Dead Wood

[The Great Mass Debater 1,073]

A rather harsh title to the post but lets be honest.

Hughton has got rid of a lot of what he obviously considered dead wood since taking over as manager.

Nevertheless, we still have a few players whom you would probably also consider dead wood.

What now for the futures of David Fox, Leon Barnett, Andrew Surman?

Out have gone the strikers, and players like Lappin, Tierney and Korey.

Hughton has shown no signs he favours Fox, Barney or Surman, yet they remain. Why do we think this is so?

Is he uncecided yet, does he think they are good squad players, with perhaps the right attitude to not kick up a fuss about lack of games? Do they refuse to move on? Are we waiting on interest or the right move?

Barney seemed odds on to be moving to Cardiff not too long ago, not really sure what happened there.

Hughton has been pretty ruthless wielding the axe, despite his nice guy act, so I am surprised these three remain. Only a matter of time or does he have a role for them?

[Syteanric 1]

probably to hit the "home grown" quota rule with barney and fox.Surman is south African but we still need bodies to cover injuries etc.

[lincoln canary (& Golden Coppel) 0]

Surman is certainly not dead wood. He is a very good squad player who should definately be kept.

[Yellow Wal 314]

So many people forget that Surman was injured for a long while last season.

Certainly not deadwood.

[Joanna Grey 0]

Surman will not get a PL game this season. Whatever formation CH plays there are several players that are in front of him.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,073]

My question with Surman is where do you play him? As he doesnt seem to fit in thats why I would consider him dead wood.

He doesnt have the pace to be a winger, he doesnt have the defensive qualities to play left midfield in this league (ie to provide protection to the full back rather than offering an attacking outlet - think this might be Olssons role inthe side more often that not like we used to use Ryan Bertrand in front of Drury). He doesnt have the strength to play central midfield. He would probably be best used behind the striker in the Lallana role, but have we ever actually seen him play there.

Surman seemed to fit in very well as the left side of the diamond in the wingless wonders system. The team and the tactics have changed and I dont see how best to utilise Surmans talents. For that reason I consider him deadwood

[Yellow Wal 314]

My initial response was that he was not dead wood. But after considering the players that we have now acquired, and are looking to acquire, I believe my initial response was based on the fact that I always liked his play and that people forgot of his injuries last season.

We have moved on.

As such I will say that, after looking at things more deeply, I believe he will indeed start few, if any games this season.

To call him dead wood seems harsh and I would certainly put him above Fox, Ayala or Barnett.

He could be a good player in the Championship.

A more interesting question ......... do you feel Hoolahan will start as many games this season or have we moved past him as well?

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Always room for Wes, maybe as quag s no. 2 Barnett, we are probs waiting to land Alderweireld and Fox I would assume we are waiting on fer.

[spencer 1970 207]

I agree with TGMD, as although Surman is a decent player we have moved on from where we were 2 or 3 seasons ago and he''d not dynamic enough (like Wessi or Pilks) to give us that something extra in one of the mid/left/ss positions.

Although regardless of his SA birth, he''s registered as home grown as has been in the UK since he was a kid.

these are our current HG players.

1. John Ruddy Goalkeeper

2. Russell Martin Defender

4. Bradley Johnson Midfielder

6. Michael Turner Defender

8. Jonathan Howson Midfielder

11. Andrew Surman Midfielder

12. Anthony Pilkington Midfielder

15. David Fox Midfielder

17. Elliott Bennett Midfielder

20. Leon Barnett Defender

21. Jacob Butterfield Midfielder

24. Ryan Bennett Defender

28. Mark Bunn Goalkeeper

- Carlo Nash Goalkeeper

+We have Redmond and Murphy(s) in the U21 bracket.

You can probably add Butterfield to that list as it looks as though the move to us hasn''t worked for him OR us. He hardly dazzled on loan back in the Champs either.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,073]

Butterfield is definitely an interesting one. Initially I thought he was a Hughton signing, but many on here believe the wheels were in motion when Lambert left, and so probably represents a Lambert signing - hard to know. Certainly would seem dead wood based on last season, but perhaps last season was always written off in the coaches mind due to the injury and their plans are much more long term with him.

In answer to the Hoolahan question, I think Hughton might be seeking to resolve the ''Hoolahan Conundrum''. At present he is our most creative and dynamic player, and although his defensive efforts and work rate are highly admirable, Wes is an unbalanced player, Playing him is always a double edged sword and we have always had to limit the team in some areas in order to accomodate him, which has generally worked in our favour - I think we''re much better with Wes than without, but I think if Hughton is looking at Toivonen and Quagliarella, he is looking to move beyond Wes

[king canary 7,558]

I still see Wes playing a part, maybe a few more bench appearances but still a great player to test tired defences. Re Surman I just don''t see where he fits in this season- looks to be third choice in every position he can play.

[Salopian 1]

Barnett will surely go, in the judgement of virtually everyone. He is capable to doing well, and has good pace, but his concentration can waver at important times. This is not ideal for a centre back.

 

Fox was little used last season, which suggests that CH doesn''t rate him, and with Olsson in the hutch, and the prospect of Fer....

 

Surman is the one difficult to predict. He didn''t play much last season, partly due to the concentration on defence but also due to a serious injury. CH has shown that he appreciates the player, so I cannot predict what will happen.

[kingsway 94]

Don''t see where the likes of Fox and Surman are going to fit in!

 

Neither featured hardly at all last season, albeit injury curtailed alot of Surmans campaign and only look like bottom end Premiership players at best which now coming up to our 3rd consecutive top flight season, we should be looking to move away from!

[Juggy 0]

If we manage to sign a centre mid or two and a centre back then Fox and Barnett will probably be off this summer, unless they want to sit out their contracts, should imagine they will at least be going out on loan. Neither are Premier League standard, but both excellent Championship players, and I''d like to think we could manage to get half a million each for them.

Surman is a slightly different. I don''t rate him at this level but others do. We have no idea whether Hughton does or not, because he''s always out injured. I''d personally add him to the ''dead wood'' category and can''t see how or where he is going to get minutes on the pitch. Butterfield is a strange one. 

Daniel Ayala is another who just isn''t cut out for this level and needs to move on. 

[Monty13 2,229]

"Surman will not get a PL game this season. Whatever formation CH plays there are several players that are in front of him."

Assuming he stays I''ll take that bet Joanna. I can''t see him being part of the squad and not tried once, even as a sub, in 38 games.

I think Surman gets a bit of a raw deal from some posters, he was out pretty much the entirety of last season because of injury and Hughton was quoted as rating him.

I''m not sure why he is seen as a player who can only play on the left of the diamond? He can play on the left side of a midfield 3 or on the left side of a 442, you don''t have to be an out and out winger to play left midfield.

The very reason I think Surman will stay is because he offers something different, he doesn''t hug the touchline, he makes roving runs into the box and switches inside. He''s clever player with an eye for goal and a pass and, while I would admit one we probably need to upgrade on, I don''t think we have yet.

[Juggy 0]

[quote user="Monty13"]"Surman will not get a PL game this season. Whatever formation CH plays there are several players that are in front of him."

Assuming he stays I''ll take that bet Joanna. I can''t see him being part of the squad and not tried once, even as a sub, in 38 games.

I think Surman gets a bit of a raw deal from some posters, he was out pretty much the entirety of last season because of injury and Hughton was quoted as rating him.

I''m not sure why he is seen as a player who can only play on the left of the diamond? He can play on the left side of a midfield 3 or on the left side of a 442, you don''t have to be an out and out winger to play left midfield.

The very reason I think Surman will stay is because he offers something different, he doesn''t hug the touchline, he makes roving runs into the box and switches inside. He''s clever player with an eye for goal and a pass and, while I would admit one we probably need to upgrade on, I don''t think we have yet.[/quote]

The big question is whether we will need a player who can play left midfield when we now have Redmond and Olsson (who can play left mid, and has done for both Blackburn and Sweden). If Van Wolfswinkel is to be believed then Hughton also wants another winger, who could well be a left mid. 

By the time we have signed Fer, an attacking centre mid, and potentially another winger, I just can''t see where Surman will get minutes in the Premier League. Cup maybe.

[Canaries Utd 0]

Get rid of Fox and Surman, both on premiership wages, when aren''t premiership players... in my opinion (that''s what this forums for).

[Indy_Bones 441]

I have to echo the sentiments around Surman tbh.Good player with strong passing ability, but he just doesn''t fit in with our current system or style of play.His best chance would be to re-invent himself as a Fox type player more centrally, but even then I don''t think he''d be chosen ahead of people like Howson or Tettey.If we can get a good price for him then I''d bid him farewell.