked to pieced in the lower leagues. Morris? Sure he could do well at a lower league club, but do we want to develop him into another Grant Holt (all elbows and presence) or do we want him to develop into a more technical player? if so, sending him to the lower leagues might not be so great for his development

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[quote user="The Great Mass Debater"]

Its not about the number its about them physically IMO. Maturity comes with games, so whilst they may not be mature enough mentally at present, how will they ever get there without games. But physicality, that has to be there in the first place. They both still look like boys, so they probably still need to be playing against boys. By complarison, Morris is built like a man so suspect is ready for mens football.

What is the point of having an acadamy if we are not prepared to let any of its products develop? Think a move to lower league football would be a disaster for the Murphys, think they would genuinely benefit from the odd minute here and there in the last few minutes around the first team and the cups, theyd just get hacked to pieced in the lower leagues. Morris? Sure he could do well at a lower league club, but do we want to develop him into another Grant Holt (all elbows and presence) or do we want him to develop into a more technical player? if so, sending him to the lower leagues might not be so great for his development

[/quote]Agree with pretty much all of that, especially the point about Morris. However, I''m not sure that physical maturity is as important as people make out; it''s more to do with the psychology – whether they''re confident enough to express themselves, to take some heavy treatment and bounce back up and get on with it. Obviously you can''t overuse players that young – Raheem Sterling was a good case in point last year. Clearly a great talent, Rodgers gave him an opportunity and he seized it with both hands. He''s slight of build but was very strong psychologically – believed he was good enough to make an impact in the Prem, and so he was. It was only when he was overused that his physical limitations as a youngster inhibited his progress – Rodgers noticed this and took him out of the first team as he was showing signs of ''burnout''. With Benno out for a few months, why not take a punt on Josh Murphy?

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--- CDMullins qrote: For every sucsessful loanee that progresses, countless fail. Look at all the players we have loaned out over the passed few years and non of them have come back and made an impression in the first team.Sending them to some tinpot outfit playing on cow patches could ruin them

If we are being honest, I can''t remember a decent youth player being at the club for a good while. Perhaps Chris Martin, and he went off the boil while at the club. Before him maybe Robert Green who actually made it.

In the end, some loanees make it while others fail, because some players have the right attributes and attitude and others do not.

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To add to the list of English players loaned out - Defoe.

I think it is good for younger players to be loaned out so long as it is to a decent club.

They need to play competitive first team football to develop. Playing in a lower division like league 1 may give them the opportunity for regular first team football, but it would also mature them and give them confidence.

At CJF. Shackell was a player that came through after Green. Then you have the likes of Smith and Adeyemi.

They might not be the best players in the world and playing regular premiership football, but just how many English youngsters are doing that now?

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The standard is so high, Adeyemi was head and shoulders above the other lads in his age group,I''m pleased he is playing regular football now because that does help young players not only develop their game but grow in confidence by playing at a level that''s appropriate for their ability.

That''s the next stage after Accademy footy. It''s then up to them to see how hard they are prepared to work at their game.

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