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Redders Right Foot

Who makes way for Fer?

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its good that hughton has said that we''ve got the players to play the lone striker as well as the two together in interviews. Personally am well excited

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A lot of crap spouted on here about Hoolahan. I am genuinely shocked by some opinions of him. Wes didn''t have a good game yesterday. The problem is we fail to hold the ball long enough to bring wes into effect. Bring a centre midfielder in there who can actually control and pass a ball and then watch wes flourish. BJ and Howson should never start together again. It simply does not work.

I''d like to see wes in front of Fer and tettey. BJ is far too limited, tettey offers more. Fer is the only player who looks like he can control and pass a ball so he must start centre mid as opposed to just off the striker as a few have suggested. So that leaves wes and howson competing for the role off the striker.

Fer hopefully is the midfielder we desperately lack. However I still fill we''re a ball playing midfielder short. I think Scott Parker could have been that player.

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[quote user="lincoln canary"]A lot of crap spouted on here about Hoolahan. I am genuinely shocked by some opinions of him. Wes didn''t have a good game yesterday. The problem is we fail to hold the ball long enough to bring wes into effect. Bring a centre midfielder in there who can actually control and pass a ball and then watch wes flourish. BJ and Howson should never start together again. It simply does not work.

I''d like to see wes in front of Fer and tettey. BJ is far too limited, tettey offers more. Fer is the only player who looks like he can control and pass a ball so he must start centre mid as opposed to just off the striker as a few have suggested. So that leaves wes and howson competing for the role off the striker.

Fer hopefully is the midfielder we desperately lack. However I still fill we''re a ball playing midfielder short. I think Scott Parker could have been that player.[/quote]For me the main issue is that Wes isn''t direct enough.Perhaps if he spun round a bit more, trying to get the ball on his favoured foot, he could make the defenders dizzy, and they would just fall over.

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[quote user="Grant Holts 3 year contract"]Thought Bradley Johnson had a great game yesterday.
[/quote]

I''ve seen Bradley have better games for Norwich. Much better.

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Johnson was his usual. A busy, gritty midfielder who does an excellent defensive job but gives the ball away far too often through his poor passing.

Howson was the same player we saw for the majority of last season. Played as a defensive midfielder when he clearly is not one, struggling to get involved, and misplacing passes (10 of 27 failed to find a teammate).

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[quote user="Citizen Journalist Foghorn"]Johnson was his usual. A busy, gritty midfielder who does an excellent defensive job but gives the ball away far too often through his poor passing.

Howson was the same player we saw for the majority of last season. Played as a defensive midfielder when he clearly is not one, struggling to get involved, and misplacing passes (10 of 27 failed to find a teammate).[/quote]

I don''t get it. BJ "does an excellent defensive job" but then you contradict yourself by admitting his passing is poor and gives the ball away. That isn''t great defensive play is it? Constantly recycling Possesion back to the opposition to launch more attacks.

If we can''t hold onto the ball we''re in big trouble. It was our downfall last year. Hughton has to learn that Howson and BJ can never start together in those positions again.

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We seem to go round in circles on this one.   BJ,Wes and Howson are not a strong enough combination.   Fer, Tettey and Howson would be my three.   Wes and BJ for me will be more bit part players - still important, but not regulars.   I have the feeling though, that whoever plays alongside Fer will look better - he will give a better outlet and boost the confidence in that area. 

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-- lincoln canary said: BJ "does an excellent defensive job" but then you contradict yourself by admitting his passing is poor and gives the ball away. That isn''t great defensive play is it?

If you ask me, I would like to see Tettey and Fer given a chance in the two central midfield slots. In BJ''s favour, he does do the other parts of the defensive game very well. He gets involved, wins a lot of header, tackles, makes interceptions and generally gets in the other teams faces.

Howson has taken a giant step back to the poor showings of last season. I don''t know whether this is due to a lack of ability and consistency or the role he is being asked to play in the side, but it is worrying indeed.

I agree with your assertion that Howson and BJ do not make a decent midfield pairing.

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[quote user="Vanwink"]Foxy was on the bench, is he coming back into favour?[/quote]   Only there as no real options IMO - everyone else injured or suspended.

 

 

Ditto butterfield

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Your right Zipper, if you look at the squad, there was nobody else left, apart from having 2 keepers on the bench. But what about a Murphy?

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If were not going to play Howson in the more prominent role then there''s no point playing him at all.

In that deeper role Fox could do exactly the same and have a better range of passes.

Was very impressed with Tettey when he came on. But BJ should still keep his place for me, allowing Fer to drive forward and link up with Howson.

You all know I''m not a fan of Wes''s and its time for him to go. Same old faults with him, lack of pace, directness, hanging onto the ball too long, too light weight and one footed, although his work rate and the defensive side of his game has improved massively.

A 19 year old Nathan Redmond making his Premier League debut totally outshone him.

We have outgrown Wes Hoolahan

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I seem to agree with many posters - Fer will mean the replacement of one of Howson, Johnson or Tettey. My guess is that we may find Howson replacing Wes, as an attacking midfielder, and that the very consistent Johnson will partner Fer, perhaps to be replaced later by Tettey.

 

CH will not want to weaken the defence, but fortunately Fer has the motor to get forward and back quickly. I think that CH will thus go for the defensive presence of Johnson holding back, leaving Howson, one of our quickest players off the mark and with a good shot, to partner RvW.

 

I do not expect to see two strikers deployed from the start, even if Hooper has recovered. I think that away from home we are more likely to see only one striker.

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The alternate reality, which is the Pink''un message board, where a player can complete only just over 60% of passes and can be said to have had a good game and warrants playing as an attacking midfielder! 

 

I''ve heard it all now!

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[quote user="iron_stan"]yeh hoolahan out for me as well


nice luxury to have on the bench but he gives the ball away too much
[/quote]

 

In your opinion, as I can''t find any stats to back that up from the last game.

 

Stats surely say Howson gives the ball away more?? Yet most seem to be advocating him.

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Probably worth having a look at the Holtamania blog for some decent analysis.

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Wes is supposed to be the attacking creator of the team. For me he plays too sideways, meaning the wide players are the ones to supply the striker. Howson is more forward thinking and is more likely to score himself. But he must be played as AM.

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JOhnson lost possession 17 times,  Howson 13,  Wes 9.   Even allowing for less pitch time he "lost" possession less frequently than BJ or Howson. 

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And to complete the picture Wes made just one less tackle in the game than both BJ and Howson and the same number of interceptions.

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[quote user="star_manic"]Wes is supposed to be the attacking creator of the team. For me he plays too sideways, meaning the wide players are the ones to supply the striker. Howson is more forward thinking and is more likely to score himself. But he must be played as AM.[/quote]

His duty in current tactic is get the ball between lines and give wide players time to get in positions and supply them. Cant really find out how the hell he would alone with RvW make lots of situations. Look for example that pass he gives for RvW''s first heading chance that is crossed by Bennett I think. No-one else makes those runs and passes than Hoolahan. Mayby Pilks when he has a good day.

Also in counters his job is make that space by getting front of one or two players with his dribbling. Yet again we dont have too many players that can almost certain get past of players like Fellaini like Hoolahan did several times in the game.

And this was him having a average day in the office.

Like zipper already stated rest of middlefield were worse and they shouldnt give up more balls than attacking middlefielder as they are in more comfortabe zone with more options.

Only big fault in Hoolahan is that he dont score enough, but at the end neither does Özil for Real Madrid standards, but thats why they had incutting wingers previous season.

We need in my opinion option for him as his style doesnt always work and we could use sometimes more threat from distance, but stop slacking him fulfilling his role when players around him are not doing what asked.

He keeps himself playable and he gives good game advancing passes near box and loses ball there less than our other centre midfielders. You really cant ask him more than passing for good crossing situations for wide players, if RvW is holded by two players, he isnt confident enough to shoot and players behind him wont make runs forward.

Great link up player and playmaker, not so great shadow striker, but first is his role and we are looking player for that second role at least if you believe what tabloids are writing.

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I''ll say it again Wes or Snoddy we need a goal threat in open play and neither are currently it

I have been Howsons biggest critic in the past (waste of a shirt was what I think I said) but he is offering more than Wes.

I would ideally like us to sign a goal scoring number 10, or play Hooper there (but as I don''t think this was done once in preseason I doubt it will happen) Fer may be the answer and away from home I can certainly see him playing here in Mr (don''t lose at any cost) Hughtons formation.

Who is going to score the goals that win us games this year ? and if your only answer in open play is RVW or Hooper do you not think opposing managers will know that too.

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In my opinion goal scorers should be RvW, Pilks and Fer in open play. While delivery is handled mainly trough Hoolahan, Snoddy and fullbacks. While third of the midfielders will stay in holding role.

Ofc if we sign Elmander or Quags/Toivonen change their mind they can give us more goal threat in 10spot too, but with current state of squad roster this would be my answer.

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Hull showed against Chelsea that they are very capable of maintaining possession in midfield and with Huddlestone and Livermore have some solid midfielders. Going with 2 strikers would just mean Norwich have about 40% of the ball and will invite pressure onto themselves - it''s Hull''s first home Premier League game (for a while) and the stadium will be loud, the best thing Norwich can do is go with Johnson (possibly Tettey), Fer and Howson and keep the ball and frustrate the home crowd and team. The more Norwich frustrate them, the more likely they will start making mistakes and Norwich can hit them on the counter.

 

I highly doubt Norwich will have more than 50% possession, as they barely ever had in the Prem, even under Lambert, and if you don''t have much possession it is incredibly stupid to play two strikers, who will spend most of the game isolated and waiting for the ball. I suspect Hughton will go with Fer ahead of Howson and Johnson, which wouldn''t be my choice but so be it.

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[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]And to complete the picture Wes made just one less tackle in the game than both BJ and Howson and the same number of interceptions.[/quote]

Doesn''t really complete the picture though, does it?

 

Stats are useful to an extent but there is more to a game of football than that.

 

The picture is a lot bigger than the stats.

 

If stats were everything then you''d never need to watch a player before you sign them. You''d just have a look at whoscored.com or similar and go by that.

 

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[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]

Hull showed against Chelsea that they are very capable of maintaining possession in midfield and with Huddlestone and Livermore have some solid midfielders. Going with 2 strikers would just mean Norwich have about 40% of the ball and will invite pressure onto themselves - it''s Hull''s first home Premier League game (for a while) and the stadium will be loud, the best thing Norwich can do is go with Johnson (possibly Tettey), Fer and Howson and keep the ball and frustrate the home crowd and team. The more Norwich frustrate them, the more likely they will start making mistakes and Norwich can hit them on the counter.

 

I highly doubt Norwich will have more than 50% possession, as they barely ever had in the Prem, even under Lambert, and if you don''t have much possession it is incredibly stupid to play two strikers, who will spend most of the game isolated and waiting for the ball. I suspect Hughton will go with Fer ahead of Howson and Johnson, which wouldn''t be my choice but so be it.

[/quote]Thanks Beth. I have been waiting for somebody to point this out. Hull WILL line up with three in the middle and it is near suicidal to play a team with (classy) ball players like Koren, Huddleston and Livermore with only two in the centre. Not to mention, that when they have possession, El Mohammedy and Brady/Figurola are likely to join to make it at least a 4 man midfield. I would expect Hughton to set us up to frustrate Hull in the middle of the pitch and force them out wide. Hopefully that will mean their wing forwards will drop back and leave Graham isolated. I suspect we will play on the counter and look to play behind their fullbacks (wingbacks).

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[quote user="GJP"]

[quote user="ZippersLeftFoot"]And to complete the picture Wes made just one less tackle in the game than both BJ and Howson and the same number of interceptions.[/quote]

Doesn''t really complete the picture though, does it?

 

Stats are useful to an extent but there is more to a game of football than that.

 

The picture is a lot bigger than the stats.

 

If stats were everything then you''d never need to watch a player before you sign them. You''d just have a look at whoscored.com or similar and go by that.

 

[/quote]

You would surprise how much statistic is used when signing a player. For example for me in non-professional level when I was offered contract they had all the charts of my passing routes and movement etc. with smart vests on me in few training matches and never had seen me play out of youth national camp. ( so all they knew about me was stats and few random training sessions ) In professional level scouting is ofc a quite much better and they go to see few competive games before signing, but at the end scouting is quite much looking heat maps etc in modern systems. Scouts are sent these days to learn in american football and baseball scouts as they have quite much completely scout system that is based on stats and numbers. We in big league have a bit more luxyry as we can sign proven players that are not only profilic in one area, but for example teams like Celtic, portuguese teams and eastern europe teams have to sign players a bit "blind" and out of radar and their system is quite much based american systems. There was a great article about it in kicker few years back. (German football magazine) Have to see if I can find it.

And really if you take anti-Hoolahan classes off your eyes and start looking what he does on the field he truly does lot of work effort for defending side and tries to keep passing routes cut off and tackle when ever he gets near the ball. He also doesnt mind to run fast down to defend our own box if we are out of formation. So I''m not at all surprised he get good statistics on defensive area too.

Stats are not everything, but for me those stats just proves what I saw saturday and which was that our holding players had a bad day and Hoolahan had to play too much out of real position to be effective as he can be and we lost the battle in middlefield and you really cant prove anything else as stats almost every area show that Howson was very poor and other two were average. I would say that Johnson was poor too, but if you take count of his role and his passing ratings before Everton match, he had average day in his standards. God damn if he could pass the ball like Fox...

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