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jimbo

Debate. Green and Francis are replaceable, Ashton is not..........

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I personally feel that the club must do everything in its power to hold onto Dean Ashton. Let Green and Francis go if they want to, as they imo are replaceable. You could get a decent keeper in to replace Green (such as Stuart Taylor who is available on a free from Arsenal and who is a very good keeper from what i have seen of him) and Francis could be replaced by a player such as Reo Coker or Sidwell.

Ashton for me however is irreplaceable. If we sold him for lets say £6 million, where would we get another striker of his quality from who would play in the Championship? You could get in a guy who will score goals but how many tall strikers are there around in the target man mould who also have skill on the ball? If we sell Ashton we may struggle to get back up to the Premiership which would mean that the club would lose out on millions.

Ok, lets be positive now and say that if we did sell Ashton we still won promotion back to the Premiership. We then have the dilema during next summer on where to find a striker who is going to get us 15 odd goals in a season at the level. All clubs are looking for these players and some like Charlton have never found one. Ashtons record of 7 goals in 16 premiership games indicates that he would get into double figures if given a whole season in the Premiership. If you have a striker on board that can get you alot of goals in the premiership then you stand a good chance of staying up provided other areas of the team are adequate. We have in Dean Ashton not only the man who can get us the goals to back to the Premiership, but if and when we get there the goals to keep us there. We must do everything in our power to hold onto him for at  least another 2 seasons. To sell him either now, or next summer if we are promoted is potencial suicide in terms of the clubs long held plans and ambition to become an establised Premier league club.

Your thoughts please.

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Your thread title isn''t a debate Jimbo, it''s a fact.  It would be impossible to replace Ashton.  We might get £7M for him.  But who could we get to replace him if we''re not in the Prem?  Players like Bellamy and Keane are rumoured to be going for £5-6M but they would never come here. 

There isn''t a single player better than Ashton who we could attract.  We MUST keep Deano.  To do that, we need to perform.  If he thinks we''re a serious club, going somewhere, the next Charlton etc, he''ll stay.  If we cock up next year, he won''t.

IMO we already have Greeno''s replacement at the club.  As for Damo, we could replace him with a few million quid

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What makes you so sure? He has''nt come out and said his staying has he? Which says to me that if the right club comes in with a decent enough offer he might go.

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He did say a few weeks ago that he was amazed that people were linking him with a move as he''d only just got here and was enjoying his football. The way I see it I don''t think that the club would even consider offers of less than 8 million and as well as Deano has done it''s only been over 16 games. I don''t think there will be to many clubs willing to gamble such a large sum based on his performance over such a short period. Probably more to the point theres not too many clubs with that sort of money to risk on 1 player. The newly promoted clubs are a possibility but Sunderland aren''t in a position to afford him and neither are any of the 2 play off finalists.Wigan are probably the only ones who could afford such a sum and I would be very surprised if he wanted to go there.

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1 - Yes he has

2 - We don''t need to sell him

3 - He didn''t need to join us, it was his choice knowing there was a good chance we''d be relegated.

4 - There isn''t a premiership club who would bid the kind of money that''d take us to sell. Just because he''s scored some in the Prem doesn''t make him an £8M+ player yet. Just look at Jonathan Stead.

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Before we write Greeno off as replaceable it''s worth remembering some of his match winning saves in our championship season. The one against Stoke at the end of March particularly sticks in my memory as he saved a point blank header and kicked the rebound away with his feet as he was falling.

Without that save we would have drawn the match and the end of season run in could have been different.

We would also need a goal-scoring midfielder to replace Francis, which may not be easy to come by in the Championship.

Having said all that I agree that Deano cannot be replaced.

 

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I''d rather replace Francis with thin air than have him stay at this club.

Green is a good keeper but we have three capable replacements in reserve- I would be sorry to see him go but it wouldn''t be a disaster.

What would be is if Ashton goes. Until he runs out in early August the speculation will continue. I think it''s 50/50 that he will be here.

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[quote]What makes you so sure? He has''nt come out and said his staying has he? Which says to me that if the right club comes in with a decent enough offer he might go.[/quote]

ummmmmmmm yes i don''t like the fact that ashton has not said anything since our relegation .

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DDiM: which of our three keepers do you think should be Greeno''s replacement then? I think Ward would be ok for a season in the Championship but not Premiership quality, Gallacher I don''t rate particularly highly, and Lewis is about 6-12 months away from being ready (IMO) I remember Greeno coming in for Marshall at quite an early age, but if my memory serves me correctly, he was a bit older than Lewis is now.

Of the three, I''d imagine that you, like I, think Ward for a season and then Lewis to take over..? 

Personally, I think the idea of Stuart Taylor is a good one (with Gallacher being either sold or released) with Ward as back-up and Lewis continuing to learn his trade. Then again, with the transfer window now including Championship and Football League clubs, would Worthy perhaps go with four keepers to safeguard the Club over the course of the season?

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At the end of the day, it would only be worth selling for a stupid fee, to say Chelsea for 15 million. The rewards of getting to the premiership outweigh the price tag of ashton

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What is needed to be done to keep Ashton has already been done. If he leaves it is because something was written into his contract in January (that might have been one of the reasons he joined us over Palace).

That might be that bids over a certain amount would be have to be accepted. I doubt it is relegation, as that possibilty would have discussed in January. I don''t think Crewe would have signed anything that would have threatened their future payments neither would we have taken on somebody who could leave at his wish.

As to Green and Francis I must agree that neither would be such a loss as Ashton. Both reserve keepers should be up to it otherwise why did we sign them we we were going into the premiership ? Long term we appear to have a cracking youngster in Lewis coming on as well.Hopefully with the long term contract he signed Green should fetch a fair bit.

The Francis question has been done to death, sadly not by him on the pitch though. Anything over around £750,000 will be a bonus and I''d rather see his wages used on a short term signing of a senior ex premiership player to stabilise things in the middle to see us back up again.

Otherwise who knows. Maybe Green isn''t so well thought of as he thinks and Francis may be as badly thought of as we think - so no move for either of them.

As to Ashton he may fancy a season banging them in regularly rather than sitting on the subs bench playing second fiddle to some ''foreign johnny'' on a lucrative contract.

Whatever it is, if next season is half as exiting as the last two seasons then I''m going need the next couple of months to grow my nails.

August here we come.

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[quote]Your thread title isn''t a debate Jimbo, it''s a fact. It would be impossible to replace Ashton. We might get £7M for him. But who could we get to replace him if we''re not in the Prem? Players like ...[/quote]

SEVEN MILLION?! Are you joking me!?

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[quote]What makes you so sure? He has''nt come out and said his staying has he? Which says to me that if the right club comes in with a decent enough offer he might go.[/quote]

Actually...

---

Dean Ashton has rejected speculation linking him with a move away from Norwich City if the East Anglian outfit are relegated.

The former Crewe Alexandra striker has adapted superbly to life in The Premiership and bagged his fourth goal in three games with the late winner against Newcastle United.

With The Canaries scrapping for their lives, Ashton is firmly focused on survival and has not even contemplated a switch to another club.

"I don''t really think about it," he told Sky Sports News. "You know, I only came here in January and I''m still trying to settle in.

"So to think about moving on, I just can''t contemplate that.

"I''m just enjoying myself here and trying to improve, and things will sort themselves out."

Arsenal are one of the clubs reportedly monitoring the England Under-21 international, who has been worth every penny of the £3 million fee splashed out by Nigel Worthington in January.

---

So yeah he has rejected a move. For now.

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This mornings EDP carries the story of Rangers reported interest. And quotes £4M. Thats Bulls##t. With add ons and sell on clause, we would make a loss at £4M. Treble that figure and you mmight be talking, otherwise #### off. Ashton=automatic promotion. Business suicide to give that away for nothing.

(Moderator''s note - read the story on Pinkun.com)

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I dont think Ashton should go for any amount of money.  If you sell him, who do you replace him with?

As Charlies Dad has said Ashton = automatic promotion.  If thats what Norwich City & the Board want DO NOT SELL ASHTON!

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[quote]DDiM: which of our three keepers do you think should be Greeno''s replacement then? I think Ward would be ok for a season in the Championship but not Premiership quality, Gallacher I don''t rate particu...[/quote]

Anderz, I''d like to see Gallagher given a go.  We haven''t seen the guy play properly yet.  When he came, he was supposed to be the next big thing.  A real coup for Norwich signing a goalkeeper with such potentially, everyone was so shocked he was coming here to warm the bench etc etc.  I think he can do a job for us.  Stuart Taylor is a great shout though. Fantastic keeper who must be looking to leave Arsenal soon.

Songwriter, why are you do shocked at £7M valuation of Deano.  Too much or too little?  If too much (which I suspect), well Robson has put a £10M price on Gera''s head, Jordan''s said that Johnson isn''t for sail.  Deano has more potential than both.  We have in our possession the best young striker in English football, after Wayne Rooney.  That is no exageration in my mind.  I don''t want to lose him, certainly not for a pathetic sum like £4M

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Ashton is the player I would least like to see leave.If he goes it would have to be for silly money.

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[quote]Anderz, I''d like to see Gallagher given a go. We haven''t seen the guy play properly yet. When he came, he was supposed to be the next big thing. A real coup for Norwich signing a goalkeeper with su...[/quote]

No man!Wayyy too little. £40-50 Million!

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let''s just forget about letting are best players go for trifling transfer fees, shall we? if he must go, then we have to demand the biggest fee that is realistic. for dean ashton, 10 million pounds would not be at all unreasonable. i would rather have the player than the cash, though. i dont think he''s going anywhere just yet as he seems happy enough here. somebody who knows more about these technicalities than i do, suggested that he couldnt move on until the next january transfer window even if a club came in for him.

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All three players are replaceable.  The question is at what stage does the transfer fee outgrow the value of having that player at the club?  To answer that you need to know what the clubs ambition is over the next couple of seasons - I am quite confident that will be to establish ourselves as a prem team longer term and get promoted short term.

If we complete our short term goal this season then selling Ashton and Green now means we will have to invest in a prem quality goalie and centre forward come next summer - we do NOT have those players in our squad at the moment.  As a prem team any signings in these positions will attract a premium that it seems sensible to avoid this premium by either not selling now or ensuring the price reflects that premium.  As such any price needs to suit the club longer term and would be higher than we would accept if our longer term goal to to get re-promoted within 5 years, when the cash now would be more attractive.

Do we have players in our squad who can do a good job in the champs this season?  I am sure Ward, gallacher, Sven, Leon and Hux would all perform admirably well and put us in the frame for a promotion shot.   As such selling all three of damo green and ashton may be more beneficial to the club if the transfer fees are reinvested in the midfield and defence.  However major squad upheaval is NOT the way to have a good season as such my feeling is that by keeping all three will mean we have a better chance of being in the promotion hunt than selling them

My view is that if at all possible we should be looking to hold onto Green & Deano as they will cost more to replace if we get promoted next season.  the down side to thi is a reduced transfer fee next summer but that is a risk worth taking in my view.  Despite the current negative view I would also like to retain Damo as he does score goals and that is a valuable commodity from central midfield.  however £2.5m + for him would be too much to turn down and would mean we can buy a new midfield fit for the champs next season.  To me that would be worth doing. 

OTBC

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[quote]What makes you so sure? He has''nt come out and said his staying has he? Which says to me that if the right club comes in with a decent enough offer he might go.[/quote]

sorry, jimbo  but he has, at a public meeting for norwich fans, organised by NCISA last month, he said he would stay, even if we were relegated, so for that matter did leon

 

so stop worrying 

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I think Greeno failed to take the strides expected of him this season. While his shot-stopping is superb (that tip on to the bar at Fulham was impossible), he doesn''t command his box or his defence well enough for the big boys to be interested in him yet and I fear (for his sake and ours) that he will end up going to a second-rate Prem club for a disappointing fee.

But I think he will be a huge loss. The value of that Stoke save was proved by how fast Flem and Drury ran up to him at the final whistle (if only Flem had moved that quick at any point during last season). I remember reading in the West Ham programme (the day the new stand opened) that, while we were clear at the top of the league, we had had the same number of shots on target against us as we had managed at the other end ourselves. That says everything about Greeno''s influence.

I still can''t quite find the words to express how livid I am with Francis''s performance on the last day. I''m convinced he''s going to Charlton, because I thought he substantially raised his game that day. If that''s how it turns out, then it will leave a very sour taste - I certainly got the impression against Fulham that most of the team were playing for their premiership futures, but Francis played like a man assured of his.

If Ashton stays, we are among the favourites for promotion. If he goes, we are back in the pack. Simple as that.

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One of my friends saw Ashton in a pub the other night and he said that he was happy here and wanted to stay but if Norwich want to sell then he will look at the offer on the table given to him.

So reject every offer Worthy!!!

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