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urdie_Canary

Wigan have had a bid rejected for Holt ....

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[quote user="Jonzey"]I second Morty''s sigh. The Holt debate has been done to death over the last month on here. The result was if you want him to leave then you''re just wrong.[/quote]

 

Well said that man!!! [Y] [Y] [Y]

 

Pity most of the "noisier" outers don''t understand team dynamics and leadership.

 

I will add another "sigh" to the growing list .....

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"][quote user="BroadstairsR"]I don''t think it''s 80% Hogesar. They''re just the noisier ones.[/quote]
I think it''s fair to say that there''s also some of us who accept that all players, no matter how good they once were have a ''sell by date'', and what some of us are thinking is that Holt may well be getting extremely close to his.

My concern is that Holt clearly wasn''t happy for large parts of last season, he didn''t like the formation and style of play, he didn''t like being on the bench and this badly showed in a number of games where his attitude was shocking (admittedly it was much better in the final two games).

This season he''s likely to spend a large chunk of his time on the bench unless RVW gets injured or has a complete disaster, not to mention that there''s been ZERO indication that Hughton wants to move away from his preferred setup meaning Holt would again potentially be asked to play a role that he doesn''t like or really excel in.

With all that in mind, we aren''t going to be getting the full benefit of the guy who was instrumental in getting us promoted and keeping us here, we''d likely be getting the frustrated guy in a role he doesn''t like, who''s a year older and up against much better competition for a starting place, and it''s because of this that a move may be the best option.

We get the money to invest in a newer version of Holt (or in another position we need), he leaves as a club legend whilst still being able to continue playing at a good level before he retires (whenever that may be). Wigan are much closer to home for him, will give him first team football, and we all know how capable he is in the Championship (not to mention his debut Prem season) and he could help them come back up.

Could Holt still do a job for us - absolutely, but that doesn''t mean that we should stick our fingers in our ears and start shouting "La la la, not listening, La la la", when a sensible offer is made for a player who''s likely to have a diminishing level of involvement and impact over the next season or two...
[/quote]

 

But that''s the problem.  £2-£3m for me is not a sensible offer for Holt.  Yes on the face of it that money for a player of Holt''s age, whose value isn''t going to increase and who scored 8 goals last season to an outsider may seem like a decent offer on the face of it.  But Holt offers so much more than that. 

 

It''s a shame that some fans do not seem to realise this.  Forgetting he was the leading scorer (again), without Holt in the team, the squad, the dressing room, the club, we would be significantly worse off.

 

We aren''t desperate for £2m and as others have said, his experience of English football will be invaluable to the new strikers coming in and I believe despite quite a few complaining about his attitude last season, I cannot think of one better person for the job of helping new players settle.

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I wonder what they offered? If they follow the McN approach, I suspect that it was too low, and there may be a further bid.

 

The logic may have been, "Holt has been quoted as wanting to go north. We''re only two hours away from Carlisle, let''s see if we can get a real bargain. If it doesn''t work out, if he is really past it perhaps he can do enough to get us promoted. If we can keep the cost down, there''s not much risk."

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Grant Holt may only be worth £3-4M in the transfer market, but he''s worth much more that to us.He''s our heartbeat and leader, we look a completly different side without him. I really hope he ends his playing days with us and stays on in some capacity. Doubtful as I know he want to be back home.

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[quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]If we were to get a bid that enabled us to buy half of a younger model (Hooper or Toivonen or whoever) we should accept it.[/quote]

PurpleCanary,

Could you please refrain from posting in Ipswich Blue.

Thank you.

Tangy[/quote]

Well said.

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[quote user="urdie_Canary"]He wont be here next season, hes brought a house in Carlise already.
[/quote]

This is the player who said that when his playing days are over he will retire back to his home town Carlisle. He further said that the house he has bought was liked by his wife over 3 years ago but only recently came on the market so he bought it. Finally his wife has moved into this home with his 3 young daughters so that they do not have to move school when he retires from the game.

If you see that scenario as meaning he is about to leave NCFC well jolly good for you.

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[quote user="Wings of a Sparrow"]Why does no-one ever consider what Grant Holt himself may want?[/quote]

Grant Holt was on Radio Cumbria for half an hour the other day on their football programme.  I wasn''t going to mention it on here as the talk was mainly about Carlisle which as we know is the club he was brought up with.   But the message was loud and clear - he said several times that family is more important than anything and that decisions about football are made harder because of that.    

The impression I get - and it is only an impression - is that he wants to stay at Norwich, but if he wasn''t wanted at Norwich then he has to look after himself - hence the agent appearing to be active.   The scenario is simple.    Clubs come in and make offers - if  Norwich refuse the offers it means they want Grant Holt to stay at Norwich - and that is all he needs to hear.      If a club comes in with an offer they can''t refuse  (maybe £5m +), it means the club does well (transfer money) GH does well because he moves north (presumably), with a good pay rise and everyone is happy.     So Holty could be happy either way.  

No player is a permanent fixture - GH is a hero at our club and long may that continue - and it will continue as long as the club want him - but life moves on and if he does go - he should go with all our blessing.     

In short, it is up to the club, not Grant Holt, whether he stays or not.  He knows that and the club know that.  He wants to move north at some stage, as we all know - but it doesn''t have to be yet.  

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[quote user="Dubai Mark"]I''m with Bury Yellow on this and am getting very tired of the anti Holt brigade to be honest![/quote]Mark,What I think you, and many other posters are missing here is that people like myself aren''t "Anti-Holt", he''s been a GREAT player and genuinely deserves the LEGEND title that he''s acheived, but all good things must come to an end eventually and some of us think that this point is sooner rather than later in Holts case.If he stays then I''ll be perfectly happy (assuming he''s happy and plays with full commitment) - a sentiment that someone with an "Anti-Holt" view wouldn''t support, but at the same time if we get a good offer and Holt is happy to move, then I''d be perfectly happy with that as well.I appreciate that he brings more to the table than just his ability on the pitch, but if we also assume that he is going to get less and less match time to use that ability (based on CH''s preferred setup and the RVW signing), then more and more of the wages we pay goes on what basically amounts to ''motivational speaking'', i.e. his input in the dressing room, training ground, bench and coach, and I don''t see how we can really justify 30k+ a week for that alone...can you?Also assuming that the 30k per week figure is in the right ball park, that would also be a saving of around 3mil in wages, on top of any transfer fee - in exchange for an aging player who''s likely main job for the next season is going to be boosting morale around the club and helping new players settle in...doesn''t sound that silly to me tbh.These situations are never black and white, but it''s arguably nothing more than short-sightedness to not consider a genuine offer and what this could provide us not just at this point - but over the next year or two, and if the sale of Holt meant another player of RVW''s calibre coming in, then surely we''d be mad to not even think about it???

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[quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]If we were to get a bid that enabled us to buy half of a younger model (Hooper or Toivonen or whoever) we should accept it.[/quote]

PurpleCanary,

Could you please refrain from posting in Ipswich Blue.

Thank you.

Tangy[/quote]

Well said.

[/quote]

 

I am heartened to see that the only thing Tangible and lapps find objectionable about my post is the colour! Obviously they agree with the sentiment expressed. If two such can find common ground on such a divisive issue then perhaps there is hope for a Mideast peace deal after all.

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="lappinitup"][quote user="Tangible Fixed Assets anyone"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]If we were to get a bid that enabled us to buy half of a younger model (Hooper or Toivonen or whoever) we should accept it.[/quote]

PurpleCanary,

Could you please refrain from posting in Ipswich Blue.

Thank you.

Tangy[/quote]

Well said.[/quote]

 

I am heartened to see that the only thing Tangible and lapps find objectionable about my post is the colour! Obviously they agree with the sentiment expressed. If two such can find common ground on such a divisive issue then perhaps there is hope for a Mideast peace deal after all.

[/quote]I have no problem with whatever colour you chose to use Purps. I simply remarked on what Tangy said, he said well. [H]

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Am I the only one that thinks this is win-win?I''m not in the pro or anti Holt leaving camp. I just think that this is a no-lose situation for us.If Holt wants to stay and fight for his place, then awesome. The guy deserves that chance with the great years he''s had at the club.However he may want to go elsewhere for money, first team football, family, whatever. If that''s the case, then we have people interested who will pay for our asset. We can use to further strengthen, and it will be thanks for the memories Grant. You were amazing.I think it''s up to Holt what he wants to do, providing our valuation is met. Either way, I don''t think we can lose.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"]Am I the only one that thinks this is win-win?I''m not in the pro or anti Holt leaving camp. I just think that this is a no-lose situation for us.If Holt wants to stay and fight for his place, then awesome. The guy deserves that chance with the great years he''s had at the club.However he may want to go elsewhere for money, first team football, family, whatever. If that''s the case, then we have people interested who will pay for our asset. We can use to further strengthen, and it will be thanks for the memories Grant. You were amazing.I think it''s up to Holt what he wants to do, providing our valuation is met. Either way, I don''t think we can lose.[/quote]
Unless he''s sold to another team in the PL and scores a decisive goal against us.  Then the mother of all wars will break out on here.

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[quote user="The ghost of Michael Theoklitos"] I think it''s up to Holt what he wants to do, providing our valuation is met. Either way, I don''t think we can lose.[/quote]

I see it the other way round - I see it as it being up to the club.  Holt will go if the club want to sell him.  If they want to keep him,  they will.  Holt will be happy either way - he either stays at a great club or moves nearer home.  You''re right, its a win - win, but for Holt.      If the club feel they have to sell him because they receive such a good offer (£5m +) it will be a win win for them too.  Any other scenario - like accepting  £2 or £3m, for instance  - would not be worth it.No-one will bid more than £2 or £3 million.  Therefore imo he will stay.  

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[quote user="The Pink un Role Model"]Unless he''s sold to another team in the PL and scores a decisive goal against us.  Then the mother of all wars will break out on here.[/quote]If a single goal from Holt against us decided the season, we should be questioning WTF we were doing in the other 37 games rather than lamenting the sale of a player to another club who''s then happened to score against us and blaming this for the failure of the season...

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It would make me sad to see Holt scoring goals for another team in England, unless it is for Carlisle in a couple of years.

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[quote user="Jonzey"]

I second Morty''s sigh. The Holt debate has been done to death over the last month on here. The result was if you want him to leave then you''re just wrong.

[/quote]

 

1,000,000 times this.

 

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